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Triple Hppc Awesome Is A Disappointing Novelty


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#41 BumbaCLot

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 10:58 AM

View PostrazenWing, on 18 October 2018 - 05:28 AM, said:

sounds like a lot of people are trying to hide their "secret" from being corrected by PGI

I saw Juju played 2 days ago before the patch. 3 HPPC spike to 40%. Are you god damn kidding me? First of all, your 80 Alpha laz vom mech is useless unless you are staring at someone (or have the steadiest hand in the world). So we are talking about 2.5 cycles of HPPC PINPOINT to shut an awesome down.

Rather than self-pity because you can't aim with a projectile weapon, this mech in the hands of great pilots (damn it, juju included) does wonder. You can constantly move (and movement = damage reduction) while launching pinpoint alphas all the time. If you are expecting PPC mechs to cool off like other mechs, well, such a thing don't exist anyways. But compare to other PPC mech, 3 HPPC at 40% only is NOT an advantage? Are you kidding me?

"O the bugged awesome is still not as good as a deathstrike"
No kidding genius, but if a deathstrike carries 3 ERPPC, it will suck a lot more, so what's really your point here?



Except the argument isn't whether ERPPC is a better weapon than HPPC. It's 3 HPPC is bugged. I am fairly sure you can't fire 3 ERPPC on the awesome without shutting down. You can with 3 HPPC.

Steady hands? Are you one of the vets who still hasn't learned that the default 1 mouse sensitivity should be at .15-2 for most mice?

#42 Snowbluff

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 11:16 AM

View PostFupDup, on 18 October 2018 - 10:07 AM, said:

Would make more sense to use normal MGs for the DPS.

Yeah probably. I spent most of my range closer to MPL range than MG range though.

This is making want to play again but I've been so busy. x.x

#43 LordBraxton

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 12:01 PM

IMO 80 tonners should count as heavies as far as matchmaking, none of them are worth the assault slot they take up

#44 FupDup

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 12:02 PM

View PostLordBraxton, on 18 October 2018 - 12:01 PM, said:

IMO 80 tonners should count as heavies as far as matchmaking, none of them are worth the assault slot they take up

The Whammy IIC will probably change that.

#45 Bombast

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 01:20 PM

View PostBud Crue, on 18 October 2018 - 03:28 AM, said:

Chris has repeatedly said that such build defining, and player choice removing, quirks must not be allowed as they represent “barriers to entry” for players. Chis will not let such a quirk stand for long. So enjoy it while it lasts, however mediocre its benefits are.


Yup. Fun is a barrier to entry. Sounds about right.

#46 Extra Guac

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 01:48 PM

3HPPC should wreck face on Frozen City. Not quite enough range for Polar or Alpine imo. Too hot for most other maps. I could see it working pretty well on Forest Colony and River City.

#47 Viking Yelling

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 02:09 PM

View PostEisenhorne, on 18 October 2018 - 09:55 AM, said:



If you truly don't understand why 3 HPPC is better than 9 ERML if neither had ghost heat or hardpoint restrictions, then you need to spend some time getting more experience using both weapon systems.

I stay out of the Meta loop, so unless you want to explain PPFLD to me or what your talking about, that was rather rude.

but to recap:
3 less slots
20 less tons
.1 more cycle time
More range
ECM disable
Pinpoint damage

Am I missing the point?
Cause you know, instead of taking your time to make a post to passively insult me, you could have just said why.

Dont get me wrong, 3x Hppc should probably get adjusted to being just PPC, but as far as curve goes It's competing with dual heavy Gauss for the exact same tonnage with heat dissipation restrictions. So yeah. Not like Dual Heavy Gauss isn't OP or anything....

Edited by Viking Yelling, 18 October 2018 - 02:14 PM.


#48 Moldur

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 02:21 PM

At some point, you can't fix a mech. If you turned the Awesome into the perfect mech, e.g. changed geometry, hardpoints, stance, quirks, etc... well, then it would just be a different mech.

#49 Eisenhorne

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 02:52 PM

View PostViking Yelling, on 18 October 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

I stay out of the Meta loop, so unless you want to explain PPFLD to me or what your talking about, that was rather rude.

but to recap:
3 less slots
20 less tons
.1 more cycle time
More range
ECM disable
Pinpoint damage

Am I missing the point?
Cause you know, instead of taking your time to make a post to passively insult me, you could have just said why.

