21 replies to this topic

[Avengar]

This isn't about balance, not sure how it's done, by tonage, skill or both, i just wish they would allow us to hot swap mech selection after map is chosen, i hate having to drop as a brawler on map designed for long range combat like polar highlands. Sometimes after the drop i just want to eject right away most of the time after getting beat up without doing much damage i just zerg in doing what i can until i die, then jump into another match right away

[justcallme A S H]

That would do nothing to help the state of the game.

If you got Polar everyone would just swap to super long range mechs and the map would become more of a snoozefest than it already is.

No thanks.

I often get stuck in a brawler on Polar. Still manage 800dmg+ regularly. All about positioning, map awareness and timing.

[Tatula]

That's taking the cheap way out. I understand the map selection sometimes seems to be the exact opposite of what your build is made for, like an energy boat on Terra Therma or brawling on Polar or Alpine, but that's when you have to dig a little deeper and put up a better fight rather than just cruise through the match with exactly the right mech and build. I can remember many times getting Polar in a brawler and the other team has 4 plus LRM boats and we ended up winning the match because our team worked up the courage to push into them instead of trying to hide from the missiles. Yeah. Sometimes it just seems like the Match Maker is purposely putting you on the losing team, but try to look at it as an opportunity to step up your game.

[Piney II]

Um........NO!

It's bad enough that there is map selection, but to choose mechs after the map selection is just gaming the game.

Before we could choose maps, we were forced into building mechs that could work in any heat level. Map selection gave us a small option.

To choose mechs after map selection?

Why even bother to be a real mechwarrior and accept a challenge? If winning is all you seek, you're missing the mark with this game.

[KodiakGW]

I’d welcome the change in pace. It would be nice to take a mech with maxed AMS on Polar, a cooler mech on Terra, and some of my fast mediums on HPG or Solaris City. I’m sure a lot of Lurm boaters would be happy to switch out if they get Solaris City.

That being said, since I think it would be nice, it will never happen. Nor will it fix the real issue with the matchmaker.

[MrXanthios]

justcallme A S H, on 22 October 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

That would do nothing to help the state of the game.

If you got Polar everyone would just swap to super long range mechs and the map would become more of a snoozefest than it already is.

No thanks.

I often get stuck in a brawler on Polar. Still manage 800dmg+ regularly. All about positioning, map awareness and timing.

that's you ash, not all people shoot like you. Polar is a cancer of a map designed to let low skill player pad their stats.

[Wil McCullough]

I actually have polar as my map with the highest wlr. And i brawl a lot.

Polar has very little hard cover but lots of winding trenches that spread all throughout the map. Those are good for surprise buttsecks if you're a brawler.

[Monkey Lover]

One of the things i hated most about cw. No thanks.

[justcallme A S H]

MrXanthios, on 22 October 2018 - 08:27 PM, said:

that's you ash, not all people shoot like you. Polar is a cancer of a map designed to let low skill player pad their stats.

Shooting has little to do with it when your max range is 290m.

It's all about positioning and timing at that point. There is actually a lot of terrain to use and approach from, just requires a little effort.

I see very regularly people with brawl builds sticking their faces up when they are 700m from enemy eating damage for absolutely no reason. This is just poor play and nothing to do with the map.

I'd say, in more games than not, an average player should still managed to meet this Average Match Score on Polar if employing basic minimap/team awareness. Dont expect high scores, I'm know I'm well beyond the average, but at least

[McGoat]

justcallme A S H, on 23 October 2018 - 04:30 AM, said:

I'd say, in more games than not, an average player should still managed to meet this Average Match Score on Polar if employing basic minimap/team awareness. Dont expect high scores, I'm know I'm well beyond the average, but at least

Polar is actually one of my most repeatable high score maps - usually in a mpl wolfhound

This last month i've done a lot of varying things (and alot of dumb things) to find where to best make use of short range, low armor, thus only improving myself.

Many others would stand to learn from doing the same, but alas it's easier to moan.

Edited by McGoat, 23 October 2018 - 04:40 AM.

[Asym]

OK, it seems OP a majority so far have said : No....

I disagree with them. If I were in charge, map selection wouldn't be voted on....it'd be random draw. That makes the playing field itself a little more stable than it is now. I get so tired of the HPG-brawl-Solaris-brawl-Crimsom-brawl-POLAR-complain all game long.

