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Proper Battle Etiquette


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#1 Ren Grey

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 11:01 PM

This is not so much about my opinion, though I will offer it, rather my interest in the general opinion as I am open to the possibility of this being acceptable if the "victims" are typically ok with it.

That said, a particular incident left a sour taste in my mouth recently. It was a QP match on manifold. I was pretty beat up, as my team was on the losing end, when I engaged a nearly fresh player. This player is in a slightly higher percentile than myself. We were both piloting the same medium mech with the same load out. Frankly, in this exchange I was owning him. He took multiple alphas right to the face, he wasn't even bothering to twist. He went from yellow armor to a nearly red cored CT in short order and I was closing for the kill shot when he ran and literally hid behind a heavy teammate in a corner. This being the "victim". He wasn't following a push or anything like that, just forcing another player to be his shield.

Now, I am familiar with the concept of armor sharing but while I never intentionally take it, I would only ever, if it were clearly offered. I personally don't like the idea of forcing a teammate to take hits for me. Heck, I often do the opposite and put my mech between the enemy and a legged or severely wounded teammate. Hell, it's a game. Play to have fun or why bother. Playing for stats seams to always be a disadvantage for your team.

Please share your opinion if you have found yourself in either the role of the hider or the unintentional meat shield.

Edited by Ren Grey, 21 October 2018 - 11:01 PM.


#2 Kotzi

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 11:09 PM

Its a team game. Why would you condem a teammate that takes cover and trys to stay in the game with his firepower as long as possible? In the best case scenario every single one of your team gets to the front trades shots and falls back when he is cored to let others take hits. This is not 1V1 its 12V12 always try to outnumber the enemy when engaging.

There is Solaris if you want to duel others.

#3 Monkey Lover

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 11:28 PM

I am 100% ok with someone hiding behind me if they're red core.

#4 KrazedOmega

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 11:29 PM

I don't see anything wrong with it. If I'm taking a beating and I have teammates close by I'm going to maneuver behind them and use them as cover while they hopefully finish off whatever was attacking me.

Staying in the line of fire and letting the enemy finish me off, just to then have them start attacking my teammates doesn't make sense.

#5 Wil McCullough

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 11:31 PM

There's this quote from iron blooded orphans - nobody wants to die in a battle they've already won (or something to that effect).

Pretty smart play from your opponent. The only thing he's guilty of is being cheeky. He basically just forced you to choose between sacrificing a kill or engaging in a 1v2 if you got greedy.

#6 WrathOfDeadguy

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 11:37 PM

Why should a player on the opposing team hand you a kill, if they see a way to evade you and stay alive? That's not "running to hide"- it's retreating to cover. That said cover was another 'Mech is irrelevant.

This isn't a game of (1v1)*12- it's 12v12. You should always expect other enemies to get in the way when you're trying to secure a kill. The player you were targeting is under no obligation to let you take the killshot, and their teammate is under no obligation not to interfere in your "duel"- even if the player you were fighting agreed to fight you one-on-one, nothing in the CoC sanctifies that agreement or makes it binding on other players in the match (or even, for that matter, the combatants). If running behind their teammate denied you (and therefore your team) a kill, and resulted in either you being killed instead or you running away, then that was the smart play... because it contributed to a better result for their side, and a worse result for yours. That's kinda the whole point of the game, at least in the team-based modes. Maximize your team's score, minimize your opponent's- those goals almost always run hand-in-hand.

We have a dueling mode. It's called Solaris. There, you may have all the 'honorable' 1v1 fights you could wish for.

Edited by WrathOfDeadguy, 21 October 2018 - 11:39 PM.


#7 arcana75

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 11:57 PM

Battle Etiquette is an oxymoron.

#8 Ren Grey

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 12:30 AM

I clearly know it is a team game. I talked about doing things for my team in the description. Hell, the ones telling me it is a team game seem to be the least likely to know what that means. I try to prioritize my teammates first. If someone asks for assistance, I am heading that way to assist. If I see someones health rapidly going down, I am heading that way to assist. In fact the whole point is that I don't think that this incident is a team way to play. It has nothing to do with 1v1. I feel the need to say, "duh" here.

I don't care about getting the kill outside of preventing further damage to my team. I have no problem engaging in or often coming out victorious in a 2v1 in the beginning of a match, let alone towards the end where everybody is beat up.

Of course it is 12v12, jesus. There is always going to be 1v1 whether it be scouts out in the early game or towards the end of the match. Turning a losing 1v1 into a 2v1 or greater is not unexpected and I have no problem with that. Like I had said, the heavy was not involved in this plan and did not "get in the way". He got put in my way.

In this scenario the heavy was in as bad of shape as he was and he didn't simply lure me over there (I knew the other mech was there beforehand), he full on hid behind him. He didn't engage at all, just hid. He wasn't sharing in taking me down. He was putting a severely wounded friendly with little chance of taking me down between me and himself and not helping at all. It was actually another mech that showed up that did most of the damage to me. If I am going to lure someone to teammates, you can bet your *** I am going to help engage.

That seems like less, living to fight on and more about that worthless kdr so many people seem to cherish. There was inanimate cover 10m away that he could have used while aiding the heavy instead of condemning him. One could argue that of the two, the heavy was the greater asset to keep in play. The medium's survival at that point in game did not lend to the victory at all.

Edited by Ren Grey, 22 October 2018 - 12:55 AM.


