36 replies to this topic

[justcallme A S H]

Khobai, on 04 December 2018 - 12:13 AM, said:

Wrong. Even if PGI completely reworked the tier system and placed everyone in the correct tier according to skill youd still see nascar occur in every single tier.

Nascar isnt happening because people are in the wrong tiers. Its happening because the gamemodes and maps encourage it. The single life gamemodes encourage picking off the other team's biggest/slowest mechs first. And quite a few of the maps revolve around a single centrally located structure/terrain feature which creates the circular flow for nascar. Theres also a general lack of communication in quickplay and nascar has become the default strategy of sorts for everyone to follow.

You dont see nascar happen on conquest for example. Because the static objectives lock the teams into fixed positions to protect the objectives theyve captured and teams cant afford to go chasing eachother around in endless circles. Nascar only happens in gamemodes where the objective is killing the other team... namely skirmish and its dervative gamemodes like conquest and domination. Skirmish has always been the problem, its just not a good gamemode. Im not saying get rid of it skirmish completely; just get rid of it as the main gamemode. Conquest is closer to the experience people want from MWO.

Actually no I'm not wrong. I am bang on the money.

What I said is factually true and easily proven but I don't wanna do that yet again and embarrass you silly for a 10th time I think?

NASCAR still happens on Conquest. To claim it doesn't shows just blind ignorance. But then you post more than you play. I play more than I post... I know who I'd believe.

[Kubernetes]

Mechwarrior 37, on 02 December 2018 - 07:24 AM, said:

Uh...I've seen that video and it has nothing to do with NASCARing.

Don't sweat it, that dude is a horrible spud who posts the same videos over and over. Listening to him will bring you lots of grief.

Regarding Nascar, it simply is. You can get on comms and try to get get teammates to do differently, but you have to watch your minimap closely. If people don't comply or if only a few do, you could be sitting out exposed while the enemy Nascar rolls right over you.

[Tamerlin]

New players are "taught" to move towards their assaults, who typically are in the right most lance. This creates a general circular motion of the team. And since you want concentration of fire you stay together.

However, do not confuse "Nascar" with "flanking". I invite you to view the "MWO Tactics 101 Comics" thread.

[Khobai]

justcallme A S H, on 04 December 2018 - 11:42 AM, said:

Actually no I'm not wrong. I am bang on the money.

What I said is factually true and easily proven but I don't wanna do that yet again and embarrass you silly for a 10th time I think?

NASCAR still happens on Conquest.

lmao youre utterly incapable of embarrassing me. because I dont care and nobody else does either. thats the reality of the internet. so stop trying to get into a pissing match with me.

and if its so easily proven how come you havent been able to prove it? your statements arnt backed up with any empirical evidence whatsoever. Its just your opinion and your opinion is wrong.

wheres the proof that fixing the tier system will get rid of nascaring? it wont. Even if you placed every single player perfectly into the tier they belong in, youd still have nascaring in every single tier except for maybe the highest tier, which will contain so few players, theyll struggle to find games. All it will do is further divide an already eroded player base. its a terrible idea. you cant get rid of nascaring that way. the only way to get rid of nascaring is to remove the whole reason people nascar in the first place. Theyre not nascaring because theyre in the wrong tier. Theyre nascaring because the maps/gamemodes/lack of communication create an environment for nascaring to become the ideal default strategy for your average lazy gamer.

your whole "brilliant" idea is basically to segregate yourself from players who nascar by walling yourself off from them with a more restrictive tier system so you can pretend the problem doesnt exist. Youre not actually fixing the problem of nascar lmao. And youre creating new problems by making the tier system much more restrictive, and its been proven numerous times that adding more buckets hurts the game far more than it helps.

And yeah admittedly nascar can still happen occasionally in conquest. I probably shouldnt have said it it never happens, that was bad phrasing. But it does happen noticeably less. And the only reason it still happens in conquest is because you can win conquest by killing the enemy team. nascar can happen in any skirmish based gamemode. Because skirmish as the primary win condition is the whole problem. Its a crappy gamemode/wincon and as long as skirmish exists you will have nascar. PGI needs to fix why people nascar, and eliminate it entirely, not just divide the player base into those who know better than to nascar and those who dont.

its so obvious that all you care about is improving the game for yourself. you dont care about improving it for everyone. youre completely out of touch with everyone else who plays this game. just like when you were trying to convince everyone we needed x3 PPC/Gauss and poptarting back in the game. You were completely out of touch with the player base back then too. Did you ever think maybe PGI doesnt listen to you because they know that? Thats why your ideas never materialize into anything.

justcallme A S H, on 04 December 2018 - 11:42 AM, said:

But then you post more than you play. I play more than I post... I know who I'd believe.

Thats whats troubling. For someone who plays so much you should know better that the tier system isnt the cause of nascaring nor is a more restrictive tier system the solution. The fact you havent realized that isnt really helping your case.

Edited by Khobai, 04 December 2018 - 02:22 PM.

[Vlad Striker]

When some thing stand in the center, other things will be rotating around the first thing. Even solar system do this. Only iron will can prevent nascaring reflexes.

Edited by Vlad Striker, 04 December 2018 - 01:40 PM.

[Maddermax]

Some maps have a built in Nascaring layout too - see Canyon Network. If you try to rotate left, you can only do so over a very narrow shoulder, in single file, which will get you killed. If you rotate right, however, you can drop into the canyon to allow more mechs through, crush opposition on the ramp using the canyon wall as cover with support from that rock shoulder above, and move up to a good peeking situation on the ramp to shoot enemies in the open. Then, once you've gotten there, you're in danger of having the opposition do the same thing to you, so you move up, and you go through the center (often into a firing line), or you rotate right again.

