Jump to content

Other Mechs You’D Like To See Unique Quirks (Gh Or Otherwise) On.


62 replies to this topic

#1 Bud Crue

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Rage
  • Rage
  • 8,613 posts
  • LocationOn the farm in central Minnesota

Posted 19 October 2018 - 05:39 AM

So Chris says that while the erroneous/accidental 3 HPPC no GH quirk on the Awesome 8Q is not operating as designed, he is going to leave it in place for now.

So, lets pretend that he concludes that giving a niche variant a quirk such as this, which allows the variant to perform in its niche a bit better is actually a good thing and he leaves it in long term; and that seeing moderate increase in the variant being played he decides to provide other lower performing/niche variants with similar quirks.

In such a ‘dare to dream’ scenario, what would you like to see, and which variants do you think are in greatest need of something like this, to at least give the variant in question a reason to be played?

I’d like to see mechs that are utterly redundant or outclassed get some love so as to encourage their play. I don’t care if it is lore based or stock build focused or something totally out of left field. We need something to encourage more diversity as there are just so many variants of mechs you never see in game because they are garbage compared to others. I see the 8Q precedent as a possible opening to suggest some mild/moderate/niche oriented quirk love that could get some of the dross in the game played again.

So what variants would you like to see get this sort of help, and what kind of quirks would you give them in the spirit of the 8Q precedent?

Edited by Bud Crue, 19 October 2018 - 05:42 AM.


#2 El Bandito

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 26,201 posts
  • LocationStill doing ungodly amount of damage, but with more accuracy.

Posted 19 October 2018 - 06:03 AM

PGI can use HSL to further differentiate identical variants, prime offender being mechs like the Black Knight. For example: BK-6B can have increased LPL GH limit, while the BK-7L can get increased regular LL GH limit.

#3 Marquis De Lafayette

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Blazing
  • The Blazing
  • 1,062 posts
  • LocationIn Valley Forge with General Washington

Posted 19 October 2018 - 06:19 AM

Cataphacts need something more than armor and agility to compensate for the huge torso. Maybe an extra snub-nose ppc....it Probably doesn’t have the heat management to abuse that.

In concept: I like pgi doing this. Just as long as they do it only on truely sub-par chassis’s. Every mech really should have something they do well...some reason to drive it....and many mech just don’t have a real role in the game or a reason to be used at all. I wouldnt have a problem with them also doing it with “ok” mechs and not so great weapons (although they probably should just buff the weapons instead) 4 light ppc’s on some mechs would be ok.. same with 4x mrm 10’s



#4 Nightbird

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Formidable
  • The Formidable
  • 3,219 posts

Posted 19 October 2018 - 06:25 AM

Hellslinger needs some love

#5 Daurock

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • 432 posts
  • LocationSouth Dakota

Posted 19 October 2018 - 06:26 AM

For me, the bar to have a highly specialized, very powerful quirk like these requires Really, two things -

First, that the mech is otherwise average to bad. The awesome fits in this category. If a "Good" mech starts getting quirks like these, it quickly has the potential to either invite a weapon nerf, or gut an entire chassis for that 1 build. neither are good things.

The second thing I want to see for a mech that gets one of these quirks is one of 2 criteria - either the mech has a unique, recognizable loadout, or the mech has a several, very similar variants. The awesome fits the first criteria of these, with the triple PPCs. The Black knight is an example of a mech that fits the second. (EDIT: The reason for this is that if you add this type of quirk, you very quickly get to the point where you almost are exclusively limited to using that quirk. For a mech with a lot of similar variants, or a mech that the "Iconic" loadout is what people are wanting anyway, this is OK. Otherwise, it needlessly limits a chassis.)


Because of that, the number of mechs i see as good fits for these types of quirks is pretty limited. I guess they'd include -
Awesome (8Q) -
Black Knight (Several)
Cataphract (Several)
Nova (Low hardpoint count Arms. Maybe a set-of-8 for the NVA-A that includes a +1LL)
Atlas (Instead of GH quirks, I'd prefer to see an obnoxiously high armor level as a chassis feature, retaining it being clumsy)
Dragon (I have no idea what it needs, but something unique would be cool)
Hunchback (4G, 4H)- I'd like to see a quirk that entirely removes Jam chance from the UAC10/20, or one that adds a massive boost (Think like 50% fire rate) to the standard AC20.


As a side note - Even though there's iconic loadouts for these, my list would NOT include -
King Crab
Warhammer
Marauder

Edited by Daurock, 19 October 2018 - 07:17 AM.


