36 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior 37]

(three weeks)

I've never seen it this bad.

EVERY MAP. EVERY GAME.

Why has it gotten this bad?

I've had to change mechs and up their engines just to stay in the pack.

It there any way to change this?

I've always thought if we stop, turn around and get in a firing line, it would be like "Crossing Their T" but no one seems able to do it.

I've stopped playing Faction but do they do it there?

Edited by Mechwarrior 37, 27 November 2018 - 08:29 AM.

[JediPanther]

Nascar is mostly a quick play thing. Fraction usually has small groups on voice coms with a lot of meta and builds that are good for trades and brawls so mindlessly circling the enemy doesn't do you any good there. In qp there isn't any real way to stop others from doing it but you can try using voice or the command wheel to take charge or team chat. Eventually you see the pattern of teams going to certain areas time after time and you can come up with ways to work around it.

[Maddermax]

It has been more obvious recently. I wonder if part of it is the recent heat changes - since you don’t need to stop to cool down as much any more, nascaring can be done faster and harder than previously, where the heat build up limited it more before.

JediPanther, on 27 November 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

Nascar is mostly a quick play thing. Fraction usually has small groups on voice coms with a lot of meta and builds that are good for trades and brawls so mindlessly circling the enemy doesn't do you any good there. In qp there isn't any real way to stop others from doing it but you can try using voice or the command wheel to take charge or team chat. Eventually you see the pattern of teams going to certain areas time after time and you can come up with ways to work around it.

Nascar doesn’t happen on Faction Play because of fixed respawn areas which means reinforcements shoot you in the back if you NASCAR around too much. Even all PUG matches during events rarely see much NASCAR because of that, at least in my little experience.

[Mechwarrior 37]

I stopped playing Faction. I'm betting some of them go Nascar also.

It is so annoying. 3 times this morning playing slower assaults mechs me and others were caught and killed. There is no more taking certain good positions or moving anywhere but to the right and in a circle. The map and match do not matter.

I now have a number of mechs I cannot use. If it is slow or if its weapons are mostly in its left torso it does not work well.

And I really wonder if it is a dumbing down of the game. "New" players learn this is the way you play MWO. No thoughts of tactics or strategy. If you want to play drunk, this is your MWO!

So what do I do? Should I stick with faster mechs that carry most of the weapons on their right side and join the herd of cats?

I'm always thinking. They are in a long column. Their lighter/faster mechs in the front. So we turn at a good place and set up a firing line (do you know a line from a column?).

If done right, you should have 6-8 on your team firing on 2-3 enemy mechs.

We have done this one time. One time out of hundreds.

Edited by Mechwarrior 37, 30 November 2018 - 04:57 AM.

[Mechwarrior 37]

I have totally different load outs for Solaris. I used to use 27-30 mechs mainly for Faction Warfare. For instance, 5-6 of them are set up for Conquest.

At least you can save your load outs now. I'm going to have to up engine some mechs, trading speed for firepower. Or just play faster mechs like my Hellbringers that I've not played in such a long time.

Move weapons to the right side or simply do not use that Mech at all.

I'd rather do Solaris....HA! PGI, I see your plan!

[Koniving]

You know, you could simply...not join the nascar?

I do this frequently, often to great success.

I wait somewhere between 1 or 2 minutes, let everyone do their thing, figure out where the enemy is and approach on my terms.
(As an assault I wait for less time, but also move at a slower pace to see how the lines are drawn before I pick up the pace.)

[nazgul090]

Nascar is the cancer of this game.
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[color=#000000]First step: switch position or spawn location with the enemy team, keeping a safe distance from one another. [/color]

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[color=#000000]Without purpose or any benefits, the two team will often trade their slower mech for free in this process.[/color]

[/color][/left]
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[color=#000000]Step two: pushing further right, everyone try to avoid being the one in the front line and the one left behind. The two team get closer in relation to how many player remains alive. [/color]

[/color][/left]
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[color=#000000]Step three: the 2 team collapse and brawl to death with a handful of players.[/color]

[/color][/left]


Every one try to **** their team mate, tries to avoid getting damaged and run in cricle in a brainless maner. Often the group jump on a low ground to the detriment of leaving a good firing line angle and leave assault behind.

