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Why Mw5 Will Be A Flop


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#1 drunkblackstar

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 09:24 PM

What can we tell from MW5 gameplay video shown at Mechcon 2018?

1) The intro was great

2) The part in Mechlab when the player as a pilot moves through the stacks of mechs was awesome - 100% loved it and felt the immense desire to giveaway my money for it.

3) The gameplay... Well, here goes the BAD part.

The gameplay was dull and absolutely unimpressive.

It felt hollow, unemotional and - worst of all - simplified. The map reminded green uninhabited desert. I couldn't believed that someone could leave in the midst of this artificial staged land. It made an impression of empty and dull space.

The mechanics of mech itself disappointed. We didn't see arms moving (arm lock probably) and even torso twisting. It was overly primitive.

The animation of weapons and damage taken were low level. LRMs in MWO have far better effects - like smoke trail etc.

It's useful to compare the intro (King Crab against Victor) with the gameplay to realize whats wrong with the later.

Victor in the Intro felt real. Every bit of it was moving and radiated the true feeling of giant war mechanism.

When mechs fired the weapon in the Intro you got that cool feeling of weapon and destruction enjoyment.

When you saw the damage - the broken arm plates, scratches and hot dots left by the lasers - you believed it.

But in the gameplay all those effects were diminished by x10.

I do hope that I'm wrong and my prediction wouldn't come true. Maybe PGI will fix those issues before the release in sept 2019.

But now I have a bad feeling about it.

#2 MechaBattler

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 09:40 PM

So mostly superficial complaints. I'm worried that it'll be so lacking in story that after an hour it's just repetitive grinding. Though hopefully they do provide the modding support they promised. So passionate people can fix the superficial features and add more story to the game.

#3 Jackal Noble

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 09:43 PM

View PostMechaBattler, on 01 December 2018 - 09:40 PM, said:

So mostly superficial complaints. I'm worried that it'll be so lacking in story that after an hour it's just repetitive grinding. Though hopefully they do provide the modding support they promised. So passionate people can fix the superficial features and add more story to the game.

Yep. This is a huge, huge piece that they better or would be wise to invest in to win back their player base. Look at what Battletech did. Mediocre optimized game, with decent mechanics but really neat way of story telling, at least at first.

#4 Jackal Noble

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 09:46 PM

Ideally it will have primary type objectives, bonus objectives in mission.

Side/branching missions. Maybe even flashpoint esque type missions.

Further bolstered by accumulation tracking on vehicle and mech type kills, further bolstered by bonus/ armor weapon mods when a certain # of kills is reached.

Also people love achievements. This game had better have a boatload of achievements.

#5 Pariah Devalis

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 09:47 PM

Re: the mech movement:

From what I understand, the original idea was to include pedals in the simpits, but that never happened. Combined with a HOTAS setup for controls, "clunky" would not even be close to describing how it must feel to try and pilot in one of those. You'd ideally want a 5-axis joystick and a hat switch on the throttle at the minimum to compensate for a lack of foot input, in which case turning the mech would be done by twisting the stick. Torso twist did happen but it was uncommon in the video. I'd assume the control for that was, again, clunky to use, as moving the stick seemed to steer the mech and pitch torso up/down only.

If they went with a HOTAS simpit setup, they'd ideally have:
  • Pedals for turning left/right
  • Depress both pedals for jump jets
  • Move joystick for torso/arm movement
  • Multi-function hat switch on throttle for radar
  • Additional buttons on throttle for override/power up/future feature items like MASC
  • Hat switch on joystick to interact with weapon groups
  • Trigger for group one
  • 5 additional joystick buttons for weapon groups 2-6
But lacking pedals, it forces one control interface to do both legs and torso. It isn't delinked, which is problematic. It makes it a lot clunkier and a lot harder to manipulate with any sort of precision. That, and if you're used to playing a game with a mouse, your aim is gonna be waaaay off with a joystick.


My biggest concern will be with the AI. It might have been simplified for the simpit/mechcon experience, but if you're gonna be fighting AI exclusively, they need to be up to snuff. It seemed extremely simplistic to my untrained eyes.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 01 December 2018 - 09:55 PM.


#6 Y E O N N E

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 09:54 PM

> Objective of mission is to save the town

> Runs through all the buildings and not a word from the game

gg ez NPC murder simulator.

#7 Jackal Noble

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 10:02 PM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 01 December 2018 - 09:54 PM, said:

> Objective of mission is to save the town

> Runs through all the buildings and not a word from the game

gg ez NPC murder simulator.

Totally.. Destruction is cool, but some type of check or penalty to incentivize not wrecking an entire city just to kill a single mech might make more sense.

#8 Nightbird

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 10:05 PM

If no mechlab then flop. I don't see it being bad with a mechlab.

#9 Y E O N N E

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 10:07 PM

View PostJackal Noble, on 01 December 2018 - 10:02 PM, said:

Totally.. Destruction is cool, but some type of check or penalty to incentivize not wrecking an entire city just to kill a single mech might make more sense.


It adds both strategic and tactical depth.

My fear is that the AI is going to be cheap. Either too stupid to amount to much of a threat or accurate beyond human ability with their damage placement to be an overly dangerous and frustrating threat. It won't be about having to systematically dismantle an enemy force by targeting support mechanisms before attacking the main body, with constant worry of running into an enemy patrol and tripping reinforcements, etc.