The second change might actually fix MM............I'd create a "Combat Effectiveness" (CE) algorithm. This concept is being worked on as I type at at least one major University that teaches game design..... CE takes what you do in each and every mech and calculates how effective you are in those mechs on each map.... No W/L, no differentiation between modes and creates an actual number each and every game you play influences... Then, it tied to an ELO based MM that uses CE....

This way, whom you are playing against is actually within your "class" of players. Tiers don't work because it and they depend on everyone else's efforts...... What you do is influenced. This way, if the game picks an open map, the CE for the mech you have selected and your CE for the use of that Mech only place you against others of the CE range.... Then, the MM picks teams based on type distribution: 3 lights, 3 mediums, 3 heavies and 3 assaults which is normalized for that map ! Each maps is unique based on the missions as well as the maps.... Nothing is generic.

You could end up playing with or against a well known name........because that well known pilot sucks in that mech or a potato noob could be playing against a well known pilot because that potato is a jedi master in that mech and that mech alone..... All mech's CE is based on the skill nodes and quirks that mech carries.... Remember, you choose them and those nodes influence that mech's ability....... Ever worry that an un-skilled new mech you just purchased won't be competitive? CE removes that fear because the CE for the mech reflects the actual CE of that mech......and, compensates for the new mech smell.....

I don't see why we couldn't "select" a mech prior to drop, Because, CE wouldn't let you "exploit" the map selected !

[MrMadguy]

Avengar, on 22 October 2018 - 12:54 PM, said:

This isn't about balance, not sure how it's done, by tonage, skill or both, i just wish they would allow us to hot swap mech selection after map is chosen, i hate having to drop as a brawler on map designed for long range combat like polar highlands. Sometimes after the drop i just want to eject right away most of the time after getting beat up without doing much damage i just zerg in doing what i can until i die, then jump into another match right away

This is big part of a reason, why I've quit this game. I personally prefer brawler and mixed builds. And had got sick of constantly being completely useless, cuz game design caters to long range and open maps only make things much worse. It's simple. If you end up on Polar, then majority of players voted for, cuz they're... Guess what? LRM boats! And it means you're double screwed. Not only you're in completely ineffective build. Majority of other players has effective builds. And all good brawling maps are simply removed from game due to "this map doesn't support escort", lol.

[McGoat]

MrMadguy, on 23 October 2018 - 05:00 AM, said:

This is big part of a reason, why I've quit this game. I personally prefer brawler and mixed builds. And had got sick of constantly being completely useless, cuz game design caters to long range and open maps only make things much worse. It's simple. If you end up on Polar, then majority of players voted for, cuz they're... Guess what? LRM boats! And it means you're double screwed. Not only you're in completely ineffective build. Majority of other players has effective builds. And all good brawling maps are simply removed from game due to "this map doesn't support escort", lol.

Ummm - you're pretty much flat out wrong there.

PGI map design almost encourages brawls on almost every map by clear funneling to central locations.

Outside of Polar, even Alpine has well defined engagement areas that 90% of the player base rushes. I can count on one hand how many solo q games i've had that were ever played beyond 500 meters, and can probably safely say the same for beyond 400 meters.

Edited by McGoat, 23 October 2018 - 05:05 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

MrMadguy, on 23 October 2018 - 05:00 AM, said:

This is big part of a reason, why I've quit this game. I personally prefer brawler and mixed builds. And had got sick of constantly being completely useless, cuz game design caters to long range and open maps only make things much worse. It's simple. If you end up on Polar, then majority of players voted for, cuz they're... Guess what? LRM boats! And it means you're double screwed. Not only you're in completely ineffective build. Majority of other players has effective builds. And all good brawling maps are simply removed from game due to "this map doesn't support escort", lol.

than use a other Playstyle as Brawling ? the game not designed for one Playstyle...work with the Maps and build Mechs thats can stand good in each Area and not special White Elephants thats useless in 50%...its BATTLETECh and mECHWARRIOR ...not beatemUp or Brawlwarrior ...for thats its give enough other real FPS ...ARMA is not a Game for knifes , and its sad thats MWO more to FPS as Tactical shooter.