Nobody try to trade on hes own or take iniative. Most of my team mate in solo Q would only peak if I do so and attempt to use me as meat shield in the process. Light mech dont do scouting, they just wait behind their assault for a killsteal, often block the retreat of the assault after he peaked.

[color=#222222][font=&amp]

Since the only aim in solo Q is to be the highest damage in the score tab, and feel good about it, nobody gives a **** about winning, the objective or their team mates.

[/font][/color][color=#222222][font=&amp][/font][/color]

The positioning skill in this game is to take engagement at the edge of your loadout effective range. But nobody realize it and keep nascaring, more then often dying with less then 200DMG because they got too close to the ennemies or were just too busy running in circle to shoot and do DMG.

At the opposite, I often counter nascar ALONE, I am super gressive, die first or second in my team and do top damage. I can do that because I use a good cover from wich I can trade against one enemy at a time, in the terms I decide, at the edge of my effective range, as quickly as possible in the game.
Again, I take this initiative alone, die FIRST and do TOP damage in my team. This defeat the purpose of nascaring and feeling safe by standing in the middle of the group, in a desperate attempt to do top damage by ******* over team mates.

If the few remaining player of this game could realize that nascar is ****, the game would be much more enjoyable.

On another note, you can take a look into my guide:
https://mwomercs.com...zgul090s-guide/

**** nascar, sincerly


nazgul090

[Mechwarrior 37]

Beautiful.....


I'm just not that good of a player. I hate NASCARing and often simply will not do it.

Often joining the last few mechs in our stream making a stand against their Nascar. But since the 9 of our teammates left us alone, we get reamed by them.

[Mechwarrior 37]

Koniving, on 30 November 2018 - 09:15 AM, said:

You know, you could simply...not join the nascar?

I do this frequently, often to great success.

I wait somewhere between 1 or 2 minutes, let everyone do their thing, figure out where the enemy is and approach on my terms.
(As an assault I wait for less time, but also move at a slower pace to see how the lines are drawn before I pick up the pace.)

I will watch this but......35 years ago I could show you how to play basketball, football or volleyball. And I learned his by watching and getting coaching.

But at this point in my life and this being my first and only "shooter video game" (I can show you how to shoot real guns) I'm never going to be you. Or 15,000 other players in this game.

I know my positioning is poor etc. And that makes a big difference. THAT I should be able to learn but can't seem to.

But shooting, reflexes and aiming will always be hard for me. I'm seen first and I'm often shot before I see anyone. And I literally cannot shoot well enough to save my own life.

That is one reason I did some Solaris. But 80% of my wins were through legging and you cannot do that while NASCARING...or while the other team is together etc.

What I would like to see is a stand made. Find a good position, stay there and take out the first 2-4 enemy mechs roaring up on you with consideration of terrain etc with fire from 7-8 of yours. Their assaults would be in their rear while yours would be in front with your faster mechs flanking one side of the enemy to further disrupt their "attack".

I need to get back off the forums, it makes me even crazier.

Edited by Mechwarrior 37, 02 December 2018 - 07:20 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

PGI needs to change up the spawn locations for Charlie lance so they are the same for BOTH sides.

I believe most complaints are generated due to assault spawn location on one side, the side where the Charlie (assault lance) spawns on the far right. If PGI would simply update the spawn points so that assaults spawn on the far right or middle for both sides, nascar complaints would plummet. It would not disappear

[Mechwarrior 37]

Uh...I've seen that video and it has nothing to do with NASCARing.

The worst maps for it are HPG, Caustic etc. Frozen City has little NASCARing although I've seen it.