#6 Der Geisterbaer

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 321 posts

Posted 19 October 2018 - 06:31 AM

I'd like to see one of the IS light mechs - preferably a Locust or Flea variant - with 4 (or 6) engery mounts that gets some serious -heat and -cooldown quirks on (non-ER) small lasers only.

#7 Bombast

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 7,167 posts

Posted 19 October 2018 - 06:34 AM

I'd like to see the Blackjack get its mega-quirks back.

#8 Bud Crue

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Rage
  • Rage
  • 8,613 posts
  • LocationOn the farm in central Minnesota

Posted 19 October 2018 - 06:38 AM

View PostDaurock, on 19 October 2018 - 06:26 AM, said:

For me, the bar to have a highly specialized, very powerful quirk like these requires Really, two things -

First, that the mech is otherwise average to bad. The awesome fits in this category. If a "Good" mech starts getting quirks like these, it quickly has the potential to either invite a weapon nerf, or gut an entire chassis for that 1 build. neither are good things.


Looking at the 8Q as the case study here, most folks I know were already running the 3HPPC (with either a TC or 3ML as “back up”). The GH quirk is not imho “very powerful” of a quirk (at least in this case) but just makes a niche build a little more playable. I think other niche variants could use some similar help. A mech like a Quickdraw 5K gaining a +1 GH for ERLL, for example, is not going to make the 4ERLL build suddenly OP, but rather just give folks that like that mech a bit more reason to play it. Even a Grasshopper or BM if given the same bonus would not affect either much (if at all) but might perhaps encourage folks to instead of running a 5ERLL build run 4 and perhaps some secondary weapons instead?

I think if properly applied, quirks like these, could provide some crap and even decent mechs some real benefits. Not necessarily in terms of meta play, but simply incereasing diversity of builds a reasonable player might want to bring out now and again; such as in a manner like we are seeing right now with the 8Q.

#9 Daurock

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • 432 posts
  • LocationSouth Dakota

Posted 19 October 2018 - 07:05 AM

View PostBud Crue, on 19 October 2018 - 06:38 AM, said:

Looking at the 8Q as the case study here, most folks I know were already running the 3HPPC (with either a TC or 3ML as “back up”). The GH quirk is not imho “very powerful” of a quirk (at least in this case) but just makes a niche build a little more playable. I think other niche variants could use some similar help. A mech like a Quickdraw 5K gaining a +1 GH for ERLL, for example, is not going to make the 4ERLL build suddenly OP, but rather just give folks that like that mech a bit more reason to play it. Even a Grasshopper or BM if given the same bonus would not affect either much (if at all) but might perhaps encourage folks to instead of running a 5ERLL build run 4 and perhaps some secondary weapons instead?

I think if properly applied, quirks like these, could provide some crap and even decent mechs some real benefits. Not necessarily in terms of meta play, but simply incereasing diversity of builds a reasonable player might want to bring out now and again; such as in a manner like we are seeing right now with the 8Q.


In the case of the 8Q, I like the way it's working. It adds something unique, and doesn't overpower the chassis, i agree. The battlemaster is still an overall far more powerful chassis, and even when running something like a 2+1 HPPC build, easily keeps up with the awesome. Additionally, the 8Q isn't a mech someone is going to feel bad about by the PPC's being just about the only semi-good build you can make. The PPC's are Iconic, fun, and in all honesty probably the reason you buy the thing in the first place. That's the reason I'm OK with pigeon-holing it into using PPCs.

However, take something like the Quickdraw example - It's already a better chassis via much more agility, and better armor quirks than the Rifleman, which means that adding quirks that add more builds to the chassis just makes the energy-based riflemen (Like the 3N, or the 5D) just fall that much further behind. You could in theory add a rifleman quirk, and achieve better balance, but that potentially pigeon-holes the variants with a significant quirk into nearly exclusively building around that quirk. (Or else they'd already be wanting a quickdraw) The rifleman is bad, but at least it's diverse, and pigeon-holing even one or two variants of it cuts into that. That's why i'm not huge on adding quirks like this unless it fits BOTH of those criteria.

Edited by Daurock, 19 October 2018 - 07:06 AM.


