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Are Crabs And Bushwackers Considered Meta?


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#1 Darakor Stormwind

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 12:59 PM

I recently started an alt account, because I wanted to take a look at the differences in games between my current T2 main and a new character. I was wondering how I would have done starting out if I had known what I do now, both in game related skill, and in which Mechs work for me and which do not.

So I did the Tutorial, bought a Crab 27 and started playing. Then bought a Bushwacker X1. I am doing really well (by my standards) with those Mechs and neither are fully skilled.

That made me wonder whether it is me or the Mechs that carry the performance. I mean my skill in comparison to the other T4 guys and gals I play against/with. I play the Crab with 2 LL, 3ML and 2 AMS. And the Bushwacker with 3 RAC2s. Can anybody tell me whether I am playing Meta or not? Because I do not know much about that...

#2 Ruccus

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 01:22 PM

They're both solid mechs (and that Crab build is what I have on my CRB-27), though their weaknesses will be exploited when you get to higher tiers. Because they're longer, narrower mechs they have a good front profile but if you find yourself out of position and flanked you can lose a side torso pretty quickly.

Just practise good positioning so you don't leave your side torsos exposed to a flanking maneuver and you should be fine. You'll probably feel right at home in a mech like the Marauder, though you might want to add a humanoid style mech to your stable to get a feel of proper torso twisting while you're still in the higher tiers.

Humanoid mechs need to 'show their shoulder' to an enemy to catch incoming damage instead of just the 'nose waggle' that's needed to spread damage in a non-humanoid mech like the Crab or Bushwacker. That means you need a much more aggressive move of the mouse and a build that opts for higher damage, longer cooldown weapons so you can fire, show a shoulder for four seconds, then turn back and fire again.

Edited by Ruccus, 22 November 2018 - 01:23 PM.


#3 Steel Raven

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 02:31 PM

I stop using the word Meta when Meta Mech stop updating, the 'Meta' just keeps changing depending on the current trend. Both the Crab and Bushwacker are great thanks to their slim profile helping you with spreading damage thus surviving. The Centurion and Assassin have good hitboxes as well.

The Griffin is still popular and the Wolverine is bouncing back but both have very wide shoulders that make then XL unfriendly without dumping allot of points in the survival tree.


IMO, hit box mechanics should get a total overhaul, at the very least brake up the torso to upper and lower vs one big target but that's something that we are not likely to see until hopefully the next incarnation of the game.

#4 Darakor Stormwind

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Posted 23 November 2018 - 04:30 AM

View PostRuccus, on 22 November 2018 - 01:22 PM, said:

You'll probably feel right at home in a mech like the Marauder, though you might want to add a humanoid style mech to your stable to get a feel of proper torso twisting while you're still in the higher tiers.


I have a Marauder. Not a bad Mech, but I prefer the Warhammer. I play both of them with virtually the same build, 2 LBX10 and 4ML, but have had a number of games where a couple of good shots (and mg crits) cost me my LBX10s in the Marauder. Weapon convergence is not as good on the Warhammer, but I feel it stays dangerous for longer. Just my feeling.

***EDIT: I have 30ish Mechs on my main, split across all weight classes and both Clan and IS. I generally prefer IS, though, due to their tankiness. ***

For straight up tanking I prefer the Roughneck 2A, mainly because it has a dead side.

Edited by Darakor Stormwind, 23 November 2018 - 04:32 AM.


#5 Brethren

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Posted 23 November 2018 - 07:27 AM

View PostDarakor Stormwind, on 22 November 2018 - 12:59 PM, said:

That made me wonder whether it is me or the Mechs that carry the performance. I mean my skill in comparison to the other T4 guys and gals I play against/with.


Short answer: Both! Posted Image

Longer answer: My guess is that your experience in both gameplay and mech builds contributes to your success.
I remember when I was new to the game and charged a Victor in my Stormcrow because I had no clue that the latter was an assault mech and a lot heavier than my puny medium. There's like what... 400 mechs in this game now? When I started I barely knew the trial mechs...