[Mechwarrior 37]

Tarl Cabot, on 02 December 2018 - 07:21 AM, said:

PGI needs to change up the spawn locations for Charlie lance so they are the same for BOTH sides.

I believe most complaints are generated due to assault spawn location on one side, the side where the Charlie (assault lance) spawns on the far right. If PGI would simply update the spawn points so that assaults spawn on the far right or middle for both sides, nascar complaints would plummet. It would not disappear

The "problem" is that most people are right-handed. This is why people lost in the woods without a compass will often walk in a large circle.

This is why racecar driving goes counter clockwise. I do not think spawns "really" matter, I know what you are talking about but players do not even look where they have dropped anymore. It does not matter. I remember playing this game where wanted 'the high ground" or other good positions.

Now they just run to the right in a circle. IMO it is a complete dumbing down of the game. I remember players talking about it a lot but I never really did it (I used to also play a lot of Faction).

If you take out a slower assault mech, in a percentage of games on certain maps, you will have a hard time.

[Koniving]

Mechwarrior 37, on 02 December 2018 - 07:18 AM, said:

I will watch this but......35 years ago I could show you how to play basketball, football or volleyball. And I learned his by watching and getting coaching.

But at this point in my life and this being my first and only "shooter video game" (I can show you how to shoot real guns) I'm never going to be you. Or 15,000 other players in this game.

I know my positioning is poor etc. And that makes a big difference. THAT I should be able to learn but can't seem to.

But shooting, reflexes and aiming will always be hard for me. I'm seen first and I'm often shot before I see anyone. And I literally cannot shoot well enough to save my own life.

That is one reason I did some Solaris. But 80% of my wins were through legging and you cannot do that while NASCARING...or while the other team is together etc.

What I would like to see is a stand made. Find a good position, stay there and take out the first 2-4 enemy mechs roaring up on you with consideration of terrain etc with fire from 7-8 of yours. Their assaults would be in their rear while yours would be in front with your faster mechs flanking one side of the enemy to further disrupt their "attack".

I need to get back off the forums, it makes me even crazier.

I'm considered to be a terrible player if you listen to the more arrogant side of the forums. Its merely opportunity. Press R to target things (preferably before you reach them), once you have the information and the weak spot, go for it. Guy has a leg that's about to break, break it. Guy's belly is open and orange? Make it red, make it dead. A combination of a big punch (the PPCs) and damage-per-second pepper spray (the machine guns) ensure that I'm doing damage no matter what, so no down time. That's what lets me charge in. The fact that they are weakened already allows me to mop up.

There's not much skill needed for that.

So when you go to engage the enemy, the first thing is to know that you don't have to go full speed. Think of it like hunting, or if you have any military experience, just be cautious in enemy territory. Unlike real life, you can see enemies long before they can see you. If you see any kind of triangles in the distance, press R, get their distance and you can use how they are moving to get a rough guess to which way they are facing. This won't help against an ambush where one turns out to be six (been there, done that), but it will against single enemies. Surprise will always help in your favor.

Another method that may help, is to unlock a little bit in the sensors skill tree. Specifically the "Seismic" scanner. When stationary, anything in close range will appear. This is helpful whenever you stop in cover or stop to plan your next move.

Although old, the very first response to this short-question short-answer thread has a lot of useful tips that are still relevant, including the concept of being "committed." It is perhaps the most important thing; think of it like Black Hawk Down. In any given fight you can back your way out of it; but for every fight there is also a point of no return in which either you kill the enemy or they kill you. When you can recognize and avoid that point, or see it and know you're past it, you'll find that determination and keeping calm will increase your chance of success no matter how marginal it may be.

Edit: What I'm talking about specifically is in the spoiler at the bottom of that post, the "update." It even goes into a rough idea of how some of the new weapons would work, 5 years before we got them.

For example, if an enemy is committed and they try to back out, its far too late and any attempt to run will just cause it to die faster. If you must die, die fighting.

This was a three on one fight.