#9 Vellron2005

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 12:36 AM

I find stat padding a cowardly, uncool practice.

It's ok to retreat to a safe distance if you're all messed up, but not to stat-pad, but rather to survive long enough to avoid fire while still doing damage..

It's not ok to meat-shield. (meat shielding is a practice where you prevent the teammate in front of you to retreat, so it would tank damage for you).

I've been known to draw fire, or even tank damage for a damaged teammate or unitmate, and I never hide behind other teammates - there's cover for that.

#10 Vxheous

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 12:58 AM

So, finish the story, did you kill both of them, or did you end up dying?

#11 Kotzi

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 12:58 AM

Well it rather sounds like i want my kill thus dont run away other than he dragged the match unnecessarily to try to padd his stats. Its legit to disengage and loose the attention of your foe to attack another foe or just to not die in an unnecessarily way. Victory was imminent for his team why risking to die and increase the odds of the enemy turning the tide?

Primary goal is to win, secondary to survive. Risk your life and die trying to win the game? Applaudable. Die because you want that kill no matter what? Condemnable. Retreating when your odds are against you to live to fight on another location in that match? Smart move.

When loosing running away, hide and shutdown, thats stats padding or griefing imho, denying the enemy a kill and stay in the game to fight on is legit af no matter on winning or loosing side.

Edited by Kotzi, 22 October 2018 - 12:58 AM.


#12 Ren Grey

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 01:14 AM

Kotzi, I am guessing you posted before I finished my last response. I already understand all of the tactics you mention. This is none of those. It might not be stat padding by a very specific definition but that is beside the point. Hell, if he wants to run away, that is fine. He should have, he was on the losing end of that exchange. However, he was basically trading his teammates death for his own. That is what I took issue with. Again, not just luring me to teammates to gang up on me, instead putting a living wall between us that was as frail as he was and then doing nothing to aid said wall.

#13 Vxheous

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 01:35 AM

View PostRen Grey, on 22 October 2018 - 01:14 AM, said:

Kotzi, I am guessing you posted before I finished my last response. I already understand all of the tactics you mention. This is none of those. It might not be stat padding by a very specific definition but that is beside the point. Hell, if he wants to run away, that is fine. He should have, he was on the losing end of that exchange. However, he was basically trading his teammates death for his own. That is what I took issue with. Again, not just luring me to teammates to gang up on me, instead putting a living wall between us that was as frail as he was and then doing nothing to aid said wall.


If you had him cherry red CT, and he ran and hid behind another mech that was just as beat up as he was, why don't you just kill both?

#14 Ren Grey

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 01:52 AM

What does that matter? This has absolutely nothing to do with getting the kill. Look up my stats, does it look like I care about them? What is the point of commenting when you clearly didn't read everything and aren't offering a relative point of view.

#15 Vxheous

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 02:00 AM

View PostRen Grey, on 22 October 2018 - 01:52 AM, said:

What does that matter? This has absolutely nothing to do with getting the kill. Look up my stats, does it look like I care about them? What is the point of commenting when you clearly didn't read everything and aren't offering a relative point of view.


The point is you're complaining about someone using someone else as a meatshield, someone else who was supposedly really beat up as well. You should just kill both and be done with it. He went and hid to deny you that kill, either be satified that you outtraded him, or go in and kill both. I don't care about your stats, are they good?

Edited by Vxheous, 22 October 2018 - 02:03 AM.


#16 Ren Grey

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 02:09 AM

The point should be pretty clear but you are missing it. I don't expect you to care about my stats and no, they aren't good which serves as part of the point you are missing. So again, you aren't saying anything relevant. If you have something relevant, great. Otherwise, please move on.

Edited by Ren Grey, 22 October 2018 - 02:36 AM.


#17 arcana75

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 03:56 AM

@Ren Grey, you opened with

Quote

rather my interest in the general opinion as I am open to the possibility of this being acceptable

Yet from your responses it seems like you were expecting people to support your views, and now are getting upset that opinions are contrary to yours.

#18 Marquis De Lafayette

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 05:52 AM

I will try to say something “relevant”
As games are often won by the team that achieves numberical/firepower superiority the earliest, you want teammates who get opened up to fall-back (if you want to call it hiding...fine...doesn’t matter). How many matches have we all witnessed where a 90%+ fresh assault/heavy (who has saved his armor till the end) gets mobbed by 3-4 tore up enemies to close games out. In the end-game it’s generally better to have 3 mechs with 40% health than 1 mech with 90%. So, if you lost trades early or got over-exposed....take a break and let the fresh guys do some work first. Sure, try to get some free shots on engaged enemies, but please don’t just let the enemy finish you.
Also, in the heat of the moment (when you are cherry-core) who checks to see if the friendly you are falling in behind of is more beat up than you? players are going to get out of mortal danger first and worry about their teammates status when they are safe. I don’t expect guys to scan my mech while they are trying to avoid enemy fire and get to safety....you can only do so much in the heat of the moment.

Edited by Marquis De Lafayette, 22 October 2018 - 06:00 AM.


#19 thievingmagpi

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 06:17 AM

sharing armour, who would've thought?



sounds like maybe the lights on your team dropped the ball. that's a super easy kill secure that keeps heavier tonnage from leaving the fight trying to chase wounded mechs.

Edited by thievingmagpi, 22 October 2018 - 08:56 AM.


#20 Nightbird

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 06:43 AM

Team based mode, 1v1 Solaris if you don't like it.





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