20 replies to this topic

[GuardDogg]

I am trying to change the way battle are fought in QP (one reason why I get destroyed a lot). But the battles are always the same. I have put up being a commander, but more the half the team (meaning 10 other pilots), would refuse to follow orders (and complain, "What are you guys doing?"), and do same old tactics. Going center, flanking right (Nascar). Now I always say, the winning round is luck. Not by tactics, not by team play, not by what mech you have. Rounds are win by luck. Because no matter what side you're on. Tactics are the same, over and over again. All the maps, all the game types. Time is short for MWO in the next 6 months or what ever. Time to change to bring fun to this game (tactics). Use the maps fully, not just center, or circling in nascar manuaver.

[Shifty McSwift]

You can only do so much with what you have been given man, you aren't dealing with drilled recruits here, you can command/advise/provide intel, but if you aren't getting responses and the bulk seems to be ignoring you, then you kind of have to submit to it.

Mainly because you might be forgetting that some folks will be in a teamspeak/discord channel of their own, already communicating to one another, while some folks literally can't hear you (music on or muted etc), then there are some folks who don't want to "go first" (and sort of rightfully so, being a cheap ******* pays well here, being the "hero" not as much), and then you have the people that are literally using the others in their team and will only do anything if someone else starts it for them, which, if you get half a team of, makes for some sad stuff to watch.

Take is as a case by case thing, do your mic check and advising etc at the start, see if you get responses, if not, you might just have to go with the flow in those games.

[thievingmagpi]

Not gonna happen. Best you can do is worry about yourself. You can do 1500 damage and an Ace of Spades and your team will still find away to fail. It's going to happen. It's a function of so many things- match maker, tier system, pop size.

Find ways to have fun and contribute. That's really the best advice. Whip out some different builds. Try some meme mechs. There are a couple of mechs I have a blast in, they aren't carry mechs that's for sure but I have fun and still manage to contribute somewhat in them. I've moved more towards just focusing on fun and doing weird **** and it's been a lot more interesting.

[GuardDogg]

So, just pug, and let people yell at each other as usual. Or just do the same thing over and over since MWO been beta. Because for one, MWO is not going to get any better, or worse. The same tactics are going to be same for ever. I did try, but people refused.

Edited by GuardDogg, 12 November 2018 - 11:27 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

Most people block chat and voip because its too toxic.

Find a unit and play group q

[IronWatch]

In QP I have only come across a couple team-blaming whiners and none on voice, your mileage may vary. I don't know if I agree with OP's assessment that the taftics are apways exactly the same. Maybe in the same way a sword fight will usually usually nvolve two swords.

[Bud Crue]

GuardDogg, on 12 November 2018 - 11:26 PM, said:

So, just pug, and let people yell at each other as usual. Or just do the same thing over and over since MWO been beta. Because for one, MWO is not going to get any better, or worse. The same tactics are going to be same for ever. I did try, but people refused.

Well if not pugging is on the table of your options then, yes. Stop pugging. Join a group and play GQ or FP with other like minded individuals who are willing to try things your way, or frankly anyway, but doing so as a team. It helps. A lot. Even on those evenings where you end up against the same groups of superior opponents over and over (alas, it does happen given the population), its still a lot more fun playing with folks who you can count on not to outright screw the pooch.

[Nightbird]

QP is the most brainless mode in MWO, try the others.

[Obiwayne]

Voice chat is ur friend

[Eisenhorne]

Nightbird, on 13 November 2018 - 06:36 AM, said:

QP is the most brainless mode in MWO, try the others.

It is really fun to play it that way though. Just bring the biggest, nastiest LRM assault you can without backup weapons, and wander around at 50 KPH laying waste to things that dare to stand in the open, while you tell your team to "hold locks". it's the ultimate trollmech, because you troll both teams at the same time, while following the rules of the game enough that nobody can really report you. It's glorious.