Spoiler

Against a 65 ton LRM catapult.
A 95 ton Banshee
A 35 ton Firestarter
As an 85 ton Stalker, so tonnage wise I'm outclassed by 110 tons and two pilots.



I lived. Killed two out of three and the smallest one chose to go for easier prey and died soon after, which sucks because while I still had weapons I tried to pot shot him while twisting against the Banshee's big weapons but missed and saw someone's stray laser finish him.

The key to any fight is to keep calm, collected, and just complete the tasks before you. Destroy what will take away most of their weapons faster and once they are neutered, finish them.

Again, simply don't join the Nascar. Exploit it.
If you do have trouble with being on the front line, have you considered going second line? Just don't completely commit to long range, always have some means of close range defense. This was the first time I ran an Archer, you might like it.

Edited by Koniving, 02 December 2018 - 08:46 AM.

[Mechwarrior 37]

My Archer is an SRM boat. I do not see very well. I used to always have an LRM 5 on my mechs with no ammo just to give me "something" to fire at.

And I do not think LRMs work in NASCARing at all.

The next time you get on a map like HPG etc and the teams are really NASCARing (I forgot you are English I think, Nascar is an American thing). When you are really chasing each other in a real NASCAR, show me how you turn around and stop the other team. I'm 82% sure that moving slowly into a Nascar match will put you in the middle of the other team.

Show me and I will believe it.

[Mechwarrior 37]

I'm letting go the "link" between a Nascar match in MWO and Black Hawk Down.

[Koniving]

I'm American. Actually don't live far from Daytona but the point of the video wasn't to showcase Nascar but what I do instead of participating in one. To be honest NASCAR doesn't happen much when I play and even when it does I don't really notice or pay attention to it. If anything the most common tactic I see my teams do is make a B-line right for the middle right into enemy fire which is why I wait and approach on my terms.

If they Nascar even when I do notice it I just kick up my feet and wait for them to make contact and if I find it first I use the command wheel to point out the enemy. The whole team just suddenly shouts "Squirrel!" And they rush in.

You can't control what they do just how you handle it. Keep cool calm and collected like HowToBasic would....

Let things happen and react to it. You can even try to influence it by reporting spotted enemies.
The lrms arent any good if your team is just running a circle never encountering the enemy. But if they are guided to it the missiles can bombard them on your way over to catching up (after all if you wait/refuse to join the nascar then you are farther away than they will be when they do eventually find the enemy).
-------------

Black hawk down and the NASCAR thing are NOT linked. BHD is mentioned as an example of being committed (the situation of being "committed". When an assault or slower much is in a situation where escape from combat is impossible) which is brought up as a specific example of a specific tip from many tips that I gave as a link with gaming tips for mwo and has nothing to do with NASCAR just helping you improve overall.

Here are two examples of being committed.
Skip to 7 minutes. Note when when I start backing up my team moves in. At that point we became committed to the fight.
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=ZyO0euUCzUA
And on this second one though it is not as an assault skip to 5:30. When I encounter the Battlemaster I am refusing to commit to that fight. However the Jenner engages me and a Cicada follows. I chose to stand my ground and at that point I could still flee, but as soon as my leg is broken I am committed.
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=UyDYAgK9XTk
Again you need only watch from the stated points until I either die or defeat my immediate attackers.

[justcallme A S H]

Some of what us being said in here is outright rubbish as usual.

I mean we have everyone's favorite stat tanker, who does this to farm Tier 5 players to look 'good' giving out silly pieces of advice as usual.
I mean of COURSE you can stand still and farm Tier 5 players... That shows nothing about actual ability.


Honestly always look up Jarls List when people are giving advice. If you lose more than you win, guess what...

And yes the NASCAR is getting worse because if all the low skill players in the game going up while good ones stop.

The population doesn't understand the best way to win is to actually not do that for 'angles' or whatever excuse they use to justify.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 03 December 2018 - 11:41 PM.

