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Proper Battle Etiquette


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#61 Judah Malganis

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 09:43 PM

Typical snowflake post. Feigns outrage on behalf of someone else when in fact is masking his/her own insecurities. Queries opinions in hopes of finding validation but is surprised to find opposition. Disregards all disagreeable opinions (the majority), then stamps his/her feet and argues entitlement because reasons.

#62 Ren Grey

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 10:12 PM

#60 -Yes, opinions that are on point. Pretty simple and as the one asking the question, of course I can decide which are relevant and no it isn't based on tone alone but being an ***** doesn't help. I suppose a gif about whining is supposed to be considered relevant information? A quote that has nothing to do with the topic is relevant information? A statement that completely overlooks any of the provided details is relevant information? No, none of it is.

Details were provided purely for painting a picture. I felt it was a different situation than standard armor sharing which I am familiar with. How is anyone supposed to make informed decisions if I don't provide as much detail as possible. Explaining his actions were nothing more than an example to pose the question and it only even meant anything to me because I had never seen it done like that before.

You are looking at this through tinted glasses because you must prioritize kills. Sorry, outside of it as a mechanic of game play, I really don't care. I can't even grasp the motivation for caring about it. Seriously, explain it to me if you even know why. It is a stat in a freaking game. Do you masturbate to it? Can you trade it in for gold? Can you use it as a blanket on cold nights?

I am happy with any relevant response which I literally just acknowledged were mostly for it. Like in the same post you are responding to now. Also in the post I explained to someone whom totally nailed it, that it was about making a decision about how to conduct myself. I want to hear the "victims", yes well aware I said that, to say they are ok with it. That way I don't feel bad if I ever need to use that tactic. However, if even one person genuinely said that no, it f'ing sucks when people do that. I would likely continue to never use that tactic.

#61 - The person doesn't matter. I am not trying to defend that one specific guy. It was just an example. I am trying to gauge where people are at and had you read, you would see that I clearly accept a number of apposing views. Any "buts" are again, just mechanics of discussion. You know like, "hey I see what you are saying but did you consider this?".

I literally want opposition as I explained previously. I just want to be sure, it is based on the example provided. Like, is it ok to full on hide behind someone whom could possibly die in your place, and not even aid in attacking? If yes, then that just gives me more options. As I viewed that behavior as differing from tactical armor sharing, I was previously under the assumption that if I did something like that, it would be as bad as blocking someones retreat, etc.

It would seem thus far that while some acknowledge it isn't necessarily the same kind of behavior they would exhibit in real life, it's a game and pretty much everyone is doing it so why not do it too. While others just outright prioritize there own well being without any regard for others. I acknowledge both but think I would definitely lean towards the former. I can even understand the latter because damn, sometimes teammates do some stuff that is just downright messed up.

Edited by Ren Grey, 22 October 2018 - 10:33 PM.


#63 Wil McCullough

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 10:48 PM

View PostRen Grey, on 22 October 2018 - 10:12 PM, said:

#60 -Yes, opinions that are on point. Pretty simple and as the one asking the question, of course I can decide which are relevant and no it isn't based on tone alone but being an ***** doesn't help. I suppose a gif about whining is supposed to be considered relevant information? A quote that has nothing to do with the topic is relevant information? A statement that completely overlooks any of the provided details is relevant information? No, none of it is.

Details were provided purely for painting a picture. I felt it was a different situation than standard armor sharing which I am familiar with. How is anyone supposed to make informed decisions if I don't provide as much detail as possible. Explaining his actions were nothing more than an example to pose the question and it only even meant anything to me because I had never seen it done like that before.

You are looking at this through tinted glasses because you must prioritize kills. Sorry, outside of it as a mechanic of game play, I really don't care. I can't even grasp the motivation for caring about it. Seriously, explain it to me if you even know why. It is a stat in a freaking game. Do you masturbate to it? Can you trade it in for gold? Can you use it as a blanket on cold nights?

I am happy with any relevant response which I literally just acknowledged were mostly for it. Like in the same post you are responding to now. Also in the post I explained to someone whom totally nailed it, that it was about making a decision about how to conduct myself. I want to hear the "victims", yes well aware I said that, to say they are ok with it. That way I don't feel bad if I ever need to use that tactic. However, if even one person genuinely said that no, it f'ing sucks when people do that. I would likely continue to never use that tactic.

#61 - The person doesn't matter. I am not trying to defend that one specific guy. It was just an example. I am trying to gauge where people are at and had you read, you would see that I clearly accept a number of apposing views. Any "buts" are again, just mechanics of discussion. You know like, "hey I see what you are saying but did you consider this?".