Battletech was never a Game for Balancewith all this Weapons and so never a Game for a real FPS like UT or CoD or CS, more a Battlefield without infantry only .
Not symetrical Maps and Esport Balance , each mech has other sizes ,Hitboxes ,Weaponconfigs ,Geometrys and Behaviour ,Timelines ,Clans & IS ,Techlevels...thats against a simple FPS

or will, you fly in War thunder with a MG only WKII fighter against a F22 ?and whining ...all unbalanced

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 23 October 2018 - 06:02 AM.

[Phoenix 72]

I do like the idea and have actually proposed something like that in the feature suggestion forum a while ago. I am also firmly against random maps. Frankly, the maps we have are already too random for my liking. If I had my say, you could choose a Mech, then pick the maps you are willing to play on and then wait for a match with 23 other likeminded people.

Forcing people to play on maps they are not prepared for does not make sense from a gameplay perspective. You are always going to have some frustrated players, which is counterproductive for a game that is supposed to be fun to play. The less annoyance factors there are, the more likely players are to stick around.

Not knowing which map you end up on also makes no sense for lore / roleplay reasons... "Hey, I have a mission for you, but I am not going to tell you where it is, what weapons would make sense and who will be fighting alongside you" said no Mech Commander ever. No sane person would ever hire on for a mission like that. Maybe faction loyalists, but no Mercenary. Ever. The minimum information people get is what climate to fight in.

If I could switch Mechs when polar comes up, chances are I would play a Kitfox or Nova and try to troll the lurmers.

[Eisenhorne]

I'd support it, because it would encourage variety of mechs used instead of the same old meta mechs in quick play. There's a reason the Deathstrike is considered the top of the heap in QP.... because it's an all-round solid mech. It's not extremely good at Polar / Alpine, and it's not extremely good at Solaris City or Mining Colony... but it's relatively solid at both. It's not going to be useless. It's a mid-range to long-ranged mech. Which is what you have to take to be consistently good at QP. You need to take all-round solid performers, or just accept that you'll potentially be less useful in some situations.

While if you could pick your mech to suit the map, you'd be more free to take brawlers or extreme range mechs depending on the map you're playing. You could pick jumping mechs if you're playing a map with more vertical space. There'd be an element of strategy in QP instead of just random chance. It's why I like FP more.

[DeskJockey]

Reading this I can imagine Polar Highlands being 12 v 12 LRM boats and AMS. It would be a site to see. Once.

[Eisenhorne]

DeskJockey, on 23 October 2018 - 09:28 AM, said:

Reading this I can imagine Polar Highlands being 12 v 12 LRM boats and AMS. It would be a site to see. Once.

Just like it is in Faction Play. And just like in Faction Play, I'm willing to bet most PUG players will still bring close range garbage mechs.

[TWIAFU]

justcallme A S H, on 23 October 2018 - 04:30 AM, said:

Shooting has little to do with it when your max range is 290m.

It's all about positioning and timing at that point. There is actually a lot of terrain to use and approach from, just requires a little effort.

Effort of thought I'd say. It is not like everyone knows exactly where either side will go and what they will bring...

Exploit that knowledge to your sides advantage and crush your enemy, it is very easy to do.

The hard part for most is the effort of thought and to put one and one together to force the outcome you want.

[SFC174]

I like the way map selection works right now, and I don't support being able to switch your mech in SoloQ.

I used to think that such changes would make the game better, but over time I learned that if you don't want to take a bracket build that is so-so on all maps, you can still be very successful if you just focus and be patient - particularly if you're a brawler/short range mech.

Almost every fight devolves eventually into up close battling. Whether its some lights rushing your long range mechs, or simply the inevitable march towards in your face combat that occurs with most players in most matches. I find that dropping on a map with a less than optimal build for that map (metavomit on Terra Therma, SRM brawler on Polar) tends to focus me more on playing to my strengths and waiting for my moment - to the extent that I have some of my best games on those maps (1200 dmg on Terra Therma in a metabringer for example).

Heck, my best KDR and WLR of any mech in my stable belongs to a MPL PHX-2C, and the KDRs on my MPL WLF-GR and a MG PIR are excellent as well. Not mechs that would appear to be suited for wide open, long range maps, but minimal armor and a close engagement range tend to get you focused fast.