[Khobai]

justcallme A S H, on 03 December 2018 - 11:43 PM, said:

And yes the NASCAR is getting worse because if all the low skill players in the game going up while good ones stop.

Wrong. Even if PGI completely reworked the tier system and placed everyone in the correct tier according to skill youd still see nascar occur in every single tier.

Nascar isnt happening because people are in the wrong tiers. Its happening because the gamemodes and maps encourage it. The single life gamemodes encourage picking off the other team's biggest/slowest mechs first. And quite a few of the maps revolve around a single centrally located structure/terrain feature which creates the circular flow for nascar. Theres also a general lack of communication in quickplay and nascar has become the default strategy of sorts for everyone to follow.

You dont see nascar happen on conquest for example. Because the static objectives lock the teams into fixed positions to protect the objectives theyve captured and teams cant afford to go chasing eachother around in endless circles. Nascar only happens in gamemodes where the objective is killing the other team... namely skirmish and its dervative gamemodes like conquest and domination. Skirmish has always been the problem, its just not a good gamemode. Im not saying get rid of it skirmish completely; just get rid of it as the main gamemode. Conquest is closer to the experience people want from MWO.

Edited by Khobai, 04 December 2018 - 12:23 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Khobai, on 04 December 2018 - 12:13 AM, said:

Wrong. Even if PGI completely reworked the tier system and placed everyone in the correct tier according to skill youd still see nascar occur in every single tier.

Nascar isnt happening because people are in the wrong tiers. Its happening because the gamemodes and maps encourage it. The single life gamemodes encourage picking off the other team's biggest/slowest mechs first. And quite a few of the maps revolve around a single centrally located structure/terrain feature which creates the circular flow for nascar. Theres also a general lack of communication in quickplay and nascar has become the default strategy of sorts for everyone to follow.

You dont see nascar happen on conquest for example. Because the static objectives lock the teams into fixed positions to protect the objectives theyve captured and teams cant afford to go chasing eachother around in endless circles. Nascar only happens in gamemodes where the objective is killing the other team... namely skirmish and its dervative gamemodes like conquest and domination. Skirmish has always been the problem, its just not a good gamemode. Im not saying get rid of it skirmish completely; just get rid of it as the main gamemode. Conquest is closer to the experience people want from MWO.

People who don't know what they're doing are less likely to dropcall, less likely to listen to other people, and less likely to do anything but nascar..

Nascaring is encouraged by how a lot of maps are laid out, but it tends to be a default behavior which is supplanted by experience/knowledge/a good caller suggesting other approaches.

That, in turn, causes players who know better to nascar as well. If your team is going to behave in a certain way regardless, your best bet is to play in a way which takes advantage of the situation that will create. If you know how your team is going to behave based on their movements early on, can make a good guess as to what the enemy team will do, and can confirm that guess with early scouting, you can exploit it.

If you're fast, that means out-nascaring to catch the enemy trailers. QP is full of spud assaults who have a hard time dealing with lights and competent poke. Just avoid names you recognize as competent and anyone carrying a build dangerous enough to overcome bad aim, slow reflexes, and poor situational awareness. If you're not fast, still out-nascar, but cut the middle and start harassing the enemy nascar from a side angle.

Either way, the enemy nascar slows down, making it harder for them to kill your trailing spuds, making it easier for your nascar to catch them, and generally splitting their forces up. If a lance or so split off to squirrel after you, even better, call that **** out about half a dozen times and in the off chance that your team listens, that's often enough for a sound victory.

[TheCaptainJZ]

People complain about Nascar but the game simply lends itself to it.
1. If you stand still, you're dead.
2. If you are alone, you're dead.
3. The best way to defeat the enemy is to flank them. Staring down the enemy is a good way to die.
4. Nascar'ing is a perpetual flanking maneuver.
5. Most maps have a central point with which to circle around.

What is the alternative? Jump sniping was a thing so that got nerfed because it wasn't fun to go against. Most players hate the poking game too. What kind of combat do you want?