I literally want opposition as I explained previously. I just want to be sure, it is based on the example provided. Like, is it ok to full on hide behind someone whom could possibly die in your place, and not even aid in attacking? If yes, then that just gives me more options. As I viewed that behavior as differing from tactical armor sharing, I was previously under the assumption that if I did something like that, it would be as bad as blocking someones retreat, etc.

It would seem thus far that while some acknowledge it isn't necessarily the same kind of behavior they would exhibit in real life, it's a game and pretty much everyone is doing it so why not do it too. While others just outright prioritize there own well being without any regard for others. I acknowledge both but think I would definitely lean towards the former. I can even understand the latter because damn, sometimes teammates do some stuff that is just downright messed up.


I find it hilarious that you can go from saying gifs don't provide "relevant information" for people to "make informed decisions" then pop off about "it's just a game" within the time it takes you to hit the enter key twice.

#64 Ren Grey

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 10:58 PM

#63 - Is that all? You didn't even tie them together right. Context, it is your friend. You have gone from missing the point to just being a troll.

#65 Dragonporn

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 11:13 PM

On subject:
It was cowardly and balless move by that guy in terms of "honor", but what he did was 100% right from tactical standpoint. He gets his arse kicked and sees and opportunity to save himself, he goes for it, so his better armored buddy can protect him and either kill you or drive you away. In a rush, he might not even noticed if his teammate is damaged or not, while he didn't offer kill for enemy team and can still fight conservatively to help out his own guys longer. In theory.

There's also psychological part here, I don't think this guys worried about his K/D so much, as his self-preservation instinct kicked in (yeah, sometime it happens in games too, unconsciously).

These little things makes playing with people, instead of bots, absolutely priceless, no matter how good/bad teamplay actually is. And MWO somehow doesn't feel very streamlined in terms of how people play, which means unexpected builds and player behaviors. That's what keeps me coming back here I guess.

Edited by Dragonporn, 22 October 2018 - 11:18 PM.


#66 Wil McCullough

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 11:25 PM

View PostRen Grey, on 22 October 2018 - 10:58 PM, said:

#63 - Is that all? You didn't even tie them together right. Context, it is your friend. You have gone from missing the point to just being a troll.


The context is the same. Either you want players to treat your opinion on virtual "honourable" behavior seriously, which makes your point that "it's just a game" moot.

Or

It is just a game, not to be taken seriously and there's nothing wrong with people posting gifs.

Which one is it? If you're gonna draw meaningless lines in the sand, the least you could do is be consistent on where the line is supposed to be.

#67 Ren Grey

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 11:26 PM

#65 - Thanks for the thoughtful input. I agree with what you are saying and it does change my point of view. I appreciate it.

#66 - No, that is not the context I am talking about. In the quote used that response about it being a game wasn't me saying it. I was talking about other peoples point of view.

I do however say it is just a game elsewhere. What do you imagine that means? They aren't mutually exclusive. It being a game doesn't mean you can't ask serious questions. It also doesn't mean that if someone posts a stupid gif in a thread that it becomes relevant to that serious question. If your answer to everything is a stupid gif, post away. However don't expect someone asking a serious question to give a crap about it if it doesn't serve to answer that question.

What, because something is virtual, you can let your inner ***** out? Sure, no one can stop you but just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. I understand that it is unrealistic, particularly in this day and age, to expect everyone to be on the up and up but it doesn't hurt to want that to be true. Further it doesn't hurt to want to know where the boundaries are when your aim is to be as little of an ***** as possible.

Edited by Ren Grey, 22 October 2018 - 11:51 PM.


#68 Wil McCullough

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 12:16 AM

View PostRen Grey, on 22 October 2018 - 11:26 PM, said:

#65 - Thanks for the thoughtful input. I agree with what you are saying and it does change my point of view. I appreciate it.

#66 - No, that is not the context I am talking about. In the quote used that response about it being a game wasn't me saying it. I was talking about other peoples point of view.

I do however say it is just a game elsewhere. What do you imagine that means? They aren't mutually exclusive. It being a game doesn't mean you can't ask serious questions. It also doesn't mean that if someone posts a stupid gif in a thread that it becomes relevant to that serious question. If your answer to everything is a stupid gif, post away. However don't expect someone asking a serious question to give a crap about it if it doesn't serve to answer that question.

What, because something is virtual, you can let your inner ***** out? Sure, no one can stop you but just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. I understand that it is unrealistic, particularly in this day and age, to expect everyone to be on the up and up but it doesn't hurt to want that to be true. Further it doesn't hurt to want to know where the boundaries are when your aim is to be as little of an ***** as possible.