Those narrow shoulders and one direction ramps create something almost like a ratchet wheel, allowing rotation in one direction, blocking it in the other. Some other maps have it to lesser extents, but that one is most obvious.

The only thing that stops the rotation is significant support from the outskirts, and if one team stops and the other doesn't.... well, death follows quickly.

Edited by Maddermax, 05 December 2018 - 02:43 AM.

[Pfuscher1]

People that are whining about nascar:
1. Oh I will have so good stats with my Aussault and Std Engine 250. Everybody will look at me speechless. I'm so smart.
2. I got an assault, but I'm not good enough a player to look at the radar.

Nascar=right side storming were documented in the wars of the ancient greeks and go well beyond that.
Most people are right handed.

[justcallme A S H]

Lol...

[Prototelis]

My advice;

Learn the like two spots on each map the engagement is likely to take place. Take the shortest route that provides the most hard cover. If that doesn't work up your engine or play better assaults.

The nascar is powerful. Its the easiest strategy to employ that doesn't require a lot of communication and most mechs are better suited for right side peeks.

[crazytimes]

My biggest issue is in trying to build a mech stable, I haven't had the spare credits to spend on engines. Most of my heavier stuff is way under engined for qp NASCAR meta. Wrong spawn position means death.

I get why people rotate. Safety in numbers and all that. It really does just punish the slower mechs on your team though. I will embrace the meta though and slowly upgrade engine until I too can run in circles with glee and gay abandon. At the moment I think my assaults are running about 0.8 for wins and KD. A little embarrassing, but at least I realise I suck and need to learn and adjust.

[General Solo]

Shake and Bake

[Mechwarrior 37]

Tamerlin, on 04 December 2018 - 12:30 PM, said:

New players are "taught" to move towards their assaults, who typically are in the right most lance. This creates a general circular motion of the team. And since you want concentration of fire you stay together.

However, do not confuse "Nascar" with "flanking". I invite you to view the "MWO Tactics 101 Comics" thread.

A number of times the assaults have to try to catch the rest of them. There is not a concentration of fire because the team is now strung out in a long column.

OMG, (nothing personal) but did you just ask me if I know the difference between NASCARing and FLANKING?

[Mechwarrior 37]

Pfuscher1, on 05 December 2018 - 04:57 AM, said:

Nascar=right side storming were documented in the wars of the ancient greeks and go well beyond that.
Most people are right handed.

I'd love for you to break that down for me. (hint) It is not their right-hand holding and using the spear. It is the Sheild in their left hand that causes a formation to veer left. (do you know why?)

And later when Alexander the Great came along, he used a number of tactics.

FLANKING was not something that Hoplites did. Their battles had "rules" and Hoplites for a number of reasons would have a hard time doing it. They also used no missile weapons in these battles.

I was once going to write a breakdown of MWO players who play like a Hoplite formation and those that fight more like the tactics of the 2nd Peloponnesian War.

Edited by Mechwarrior 37, 20 December 2018 - 09:16 AM.

[Smutty]

Just get good 4Head

For real though. There's some maps out there that have a natural tendency to turn into NASCAR fests. Caustic Valley stands out as the quintessential Saturday Night Lights, but there's a difference between NASCAR and making a rotation. I feel like more rotations happen due to something in the centre of the engagement prohibiting a frontal assault (never mind that a lot of head-on pushes can be rebutted fairly easily if your team isn't ********). For instance, you see some rotational play on Polar Domination, Canyon Network (any game mode really), River City around the Citadel, and so on.

As far as dealing with NASCAR, you can either try to counter-rotate and meet the enemy in a slanted engagement or rotate faster than they can and cull their fatties before they get yours. Which tactic is appropriate depends on your composition and how coordinated you are. But this is also Yolo Queue so it's all up in the air 90% of the time

[Gully D]

justcallme A S H, on 04 December 2018 - 11:42 AM, said:

Actually no I'm not wrong. I am bang on the money.

What I said is factually true and easily proven but I don't wanna do that yet again and embarrass you silly for a 10th time I think?

NASCAR still happens on Conquest. To claim it doesn't shows just blind ignorance. But then you post more than you play. I play more than I post... I know who I'd believe.

You do not leave friend s on the battle field, if you do your doing a trump

[Tarl Cabot]

Tamerlin, on 04 December 2018 - 12:30 PM, said:

New players are "taught" to move towards their assaults, who typically are in the right most lance. This creates a general circular motion of the team. And since you want concentration of fire you stay together.

However, do not confuse "Nascar" with "flanking". I invite you to view the "MWO Tactics 101 Comics" thread.

That is incorrect. Except for a map or two where assaults spawn in between Alpha/Bravo, one side has assaults on the LEFT side while the other side will have assaults on the RIGHT side. PGI in their wisdom believed Charlie lance will move forward to engage Charlie lance, etc, etc

[Mechwarrior 37]

Tarl Cabot, on 21 December 2018 - 07:48 AM, said:

That is incorrect. Except for a map or two where assaults spawn in between Alpha/Bravo, one side has assaults on the LEFT side while the other side will have assaults on the RIGHT side. PGI in their wisdom believed Charlie lance will move forward to engage Charlie lance, etc, etc

THANK YOU! I was seeing this last night and you explained it so much better.

I just got my 3rd request to write about the Hoplites and MWO....lol,