"New" players have a hard time getting into this game, because there is so much to know and it takes a while to gather all that knowledge. "Do you know what enemy mech you're looking at? How heavy is it? What weapons does that chassis usually carry? Is it fast? Can it jump? And ultimately: Is it wise to pick a fight with it?"
The same thing applies to your own mechs. "What weapons make a good combo? How do I utilize hardpoint number and locations? What about hitboxes and quirks? How do I move around the maps? Do I stick to the team or am I breaking off? And in the end: What is my preferred playstyle?"

I know normally people use the word skill. But in relation to other games "skill" in MWO emphasizes a lot more on "knowledge" and "experience" and a lot less on "reaction time" and "fast aiming accuracy".

A friend of mine experienced something similar to you. I tried to get him into the game, helped with builds and called for him in battles, but we were in group queue (different match making) and he had to learn the hard way how steep the learing curve in MWO is. It really hurt to see him get wrecked time and again by players who surely played a lot longer than him.
Afterwards though, I got occational text messages from him, describing that he came out of his Tier 5 solo queue games with things like 1k damage and 5 solo kills. For him learing the hard way definately paid off. Posted Image

Edited by Brethren, 23 November 2018 - 07:30 AM.


#6 Darakor Stormwind

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Posted 23 November 2018 - 10:18 AM

Well, I kinda feel like I am cheating. My match score is quite a lot higher than normally, despite not having a single Mech that is finished being skilled. I added a Warhammer (2 LBX10 and 4 ML) and a second Bushwacker (2 LBX 10 and 2 ERML) to my rotation. Should be able to finish all of them during the double exp weekend.

Then I can just play.

#7 Daggett

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 03:32 AM

View PostDarakor Stormwind, on 23 November 2018 - 10:18 AM, said:

Well, I kinda feel like I am cheating.

No wonder that it feels like cheating when you are playing against puppies who often can't move and aim at the same time and shutdown like there's no tomorrow. Posted Image

View PostDarakor Stormwind, on 22 November 2018 - 12:59 PM, said:

That made me wonder whether it is me or the Mechs that carry the performance.

It's the pilot that's the biggest factor on performance, but running a good build amplifies his/her skill. Of cause with an alt account sitting in lower tiers you are fighting much worse pilots than you, so your performance is supposed to be superior.

View PostDarakor Stormwind, on 22 November 2018 - 12:59 PM, said:

And the Bushwacker with 3 RAC2s. Can anybody tell me whether I am playing Meta or not? Because I do not know much about that...

The triple RAC2 Bushracker you are running is not considered meta because even in T1 QP most players don't know how to play facetime builds correctly. But in the right hands the Bushracker is probably one of the strongest builds available for soloing QP.

When i play a Bushracker it's already totally devastating in T1 QP environment, so if i would take it into T4/T5 matches i would probably cash in Ace of Spades like crazy. But i don't do this because as you already said, it would feel like cheating and i don't want to alienate the few new players this game gets by humiliating them. Posted Image

Edited by Daggett, 24 November 2018 - 04:03 AM.


#8 Darakor Stormwind

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 01:32 PM

Yeah, stopped playing the Raccer for now after I got it skilled. Still working on the Crab and my LBX boats.I am actually enjoying the lack of Nascar in the games.

I think I will try the Raccer more often in T2, again, though. I just stopped playing it because I was skilling other Mechs. I think I need to stop doing that, one way or another. I already own Mechs for every role. I should stop shopping for new stuff and just keep playing what I already own and enjoy. I keep chasing new and different Mechs. And then get frustrated with them. ;)

#9 Spinosapper

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 06:08 PM

I just got my first bushwacker this month, and it's doing quite well for me.

After playing dragons, cataphracts and victors for a while, that tight torso weapon convergence feels amazing.





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