Since when is anyone entitled to serious answers by virtue of them asking a "serious question"? Your "serious question" was the opening to some "you shouldn't be allowed to hide behind teammates" spiel.

And as for what players should or shouldn't do? Why are you trying to police what people do in-game? Are you pgi? Pgi has set a very clear set of rules and regulations to follow. Hiding behind a teammate doesn't break any of those rules. That is the bottom line.

Want to change that? Suggest and get people to push pgi to punish said behavior. Don't play pretend and go "oh i was just asking for opinions" and act like you' just want a discussion when you have an agenda to push.

We get it. You almost got a kill and the cheeky bugger ran off to hide behind a friendly heavy, you chased the cookie and got punished. It sucks. Too bad. Get over it instead of making this a social justice, good-guys-should-do-this-and-if-you-don't-you're-a-bad-guy bs.

#69 Arend

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 12:26 AM

View PostWrathOfDeadguy, on 21 October 2018 - 11:37 PM, said:

This isn't a game of (1v1)*12- it's 12v12.


Really, most of the time it's more like 1v23!

#70 Ren Grey

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 12:38 AM

#68 - Sigh. I am not entitled to serious answers but I am also free to ignore pointless ones.

I am not policing what anyone is doing. I don't expect anyone to adopt the decision I arrive at thanks to the useful information provided, only myself.

The rules aren't the bottom line. They are simply guidelines. Something does not have to be enforceable to be considered wrong. But, like I said I am not after a change in everyone's behavior. Just information to use in deciding my own behavior.

Missing my point again and again and not even making traction on your own point. Ideally off topic would be kept to a minimum. This is exactly the kind of BS that makes reading any threads on here tedious. But hey, you can keep going if you want to.

Edited by Ren Grey, 23 October 2018 - 12:43 AM.


#71 Wil McCullough

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 12:48 AM

View PostRen Grey, on 23 October 2018 - 12:38 AM, said:


The rules aren't the bottom line. They are simply guidelines.


Say that again, but slower.


1) You say that you almost kill an opponent and he runs off to hide behind a damaged teammate.
2) You ask if that is acceptable behavior.
3) 3 pages of people say it is.
4) some make fun of you
5) you reply "yes, but..." to a few
6) i (and some others) question your intentions on creating this topic
7) you claim you have gathered enough "information" to make your own conclusions
8) unsurprisingly, your conclusions don't differ from what you originally already believed before creating this topic
9) and that is despite almost unanimous opinions and reasons opposing your belief
10) which leads us once again to point 6.

Edited by Wil McCullough, 23 October 2018 - 07:49 AM.


#72 Judah Malganis

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 12:56 AM

Ultimately, I don't see what your opponent did as wrong. A players shouldn't just throw their hands up and accept defeat because their torso is cherry red. I've seen a lot of cherry red players get the match-ending kill, and have done so myself a few times. In fact, just 2 days ago I went cherry red CT on my first poke in a light and ended the game alive with 3 kills and a team win. It pays to not give up after a few hits.

In fact, a player that has been damaged by an enemy, and presumably inflicted damage on them as well, would probably do well to try and lure said opponent into his or her team's line of sight to destroy it and ensure his or her own survival. Tactics trump social niceties in battle.

Edited by Judah Malganis, 23 October 2018 - 01:01 AM.


#73 Ren Grey

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 01:12 AM

#71 - No, you. Stating the rules are the bottom line suggests there is nothing else. I guess ultimately you could say they aren't guidelines either as they can be enforced but they still aren't the bottom line. As stated there are things to consider beyond just the enforceable rules, a bigger picture. No policy that I am aware of fully covers every thing that one should do. You can still do things without breaking the rules that hurt or are a nuisance to other people. Do you only avoid wrong doing because you might get in trouble? If deep down you are a jerk, have the balls to always be a jerk.

But seriously, now you are just nit picking my phrasing. Solid work. You got me. Whatever am I to do with myself?

Again, 3 pages of mostly BS and some people saying it is and one or two saying it isn't or that it is tactically correct but not honorable. There are also quite a few people whom get it and are contributing while you continue to miss the boat.

I have not reached a conclusion, I said it would seem thus far and then mentioned two scenarios, neither of which match my original view. Explain how viewing it as wrong and doing it because everyone else is are the same. Next explain how viewing it as wrong and doing it for purely selfish reasons is the same.

