78 replies to this topic

[Spheroid]

I revised my initial build with endo and a larger engine. My results are better than my initial day one build. I am still evaluating.

[MechaBattler]

The only things that would make it viable would be them reducing it's width. And then moving the hard points up on the shoulders. Then it might be meta. A slow meta. But at least it could poke over ridges. But I imagine if they did that. They'd probably take away the quirks.

Edited by MechaBattler, 18 October 2018 - 09:16 AM.

[Nightbird]

It's OP and will be nerfed.

[Viking Yelling]

Nightbird, on 18 October 2018 - 09:20 AM, said:

It's OP and will be nerfed.

lol, 30 tons and 12 slots for 45 points of damage with a 5 second cycle. I mean, that's not even that great considering 9 ERML would be technically better without a Hardpoint or GH restriction.

[Eisenhorne]

Viking Yelling, on 18 October 2018 - 09:42 AM, said:

lol, 30 tons and 12 slots for 45 points of damage with a 5 second cycle. I mean, that's not even that great considering 9 ERML would be technically better without a Hardpoint or GH restriction.

If you truly don't understand why 3 HPPC is better than 9 ERML if neither had ghost heat or hardpoint restrictions, then you need to spend some time getting more experience using both weapon systems.

[Snowbluff]

FupDup, on 18 October 2018 - 05:25 AM, said:

Or dual HPPC with some Medium Pulses or something to cover your min range.

I rand my Blackwidow wit h2 HPPC, 4 LMG, and 2 MPL so I had some closer range damage.

Edited by Snowbluff, 18 October 2018 - 09:56 AM.

[Nightbird]

The days of PPFLD at mid-long range is over. Every combination is limited at about 30, 35 if you include dual heavy gauss. PGI will not allow a big jump to 45, just give it up.

[Eisenhorne]

Nightbird, on 18 October 2018 - 09:59 AM, said:

The days of PPFLD at mid-long range is over. Every combination is limited at about 30, 35 if you include dual heavy gauss. PGI will not allow a big jump to 45, just give it up.

Well, except in the Nightstar... it can do 45 PPFLD at gauss rifle ranges. I'm gonna have to get one of those to try it out.

* edit - 40 PPFLD apparently, only gauss + erppc, not gauss + hppc.

Edited by Eisenhorne, 18 October 2018 - 10:09 AM.

[FupDup]

Snowbluff, on 18 October 2018 - 09:56 AM, said:

I rand my Blackwidow wit h2 HPPC, 4 LMG, and 2 MPL so I had some closer range damage.

Would make more sense to use normal MGs for the DPS.

[Tesunie]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 October 2018 - 12:13 AM, said:

Even with -30.5% heat gen and 0.242 dissipation per sink after quirks and skills, it's still not enough for 19 DHS to cool 3x HPPC.

Lul.

Rather than try it with the old standard of DHS, have you tried it with SHS? I managed to get mine up to ~26 SHS, a heat efficiency of 0.06 worse than with DHS, but with a higher threshold enough to be able to alpha three times before needing to cool down rather than two (on Tourmaline testing grounds). (Oh, and it also has two MLs for that 90m mini.)
A>0802L1|Lg|h^|h^pl0|H@|h^|h^|h^|h^|h^|Y?ql0|H@|H@|h^|h^r50|h^|h^s50|h^t41|h^|h^u41|h^|h^vB0|Y?w808080

I will mention I have not yet tried the build in live combat, mostly because of Champion... and with the new changes there may be a more optimized way of doing this... Just was a quick throw together to compare things with the "new" Awesome.

[Nightbird]

Eisenhorne, on 18 October 2018 - 10:06 AM, said:

Well, except in the Nightstar... it can do 45 PPFLD at gauss rifle ranges. I'm gonna have to get one of those to try it out.

* edit - 40 PPFLD apparently, only gauss + erppc, not gauss + hppc.

Not quite enough to drive that piece of **** though but good point.

I'm gonna buy an Awesome just to do 3HPPCs with the expectation that it'll be nerfed next patch.

[Daurock]

Eisenhorne, on 18 October 2018 - 10:06 AM, said:

Well, except in the Nightstar... it can do 45 PPFLD at gauss rifle ranges. I'm gonna have to get one of those to try it out.

* edit - 40 PPFLD apparently, only gauss + erppc, not gauss + hppc.

Twin AC10, + twin PPC (or 1 PPC/1 HPPC for 45 PPFLD) also is a thing, has worked reasonably well for a long time, and works for a variety of mechs. People forget that, mostly because most of the same mechs that mount that particular build can also mount twin H-Gauss, overshadowing it.

45 ranged PPFLD from 500ish is certainly available outside of the awesome, if one is creative.

Edited by Daurock, 18 October 2018 - 10:25 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Tesunie, on 18 October 2018 - 10:10 AM, said:

Rather than try it with the old standard of DHS, have you tried it with SHS? I managed to get mine up to ~26 SHS, a heat efficiency of 0.06 worse than with DHS, but with a higher threshold enough to be able to alpha three times before needing to cool down rather than two (on Tourmaline testing grounds). (Oh, and it also has two MLs for that 90m mini.)
A>0802L1|Lg|h^|h^pl0|H@|h^|h^|h^|h^|h^|Y?ql0|H@|H@|h^|h^r50|h^|h^s50|h^t41|h^|h^u41|h^|h^vB0|Y?w808080

I will mention I have not yet tried the build in live combat, mostly because of Champion... and with the new changes there may be a more optimized way of doing this... Just was a quick throw together to compare things with the "new" Awesome.