Dont get me wrong, 3x Hppc should probably get adjusted to being just PPC, but as far as curve goes It's competing with dual heavy Gauss for the exact same tonnage with heat dissipation restrictions. So yeah. Not like Dual Heavy Gauss isn't OP or anything....


You listed attributes of both weapons in your list, so I'm not sure what you're getting at exactly, but sure, here's why HPPC's are better.

1) Significantly better range. They will hit hard up to 700-800 meters, far better than the 400-500 ERML cap out at. That's a massive advantage in and of itself.

2) Pinpoint damage. This is huge, because unlike medium lasers, you don't have to hold on a target to get all your damage on a single component. Light mechs are easy to kill with pinpoint damage, but notoriously hard to hold a laser burn on for very long unless they foolishly run in a straight line. A single plink from 3 HPPC will cripple if not outright kill most light mechs.

3) Front loaded damage. Another huge factor. IS ERML have a duration of .9 seconds... so you have to hold the burn on a target for that long. Also, humans aren't super fast with the reaction time, so to actually get that damage off, you need to have your cursor follow the enemy mech, pull the trigger, wait for the burn to finish completely, then turn back to cover. The human delay between any of those actions can be a fraction of a second up to a second, depending on how fast you are. So to fire off those ERML's, you need to stay exposed for a solid 2-3 seconds longer than you'd need to with HPPC's, maybe longer, in order to try to get pinpoint damage out of ERML's.

#50 Y E O N N E

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 04:30 PM

View PostEisenhorne, on 18 October 2018 - 10:22 AM, said:

My 3 HPPC AWS-8Q can alpha strike 3 times in a row, without any issue. It can get the fourth alpha off with a short wait (or can fire 2 HPPC on the 4th volley). No medium lasers, just HPPC's.


Sure, the exact number before cap isn't really my concern. I would just rather take 6 seconds to cool off enough from 99% to fire again than 7. If I'm fully engaged, that's going to feel pretty substantial.

#51 Tesunie

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 04:41 PM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 18 October 2018 - 04:30 PM, said:


Sure, the exact number before cap isn't really my concern. I would just rather take 6 seconds to cool off enough from 99% to fire again than 7. If I'm fully engaged, that's going to feel pretty substantial.


That can be substantial, but so can getting one more alpha off without having to wait for any cool off (threshold).

It's situational. If one more alpha could/does drop a target, then it might be better than waiting one less second to cool off enough to shoot again. Especially if they kill you before you could cool off to get that shot.

It's all a matter of preference. There are merits for taking it either way really.

#52 Y E O N N E

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 04:44 PM

View PostTesunie, on 18 October 2018 - 04:41 PM, said:

It's all a matter of preference. There are merits for taking it either way really.


True.

At the end of the day, it is merely a ~1 DPS difference.

#53 Gloris

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 10:50 AM

I Always fancied that chassi, it was my first buy in Mwo..and my first Huge disappointment.
The awesome really should get some flavor text to prevent newbies from falling into a trap. Like:

AWESOME*
*Name not representative of the final product.

#54 East Indy

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 12:19 PM

I have 200+ drops in the 8Q. The mid-2015 days of megaquirks were better to my memory, but this Heat Scale shift is nice -- especially as revisitation of chassis flavor.

There's no mystery in my mind why, though, this will only have niche appeal. (Clan) lasers still have far lower opportunity costs than PPCs: no leading, targeting recovery, higher boat potential.

The Awesome, for it part, is as we know Spongebob shooting from the hip. If compensatory armor is still a thing, the 'Mech needs it, particularly for side torsos. A higher engine cap -- as uncharacteristically as that sounds -- would also help, as most AWS quickly run out of space and weight depending on how you try to build.

#55 DrxAbstract

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 01:52 PM

View PostKhobai, on 18 October 2018 - 05:23 AM, said:

why would you even play a triple HPPC awesome

youre better off with triple ERPPC because no min range


Not sure what magic people see in the 3xHPPC build, because I built it in Smurfy and immediately swapped the HPPCs for ERPPCs, switched to a 300STD engine with 4 more DHS. Twice the max effective range, no min range, lower heat spike and faster dissipation for 15 less pts of dmg... Fair trade, considering you won't be hamstrung by the heat or min range if you have to defend yourself from a face hugger. Is it ubermech? No. It's fun to plink the clan Gauss/ac2 boat snipers on frozen city from across the ravine without shutting down after the 2nd shot.