If you want to keep pushing your agenda on me, at least answer the questions regarding that. Tell me what motivation there is to care about a kill for any other reason than getting a team win. Seriously, you must care. So tell me why I should. Sell me on caring about stats, I can't find any motivator for it. I am pretty sure this is the only game I play that even has them and the only reason I even play this game is because I like Mechs.



#72 - Thank you for the input. I do see your point. I have myself performed well despite being heavily damaged on occasion, even secured some victories despite believing I would die long beforehand. I can also appreciate the tactic of a team lure. I am curious though, do you think one should, or perhaps you'd appreciate if they participate once they get there if there is no one else to easily engage? If not, can you imagine a scenario where you may want that person to?

"Tactics trump social niceties in battle", well put. Noted.

Edited by Ren Grey, 23 October 2018 - 01:47 AM.


#74 Judah Malganis

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 01:56 AM

Not sure what you're asking, but yes, if there is no other target close by and you suspect that an ally is being chased by a lone/damaged opponent, by all means, poke over and try to take some enemy guns off the board. Taking the opportunity to take out isolated targets by capitalizing on mistakes is literally how a team wins the match. Allowing them to retreat back to the safety of their team is how you lose.

#75 WrathOfDeadguy

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:22 AM

View PostRen Grey, on 23 October 2018 - 01:12 AM, said:

No, you.


"No, you"?!

...and we've reached full Kindergarten!

Posted Image

Dude, you've been making trollish ad-hominem snarkbacks to everyone who disagrees with you for four pages now. It's been very consistent. Anyone who agrees with you has had a valid point, everyone else has been full of BS. Is it any wonder you're getting mockery and derision now? You've now tripled your post count by doubling down on an attempted ego-stroke, then pitched a tantrum for being called out on it. The rest is on your own head.

I'ma grab a bag of popcorn. It's only a matter of time before this thread takes the off-ramp for K-Town.

#76 Wil McCullough

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:27 AM

View PostRen Grey, on 23 October 2018 - 01:12 AM, said:

snip


What on earth are you on about "agenda to kills"? This is a game built around that core mechanic. The more you kill and the less you die, the more games you win. Should there be another agenda for getting kills? What a strange accusation to make.

You've seriously gone off the rails, me thinks. The first sign that you're taking things too seriously is that you expect people to behave in real life the way they behave in-game.

Once again, i ask you - if you've already made up your mind that that pilot who hid behind his teammate is a jerk and that it's unacceptable behavior, why are you asking us for our opinions? What's the point of this thread? What's there to discuss if you're not interested in changing your mind?

Your stances keep conveniently changing. From "is this behavior acceptable?" to "this is why i don't think it's acceptable" to "it's unacceptable to me, contrary opinions don't matter, nothing anyone says will convince me otherwise". By now it's VERY obvious that i was right - you were looking for affirmation, didn't get it even though you expected it, and are now pissy just like how you were pissy cos you didn't get a kill you felt entitled to.

#77 Wil McCullough

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:38 AM

View PostWrathOfDeadguy, on 23 October 2018 - 02:22 AM, said:


"No, you"?!

...and we've reached full Kindergarten!

Posted Image

Dude, you've been making trollish ad-hominem snarkbacks to everyone who disagrees with you for four pages now. It's been very consistent. Anyone who agrees with you has had a valid point, everyone else has been full of BS. Is it any wonder you're getting mockery and derision now? You've now tripled your post count by doubling down on an attempted ego-stroke, then pitched a tantrum for being called out on it. The rest is on your own head.

I'ma grab a bag of popcorn. It's only a matter of time before this thread takes the off-ramp for K-Town.


Maybe he's a kurita. Battlefield decorum and all that jazz. If he cores me and i bow my mech in response, he'll probably whisper a haiku and let me go.

#78 Eisenhorne

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 04:37 AM

This whole discussion is ridiculous, and I cant believe the discussion on it has been going this long. There is nothing wrong with rotating behind the front line to live longer. Players who don't, or have a problem with that tactic, are bad.

#79 SFC174

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 08:57 AM

View PostEisenhorne, on 23 October 2018 - 04:37 AM, said:

This whole discussion is ridiculous, and I cant believe the discussion on it has been going this long. There is nothing wrong with rotating behind the front line to live longer. Players who don't, or have a problem with that tactic, are bad.


Well, you know forum traffic has been down lately so people are just jonesing for some conversation I guess, even if it is with concern trolls. ;)

#80 Napoleon_Blownapart

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 09:50 AM

you should try
Posted Image

it's single player turn based MechWarrior , just like this thread.BTW you're losingPosted Image

Edited by Gorantir, 23 October 2018 - 09:53 AM.






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