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Assaults And Tactics


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#21 Alvar Von Kenesthor

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 09:37 AM

> PGI doesn't know how to balance the game because they do it through spreadsheets instead of playing.
> Measures players skills throught spreadsheets

Forum elitists never cease to amaze me...

#22 Astrocanis

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 10:03 AM

View PostInatu Elimor, on 13 December 2018 - 12:23 PM, said:

Dear Noobs,

The assaults as you may know are your very best friends. They will move to get a center position in the main group and operate somewhat like a turret. You know they have heavy firepower but are not so very mobile like you in your lesser tonnage mech. Now the nice thing about this is that they can "facetrade" . You know: you shoot me, I shoot you. Also very nice for your team: the enemy will focus fire on your assaults. They see them as a big threat and beefy too. So you can easily use flanking tactics or use them as a shield ! They are okay with that !
But my dear noobs, what do you do in battle ? You see the enemy coming and immediately sh$%^ starts running down your pants ! You flee. You leave your dear friends behind and let the enemy have a nice meal. NOT OKAY !!!

Now all this is just not necessary. Stay calmly in place, be brave, assist your assaults and you will be fine.
You might even win the game despite a lousy matchmaker. It' s all so simple !

Thanks for listening, take care,

Inatu out.


Funny. At least in QP at T1/2 I have noticed a trend among assaults. They carry big damage scores, do most kills and yet seem to be the last ones to be killed. Positioning is nice. Armor is nice. Huge damage is nice. Don't ask me to protect your butts if you want to hide and potshot the whole game.

Way to share that armor, guys!

#23 Grus

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 11:27 AM

View PostJediPanther, on 13 December 2018 - 06:09 PM, said:

*old man Jedi Voice* Back in my day sonny you sheet yourself when you saw one atlas. Daggumit! Them there Atlas had torso twist speed! Dem blasted ol' 84 armor arms took minutes to shoot off. An dose ani whatsists! dud hevy goose woofles dam done ct you in one hit! oie! Or that thar Ka Cat K2 1/2 thingy! TWO ac 20 AT ONCE! Greee horny toads!

An leme tell yer bout dem LUMS! All de time with the flashy thing and that bitchy thing ain't never done shut up I tell yas! You get de Incomin wopping an a holarin and WHAMY all de armur is gone! Poofy!

Ya know poe? He dun wanrnin yas bout dem der Ravuins? with de EKM! Dat damin ECM! 190m and ain't no missile go woosh! And Jenners! oie! Many a man dun wet himself when three or four or seven of those jenny things gone wolf packing! So many round an circile and round you'd barf as you die trying lasur all tha jenny but it move too dan fast!

*spitooieee!* Yep. back when de *** mechs be torso turnin you wana go hidin but now all the flashy raindow colors and blue sticks and rac rac rac arrgh!

All youse know bout now is hid n pokey and nes kar. Ain't no one know how de tack tic toes no more! no one be un askin us old n smarty smarts how ur done do dis no more. dey say we un better an yu old man! din thde all die when de old uns done show em un how ta fight for real. Bahh! *spitooiee*

i'mha git mah mech an go shoot un shoot sum more den get mah jenny an scareum de noos with what a coircle o death tack tic toe!


Shameless plug** https://youtu.be/OlhmE9ELc_8

And you also could get games like the above...

Atlas.. we miss you.

#24 Phoenix 72

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 01:07 PM

I am confused... There are Assaults playing as tank for the team? You sure?

I see more lurm Assaults than brawl Assaults. In fact, I currently get a lot of capping Assaults. Usually on Polar Highlands, funnily enough... They race over the snow drifts and do their best to finish off that pesky Light Mech from the enemy team that was capping...

#25 Moldur

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 01:12 PM

Assaults work really well as mid/late game tanks. They absorb a lot of damage then instead of teammates who are at 60% armor getting their mechs killed. People tend to focus assaults, so lets say an assault at 90% with 2 or 3 mechs that are half broken shows up mid-game. The enemy focuses the assault and gets 0 kills instead of methodically taking out your other mechs and reducing your team's firepower.

The caveat is, you are relying on your team to get you to that point, and if that doesn't happen, then you will be deemed a useless loser for wasting an assault mech.

#26 El Bandito

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 03:19 PM

View Postkapusta11, on 16 December 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

Huh? The team with "better" players (higher average percentile rank) got their a***es handed to them.


That's the snowbally nature of the game, especially on maps such as HPG. Individually, higher ranked players generally performed better than lower ranked players, which means Jarl's can be used as a measuring tool.