#10 Bud Crue

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Rage
  • Rage
  • 8,613 posts
  • LocationOn the farm in central Minnesota

Posted 19 October 2018 - 07:33 AM

View PostDaurock, on 19 October 2018 - 07:05 AM, said:

Nicely explained counter point


In terms of existing better performers perhaps improving diversity is indeed a fools erand.
But in terms of all the crapier mechs that we have I am OK with pigeon-holing them if that means seeing more of them in game. Mechs like the non-1E or PB Locusts, any of the varieties of Vipers (I haven’t seen one of those in game in like a year), several of the Highlanders, etc. just need something (be it a GH quirk or what have you) to get them played. At all. If giving a currently nonplayed mech a quirk, pigeon-holes it into only one or two idealized builds, so be it; at least the thing is not in constant moth balls. They would just need to be careful to make sure that the variant in question, that is given the bonus, doesn’t make other mechs capable of the same build clearly inferior (In your example above the Rifleman with a GH quirk would still differentiate from the 5K, in that the 5K has JJs, for example).

I also accept that the quirks will necessarily only compliment what is already pretty mediocre (as in the case of the 8Q, if for no other reason than to avoid Chris’s historical view that quirks which impose a single optimized build must be avoided, but I think this can be worked with if we focus on the underperformers; since after all Chris is allowing the 8Q quirk to remain.

#11 Daurock

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • 432 posts
  • LocationSouth Dakota

Posted 19 October 2018 - 08:07 AM

View PostBud Crue, on 19 October 2018 - 07:33 AM, said:

In terms of existing better performers perhaps improving diversity is indeed a fools erand.
But in terms of all the crapier mechs that we have I am OK with pigeon-holing them if that means seeing more of them in game. Mechs like the non-1E or PB Locusts, any of the varieties of Vipers (I haven’t seen one of those in game in like a year), several of the Highlanders, etc. just need something (be it a GH quirk or what have you) to get them played. At all. If giving a currently nonplayed mech a quirk, pigeon-holes it into only one or two idealized builds, so be it; at least the thing is not in constant moth balls. They would just need to be careful to make sure that the variant in question, that is given the bonus, doesn’t make other mechs capable of the same build clearly inferior (In your example above the Rifleman with a GH quirk would still differentiate from the 5K, in that the 5K has JJs, for example).

I also accept that the quirks will necessarily only compliment what is already pretty mediocre (as in the case of the 8Q, if for no other reason than to avoid Chris’s historical view that quirks which impose a single optimized build must be avoided, but I think this can be worked with if we focus on the underperformers; since after all Chris is allowing the 8Q quirk to remain.


I wouldn't take it to mean that if we are so inclined, we couldn't MAKE places for more of these unique builds, either. Right now, not a ton of places work very well for thee things, but we could make more of them if we wanted.

For example, Let's go back to that quickdraw Example for a moment.
Assume that PGI somehow manages to put some chassis buffs for some of the of the rifleman chassis, (Or, if absolutely necessary, generic quickdraw armor nerfs) so that it actually has better effective armor (Though still lower agility) than the Quickdraw. Couple that with moving the traits on the energy rifleman to more generic (instead of PPC specific, which is stupid on that Variant, IMO) energy quirks, so that most of the variants can handle multiple viable builds, and that most rifleman chassis can indeed compete with the best Quickdraw variants. This gives us room to work with the Less good Quickdraw Variants.

Looking at the QKD variants, I notice that the 4-G has far fewer options than other QKD variants, due to hardpoint limitations. At that point, that particular variant would be on-par at best with the Rifleman in overall effectiveness, and have other variants easily available for most anything you can do with that 1 variant. That would make it a good candidate for something unique at that point, and Thus, a good candidate for something like your mentioned +1ERLL build.

So, if we add the quirk at that point, it would have lower armor than the rifleman, along with Poor-er Hardpoint locations, but have superior agility, and the mentioned +1ERLL quirk. The rifleman would compete with the better armor, better hardpoint locations, and better cooling. At least in theory, this would then be balanced with the other mech, and also, since we are effecting 1 variant of a very similar sub-set of a group, not a huge deal to pigeon hole on the QKD.

Edited by Daurock, 19 October 2018 - 10:13 AM.


#12 Marquis De Lafayette

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Blazing
  • The Blazing
  • 1,062 posts
  • LocationIn Valley Forge with General Washington

Posted 19 October 2018 - 08:12 AM

Although the 3 HPPC Awesome was I guess technically a “mistake” (was supposed to be PPC-only...which would be still garbage), it seemingly “made a not-so-good” mech “ok, but not OP” if it uses one particular build. I don’t mind them experimenting more of this kind of stuff, even if they have to dial it back later if it’s “too-good”....#makebadmechsfun

Edited by Marquis De Lafayette, 19 October 2018 - 08:13 AM.