#56 RickySpanish

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 02:28 PM

View PostJeffrey Dahmer The People Nommer, on 19 October 2018 - 01:52 PM, said:


Not sure what magic people see in the 3xHPPC build, because I built it in Smurfy and immediately swapped the HPPCs for ERPPCs, switched to a 300STD engine with 4 more DHS. Twice the max effective range, no min range, lower heat spike and faster dissipation for 15 less pts of dmg... Fair trade, considering you won't be hamstrung by the heat or min range if you have to defend yourself from a face hugger. Is it ubermech? No. It's fun to plink the clan Gauss/ac2 boat snipers on frozen city from across the ravine without shutting down after the 2nd shot.


That's the build I tried, but imo the Warhawk does it better with a somewhat more compact profile.

#57 N a p e s

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 02:31 PM

Like East Indy said, just bumping up the max engine (even just to 325) would be nice. Thats one extra HS slot in the engine but it keeps the 9M as being the fast AWS.

#58 Tesunie

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 02:34 PM

View PostJeffrey Dahmer The People Nommer, on 19 October 2018 - 01:52 PM, said:

Not sure what magic people see in the 3xHPPC build, because I built it in Smurfy and immediately swapped the HPPCs for ERPPCs, switched to a 300STD engine with 4 more DHS. Twice the max effective range, no min range, lower heat spike and faster dissipation for 15 less pts of dmg... Fair trade, considering you won't be hamstrung by the heat or min range if you have to defend yourself from a face hugger. Is it ubermech? No. It's fun to plink the clan Gauss/ac2 boat snipers on frozen city from across the ravine without shutting down after the 2nd shot.


Well, the appeal of 3x HPPC is the extra 15 points of PPFLD...

I actually found that I got good performance from my Awesome with three HPPCs, two MLs and twenty six total single heat sinks. Can get a reasonable number of alphas off before overheating (because SHS have increased threshold levels over DHS), with comparable cooling to DHS builds. It's a little slower (50 KPH), and one of it's arms aren't exactly armored... but with all the weapons torso mounted the arms are so necessary. This is, of course, not saying you can't get good (or better) performance from an ERPPC version.

So far, I'm seeing triple HPPC as an interesting thing, it seems to help bring the Awesome up to other assault mechs, while not being overwhelmingly too powerful. I'm kinda hoping that PGI leaves the quirk as it is right now.

#59 Satan n stuff

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Posted 20 October 2018 - 02:54 AM

View PostFupDup, on 18 October 2018 - 05:25 AM, said:

Or dual HPPC with some Medium Pulses or something to cover your min range.

HERETIC! The only acceptable backup weapon on a PPC Awesome is more PPC, mine's got dual HPPC and dual snubnose PPC.

#60 dante245

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Posted 20 October 2018 - 03:02 AM

View PostBud Crue, on 18 October 2018 - 03:28 AM, said:

Alas, this possibility (leaving the GH reduction quirk available to triple HPPC on this one mech) will not happen. Chris’s bias against quirks and variant performance DEMAND that this quirk must be removed by his fun killing standards. This quirk provides a variant with a “single optimized build” that is dictated by this quirk, and forces a player to run that build in order for the variant to be successful. In other words if the quirk forces everyone to play the variant with a single build (triple HPPC) but with no quirk they might run something else, or simply not play the variant at all (a consequence PGI has always been historically content with for long periods of time), then a variant specific quirk is unacceptable (except when it is like with the Spider 5V of course).

Chris has repeatedly said that such build defining, and player choice removing, quirks must not be allowed as they represent “barriers to entry” for players. Chis will not let such a quirk stand for long. So enjoy it while it lasts, however mediocre its benefits are.

accept it was PGI who put the quirk in, and said it was there to stay? not sure how you all got so south with this. also, they are never removing it, cause they are already making plans to add in MORE. and yes, its not competitive, but DAM its awesome. :)





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