It's not a threshold issue, it's an issue with continuing to sustain fire once capped. I don't care if I can fire two shots in quick succession, I care about how long it takes to get the third, fourth, fifth shots out.

Poke and fade with big damage and high heat is basically dead...has been for most of the year. Triple HPPC is modest damage for high heat, so...

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 18 October 2018 - 10:18 AM.

[Eisenhorne]

Daurock, on 18 October 2018 - 10:15 AM, said:

Twin AC10, + twin PPC (or 1 PPC/1 HPPC for 45 PPFLD) also is a thing, has worked reasonably well for a long time, and works for a variety of mechs. People forget that, mostly because most of the same mechs that mount that particular build can also mount twin Gauss, overshadowing it.

What mechs can actually mount twin AC10 + twin PPC though? That's a super heavy loadout for IS, I think you'd need like a Mauler to pull that off.

Yeonne Greene, on 18 October 2018 - 10:16 AM, said:

It's not a threshold issue, it's an issue with continuing to sustain fire once capped. I don't care if I can fire two shots in quick succession, I care about how long it takes to get the third, fourth, fifth shots out.

Poke and fade with big damage and high heat is basically dead...has been for most of the year. Triple HPPC is modest damage for high heat, so...

My 3 HPPC AWS-8Q can alpha strike 3 times in a row, without any issue. It can get the fourth alpha off with a short wait (or can fire 2 HPPC on the 4th volley). No medium lasers, just HPPC's.

[Tesunie]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 October 2018 - 10:16 AM, said:

It's not a threshold issue, it's an issue with continuing to sustain fire once capped. I don't care if I can fire two shots in quick succession, I care about how long it takes to get the third, fourth, fifth shots out.

Poke and fade with big damage and high heat is basically dead...has been for most of the year. Triple HPPC is modest damage for high heat, so...

I was about to edit my original post when I made the 19 DHS build... The 19 DHS build (on Tourmaline) still gets only two alphas before shut down, where as SHS can get three. It does have a better heat efficiency (1.5ish? vs 1.3), but I feel the SHS seemed to perform better in my testing.


And, I'm not sure where you are going from with "Poke and fade with big damage and high heat is basically dead...has been for most of the year" when that's one of the biggest and most common metas I've been seeing. So I'm a little confused about your statement here...

Anyway, I'm just comparing the DHS Awesome vs the SHS Awesome with as similar of builds as possible. All I was doing here.

Daurock, on 18 October 2018 - 10:15 AM, said:

Twin AC10, + twin PPC (or 1 PPC/1 HPPC for 45 PPFLD) also is a thing, has worked reasonably well for a long time, and works for a variety of mechs. People forget that, mostly because most of the same mechs that mount that particular build can also mount twin H-Gauss, overshadowing it.

45 ranged PPFLD from 500ish is certainly available outside of the awesome, if one is creative.

Maybe not that high of an Alpha, but my Uziel has been enjoying an AC10 and dual LPPC build for some time now (with JJ). Mixing PPCs and AC10s works well in my experience. (Not to say something else might not work better, but just saying it works well as a weapon combo.)

[Y E O N N E]

Eisenhorne, on 18 October 2018 - 10:20 AM, said:

What mechs can actually mount twin AC10 + twin PPC though? That's a super heavy loadout for IS, I think you'd need like a Mauler to pull that off.

Mauler
Nightstar (9S is best)
Fafnir (5B is best)
Victor (Hooot)
Cyclops (Slepnir, also spicy)
Annihilator (y tho)

[Daurock]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 October 2018 - 10:25 AM, said:

Mauler
Nightstar (9S is best)
Fafnir (5B is best)
Victor (Hooot)
Cyclops (Slepnir, also spicy)
Annihilator (y tho)

You can also pull off 40 from an ancient-but-heatsink-revived Warhammer build, or 35 from a Catapult.

[Eisenhorne]

Daurock, on 18 October 2018 - 10:32 AM, said:

You can also pull off 40 from an ancient-but-heatsink-revived Warhammer build, or 35 from a Catapult.

Good lord that warhammer is hot, slow, and drastically under-armored.

[Y E O N N E]

Daurock, on 18 October 2018 - 10:32 AM, said:

You can also pull off 40 from an ancient-but-heatsink-revived Warhammer build, or 35 from a Catapult.

You would be better served there using a pair of HPPC and an AC/10 to save yourself 6 tons.

[Daurock]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 October 2018 - 10:35 AM, said:

You would be better served there using a pair of HPPC and an AC/10 to save yourself 6 tons.

With the new changes, possibly. I remember trying that particular variation a couple patches ago, and found that the extra heat load by the HPPCs torched the sustainability to uncomfortable levels, even with a few extra heatsinks loaded up. It's probably worth investigating though, I agree, as if that same memory serves, it could fit in a bigger engine too.

Edited by Daurock, 18 October 2018 - 10:46 AM.