[Jables McBarty]

GuardDogg, on 12 November 2018 - 09:14 PM, said:

I am trying to change the way battle are fought in QP (one reason why I get destroyed a lot). But the battles are always the same. I have put up being a commander, but more the half the team (meaning 10 other pilots), would refuse to follow orders (and complain, "What are you guys doing?"), and do same old tactics. Going center, flanking right (Nascar). Now I always say, the winning round is luck. Not by tactics, not by team play, not by what mech you have. Rounds are win by luck. Because no matter what side you're on. Tactics are the same, over and over again. All the maps, all the game types. Time is short for MWO in the next 6 months or what ever. Time to change to bring fun to this game (tactics). Use the maps fully, not just center, or circling in nascar manuaver.

I find I have much better luck "guiding" my team than "commanding" them. Use cooperative language "let's go to G6" or "how we take the top" rather than "Go to G6 and hold it."

Explain why something is bad rather than telling people not to do it.

If I'm tired of the NASCAR grind, I'll ask the team for strategies. Sometimes someone speaks up - then if you go with that, you're guaranteed to have two people coordinating. If nobody speaks up, I'll put something forward, ask for objections, and proceed. If three people follow you, another four or six are likely to do the same to keep with the deathball.

Commanding never works because (1) some people can't hear you, and (2) the people who can have no reason to listen to you. I don't know you from Adam, so why should I take your orders? I take orders from people I don't like all day at work. This is Solo Q, I'm here to have fun - my way.

If you do command, eventually you're going to have to be flexible with your plans and adapt to what the PUGs are doing anyway. Never say "no" to potatoes, as they'll just keep doing what they're doing. Instead, encourage the better half of the team to do what must be done to save the potatoes or capitalize on their deaths.

Case in point: I had a very interesting match on Terra Therma a couple weeks ago. Some dude called the drop (solo Q), and had us ball up in an ambush position. But three of our lights had been harassing and were already on the other side of the map.

First wrong move: Commander started haranguing them for being out of position.

Second bad move: Commander failed to capitalize on their distraction; especially when the lights were informing us on comms that the Reds were scattered and vulnerable.

Third bad move: He tried to say "no." About half team moved to assist the lights as they neared our position. Rather than have the whole team move as a deathball, the commander told the rescuers "no," - and none of them listened. I went along with the rescuers, because I knew they'd be going anyway, and b/c I disagreed w/ the callers failure to act on the the lights' distraction (and the fact that he was a **** to the lights for doing what they were doing before he ever articulated a strategy). We (the rescuers) ended up having an excellent position on the enemy, and with the other 4 'mechs could probably have won the brawl. Instead we were defeated in detail 12 vs 3, then 12 vs. 5, then 12 vs 4.

Moral of the story: Work with what you've got. Don't make the game 1 vs 23.

[Eisenhorne]

the biggest problem with calling a strategy is that you never know your team's composition or strengths, so any strategy you call is going to be a crapshoot. For example, if you're playing HPG, the common strategy of "take the top" is really only good if you have brawlers / mid range traders. If you have a bunch of LRM boats or ER Laser snipers on your team, it's not a good idea. Neither is Nascar, but good luck getting people to try to trade catwalk or say back and try to use their range. Or if you call a tunnel push on Crimson and half your team is long range again, or something like that. You really can't call an effective strategy in QP, because any strategy will require some kind of mech to do it, and you don't know if your team has that mech or not until it's too late.

[Alexandra Hekmatyar]

I've been doing drop calling in faction play for Marik for a long time and later other pugs that I liked for my groups, stopped a couple months ago since it's kinda useless.
Few times everyone listened or half and mostly just 1 or 2 which ended up that those 2 peeps get themselves killed because others were to afraid of pushing.

Monkey Lover, on 13 November 2018 - 01:45 AM, said:

Most people block chat and voip because its too toxic.

Dude have you seen the Battlefield chats?
Comparing to MWO, MWO community are angels.