It really seems like you can basically just own the game by spamming LRMs or AC/2s in every mission.

#10 Jackal Noble

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 10:10 PM

View PostNightbird, on 01 December 2018 - 10:05 PM, said:

If no mechlab then flop. I don't see it being bad with a mechlab.

But different. The interesting dynamic this game can afford is time management depending on equipment to install, paired with travel in system ala Battlemech plus salvage. There is a lot of potential to make this aspect awesome. In fact better than the HBS iteration.

#11 UnofficialOperator

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 10:12 PM

Personally I don't think MW5 will be a flop.

I believe that there is a trend towards Single Player games as gamers will be trying to avoid all the toxicity (ironical I know) from forced pvp.

As long as they can make SP engaging... there is no need for online play.

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 01 December 2018 - 10:13 PM.


#12 Nightbird

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 10:13 PM

View PostJackal Noble, on 01 December 2018 - 10:10 PM, said:

But different. The interesting dynamic this game can afford is time management depending on equipment to install, paired with travel in system ala Battlemech plus salvage. There is a lot of potential to make this aspect awesome. In fact better than the HBS iteration.


You're saying with a mechlab right?

#13 Y E O N N E

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 10:13 PM

View PostJackal Noble, on 01 December 2018 - 10:10 PM, said:

But different. The interesting dynamic this game can afford is time management depending on equipment to install, paired with travel in system ala Battlemech plus salvage. There is a lot of potential to make this aspect awesome. In fact better than the HBS iteration.


Speaking of time, I feel like dropping one of your other 'Mechs and swapping into it mid-mission would be a more lore-friendly mechanic than the repair station bolting some new armor onto you in a handful of seconds. If we have to deal with repair and re-arm between missions, those lightning field repairs during missions are mechanically inconsistent.

#14 Nightbird

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 10:14 PM

View PostUnofficialOperator, on 01 December 2018 - 10:12 PM, said:

Personally I don't think MW5 will be a flop.

I believe that there is a trend towards Single Player games as gamers will be trying to avoid all the toxicity (ironical I know) from forced pvp.

As long as they can make SP engaging... there is no need for online play.


They have AI in MW5. If they had AI in MWO it would be golden, people can PvE all they want.

#15 JediPanther

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 10:17 PM

I expect it to be more minimal effort pgi normal level of development. Looking at pc gamer's citation of a September 19-20th release next year for mw5 I can wait til December of 2019 or the year after if I want to buy it at a sale price. By then we'll know for sure just how much 'mod steam workshop support' the game really has. I'm betting that even if you could mod as much as steam workshop allows that pgi will still put in the most minimal effort on the game and expect the community to fix and make it better.

#16 Prototelis

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 10:21 PM

View PostNightbird, on 01 December 2018 - 10:14 PM, said:


They have AI in MW5. If they had AI in MWO it would be golden, people can PvE all they want.


Not only that, balance would be better in FP. The harder you're winning the more AI you have to deal with. I think the primary complaint I hear is drop zone rushing, and that would be almost impossible with enough competent AI on the field.

#17 Matt2496

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 10:29 PM

Why MW5 could potentially flop?

PGI

#18 crazytimes

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 10:54 PM

Having played a few mech games over the years, namely:
Cresents Hawks Revenge, MW2, MW2:Merc, MW3, MW4:Mercs, MW4, MechCommander, MechCommander 2, MWO, plus a couple of hundred games in the BattleTech pods... and having recently reviewed video of what they actually look like versus my rose coloured memories, I am pretty happy with how MW5 looks.

I tried to replay MW4:Mercs earlier this year and realised just how 2002 it looks and feels.

MW5 is a huge leap forward from any of the above. Yeah, it isn't FarCry 5 visuals. It looked damned good for a MW game though and I am happy with that aspect. I assume the gameplay will have strong similarities to MWO, just with less nascar.

I have a HOTAS ready and waiting. I don't care that mouse and keyboard are 'better', I play with them for MWO where my team cares how I perform, but for MW5 it will be HOTAS all the way. I am super excited to get MW5.

#19 Jackal Noble

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 10:56 PM

View PostNightbird, on 01 December 2018 - 10:13 PM, said:


You're saying with a mechlab right?

Yes with a mechlab absolutely, albeit with a time aspect. IE you cant just flop a 300 in your Tbolt. Techs have to install it and it takes time. Also battle salvage, but more complex than "you've found a Large Laser!" maybe a focal lense here, maybe a capacitor there etc. before you can have enough parts to build a weapon.

#20 Armored Yokai

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 11:02 PM

If Mechwarrior 5 doesn't have at least a couple of these features by release then it's best if PGI cancels it.

Legged mechs stay legged.
Knockdown.
Critical Hits.
Deep water and Heat Reduces mobility.
High heat, head damage or PPC fire scrambles the hud.
Visible damage from inside the cockpit (Cables broken, sparks flying, broken windshield, bloody screen, leaking gases)
DFA.
Ramming damage.
Self Destruct.
Manual Ejection.
AOE ammo explosion damage and cascading engine failures within 90m


*edit*
Highlighted is a must.

Edited by Armored Yokai, 01 December 2018 - 11:04 PM.






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