#13 S O L A I S

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • 385 posts
  • LocationFlorida

Posted 19 October 2018 - 08:32 AM

Black Laner could use heat cap boost and/or dissapation quirks.

It simply can't run enough heat sinks and is always gimped by not being able to actually fire it's weapons very often.

#14 ACH75

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Grizzly
  • The Grizzly
  • 215 posts

Posted 19 October 2018 - 08:46 AM

BANSHEE BNC-3E "RAC +1 Quirk" to allow either 4RAC2 or 2RAC2+1RAC5


...and more CT armor to all variants! Posted Image

#15 VonBruinwald

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Philanthropist
  • Philanthropist
  • 850 posts
  • LocationRandis IV

Posted 19 October 2018 - 09:56 AM

Rather than just slapping increased GHL's on a bunch of mechs I'd rather see more unique quirks, ie:

50% Reduced minimum range - For LRM/PPC boats (Eg. Mauler - 1P)
50% Increased targeting time - For barn doors with easily isolated hitboxes (e.g. Cataphracts)
-10 tons drop tonnage - Hellspawn - Counts as a light in QP and handy for FW to.

#16 Marquis De Lafayette

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Blazing
  • The Blazing
  • 1,062 posts
  • LocationIn Valley Forge with General Washington

Posted 19 October 2018 - 10:52 AM

View PostVonBruinwald, on 19 October 2018 - 09:56 AM, said:

Rather than just slapping increased GHL's on a bunch of mechs I'd rather see more unique quirks, ie:

50% Reduced minimum range - For LRM/PPC boats (Eg. Mauler - 1P)
50% Increased targeting time - For barn doors with easily isolated hitboxes (e.g. Cataphracts)
-10 tons drop tonnage - Hellspawn - Counts as a light in QP and handy for FW to.


This seems like the kind of thing PGI would actually think up....as they really don’t make much of a difference (although if one doesn’t play the game you might think it’s great).....so nope....not nearly good enough for unloved chassis’s.

For your examples: 1. minimum range reductions for weapons on a slow IS assault isn’t going to make a difference in 99% of situations. 2. Good players are just going to go CT (which is ample) on that Cataphact the moment they see it...target time or not...you still die. 3. While I actually like the Hellspawn hero....is it better than a Grinner, Wolfhound-2 or even an Oxide.....nope. I am still bringing the 35 tonner in FW over the best Hellspawn in nearly every situation....the other hellspawns are worse.

Fun Niches can save the usefulness of sub-par mechs...give us some more PGI

Edited by Marquis De Lafayette, 19 October 2018 - 11:07 AM.


#17 Peter2k

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 1,773 posts
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationWuppertal - Germany

Posted 19 October 2018 - 10:58 AM

Blood Asp - no Gaus explosion; each side

#18 Eisenhorne

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • Liquid Metal
  • 2,109 posts
  • LocationUpstate NY

Posted 19 October 2018 - 11:04 AM

I'd like to see a quirk for some brawler mechs that reduce SRM spread. Some mechs like the Centurion that are otherwise pretty useless, if they had ultra-focused SRM barrages, might become more viable, and it would definitely differentiate them from their competition.

#19 Armored Yokai

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • IS Exemplar
  • IS Exemplar
  • 1,703 posts
  • LocationHouston,TX

Posted 19 October 2018 - 11:07 AM

Annihilator E (Quad PPC)
Atlas RS (Quad PPC)
Warhawk prime (Quad PPC)
Nova Prime
Hunchback 4Pee
Battlemaster (Quad ppc hellslinger)

#20 Khobai

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 22,502 posts
  • LocationStranded on Isla Nublar

Posted 19 October 2018 - 11:31 AM

Id like to see the thunderbolt (and any other mech with multi-track) get multi-track+1, which would be the ability to target two enemy mechs at once

Id also like to see multi-track+1 and +2 be unlockable skills in the sensor tree. So a thunderbolt with multi-track+2 and its inherent multi-track+1 would be able to target upto four mechs at once. Multi-track would be such an obviously useful sensor skill that for some reason is missing from the game.

The way id make multi-track work is simply have a primary target and then upto three secondary targets. Primary and secondary targets would be selected with a different key. So R would still pick your primary target. And another key like F or whatever would pick upto three secondary targets.

Edited by Khobai, 19 October 2018 - 11:41 AM.






2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users