[Novakaine]

Well drop by our TS.
We're always a fun bunch drunkard's and miscreants.
Except when Eisenhorne is with us.
He's way too serious except on Thursday nights

[MechaBattler]

12 randos will do, whatever 12 randos will do. I've had matches where someone was calling things and people coalesced into a fighting force. And then I've had the same thing happen and it just fell apart. I've even tried myself to organize people. And it's like herding cats. People won't follow basic instructions. They'll poke over ridges and get blown away by combined fire. They'll wander off on their own little ingenious plan only to end up dead a few seconds later.

But I've also seen things like a split actually working. Mostly because the enemy team didn't focus on one side and were widdled down from all sides. At the end of the day it's about bringing localized firepower greater than your enemy. Nascar makes that happen in an easy format.

If want to see different tactics. Find a group to play with. Preferably one open to different strategies.

[Moldur]

You have to get people on board with what you are doing and clearly communicate it. I've had some interesting matches before where maybe 3 or 4 guys with mics, including myself, suggest some stupid tactic and everyone agrees to it. For instance, we once all went tunnel on new Frozen City. Ended up winning that match, but there is no way we could do that by simply saying, "Everyone go tunnel."

It started off with, "Guys, I really miss old frozen city." *agreement*
"You know what would be funny? What if we all go tunnel?" *agreement*
"If this totally fails, at least it was fun." *agreement*

At the end of the day, it is about influencing your teammates and binding them together in a common goal. Shifting the goal to doing something fun/funny and imploring that they entertain you for just one match instead of prioritizing survival through conventional hivemind tactics gets people moving a lot better than just telling them "hey do this, hey do this, hey do this. Wow you guys suck."

People are very not apt to follow bad attitudes, especially when you hold no real authority over them.

Edited by Moldur, 13 November 2018 - 12:21 PM.

[Mystere]

I miss the early days. Many people back then knew that there was no "I" in "TEAMWORK". <shrugs>

[50 50]

Quickplay Group queue if you had a decent enough proportion of the team you could do some odd things in Skirmish mode on the maps.
Recall a few drops on Forest Colony taking the battle to somewhere unusual because you could.

[Klavo Hunter]

Moldur, on 13 November 2018 - 12:20 PM, said:

You have to get people on board with what you are doing and clearly communicate it. I've had some interesting matches before where maybe 3 or 4 guys with mics, including myself, suggest some stupid tactic and everyone agrees to it. For instance, we once all went tunnel on new Frozen City. Ended up winning that match, but there is no way we could do that by simply saying, "Everyone go tunnel."

It started off with, "Guys, I really miss old frozen city." *agreement*
"You know what would be funny? What if we all go tunnel?" *agreement*
"If this totally fails, at least it was fun." *agreement*

At the end of the day, it is about influencing your teammates and binding them together in a common goal. Shifting the goal to doing something fun/funny and imploring that they entertain you for just one match instead of prioritizing survival through conventional hivemind tactics gets people moving a lot better than just telling them "hey do this, hey do this, hey do this. Wow you guys suck."

People are very not apt to follow bad attitudes, especially when you hold no real authority over them.

Haha, I think I was there for that! I was the scout Kit Fox with LRMs who kept an eye out until the enemy wandered into the ambush zone after me.


As a mainly light 'Mech pilot, I find that I have a lot of power over how the team maneuvers, since they react to my scouting information, and of course the natural urge to follow the friendly dots on the map. I remember on Arctic Wasteland recently, I used Alpha Lance chat to organize the fast-movers into going left to hit the enemy nascar's own alpha lance head-on on purpose. Then once 3 of us were moving in the right direction I shared the plan with the rest of the team. Pulled out a win that time too.

[Shifty McSwift]

Did I also mention the chance for trolls deterring people from listening to commands also. Like the guy who yells push but never actually pushes himself, or the people who literally use the mic system to troll other players, like in the middle of a push the guy yelling help behind the team or my personal favorite the guy who yelled "there's a Thanatos behind you!" about 9 times while our team nascarred, I guess because his friends were on the other team and he wanted to stop the slaughter that was going on? I have no idea, but he kept yelling it and there was no thanatos even in the game.