View PostKroete, on 16 December 2018 - 09:31 AM, said:

Mixing group and qp stats make them useless.

You should know that you can inflate your stats with a decent group in gp,
just read in this forum about players claiming 2-4 times more wl/kd if they play gp with their group.


It does skew the stats, but it doesn't make the stats useless cause the majority of QP players play SQ. Sure, dedicated GQ players playing with their units can have much higher stats, but those are the exceptions, rather than the rule.

#27 Leone

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 04:08 PM

View PostDarakor Stormwind, on 16 December 2018 - 01:07 PM, said:

I am confused... There are Assaults playing as tank for the team? You sure?


Actually Heavies usually make better tanks. They can still get decent amounts of armour, but'll oft have enough speed to keep from getting focused down too soon. Anyways, @OP, if you want some more assualt piloting suggestions, mosey on over this-a-way where I've some advice that may help.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 16 December 2018 - 04:08 PM.


#28 Lykaon

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 06:35 PM

View PostWil McCullough, on 13 December 2018 - 11:18 PM, said:

Mistake #1 -
No assault pilot worth their salt (hur hur) acts remotely close to a turret.

Mistake #2 -
If a good assailt pilot decides to be a turret, it's because the team has fought over and won control of the strong point (e.g. fortress on tourmaline or high ground on mining). In those cases, it's more advisable for the lighter mechs to move around and establish multiple firing angles on the enemy team. It's harder for the enemy team to coordinate when they are exposed to multiple firing lanes.

Mistake #3 -
The team that manages to reach a strong point and park its assaults there is normally the team that wins. If you're in an assault and dilly dally instead of leading that push, you're gonna lose. If you dilly dally, your lighter mechs shoulder the burden of having to win the fight for position without your armor leading the way. In that scenario, spreading out to create multiple firing lanes is better than balling up around a stationary assault in a sub-par firing position.



Ah see there we have someone who actually gets it.


Here is a slight variation on the themes in subsection "mistake#3" ...

I was playing a skirmish match on Caustic,where most solo queue matches end up being a NASCAR race. One of my team's Annihilator pilots (we had 2) speaks up and asks the team to not NASCAR and leave the assaults behind.

So here is the plan for Caustic valley skirmish (and let's be honest here Domination,Assault and Conquest as well)

Take your team and align them by speed and elevation. Your slowest mechs take the highest ground. This puts your assault mechs close to the rim of the cauldera on caustic and with close access to ample cover. the rest of your mechs then take up possitions in a line (basicly) desending in elevation from the assault lance's possition with the fastest mech on the lowest elevation (this places the fastest mech the furthest from easy cover but they do possess the speed to get to it if everything goes horribly wrong)

The manuvering is real simple. Imagine the assault lance is the hub of a wheel that the rest of the mechs in the team rotate around. By and large the assault lance only needs to execute a short advance or 90 degree rotations from the "wheel hub" possition while the rest of the mechs advance towards the enemy NASCAR manuver.

This is essentially an ancient military strategy that was utilized when phalanx and light horse or chariots were employed together. The phalanx (assault lance) would blunt the enemy advance while the chariots wheeled into the flank pressing the enemy formation on two sides (phalanx up front and chariot charge in the side). On caustic valley you utilize the terrain with the best fire lanes and access to cover for the "phalanx" that being the high ground in the map's center.

#29 juxstapo

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 07:07 PM

View PostJediPanther, on 13 December 2018 - 06:09 PM, said:

snip


Posted Image seven jennys... I remember seven (other) jennys, lol.

#30 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 07:53 PM

I think the way to get your team to be cohesive is to first tell them not to attack alone but instead to stay in cover and be patient. I've noticed that, ever since I've started piloting the Kraken, the team tends to stay together and not throw their mechs away until I ask for a big push during the mid-game. Until then, I keep telling them to stay in cover and swing to one side while calling out targets. Even the LRM assaults work well in this situation.

#31 justcallme A S H

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 08:06 PM

View PostEl Bandito, on 16 December 2018 - 09:10 AM, said:


Most of those in the bottom of their lances are lower in their Jarl's rank compared to those that are top in their lances, so if anything you just validated Jarl's as an effective tool for measuring skill.


That is exactly how I read it as well.

View Postkapusta11, on 16 December 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:


Huh? The team with "better" players (higher average percentile rank) got their a***es handed to them.



You're splitting hairs over 3-4% @ a 75% average level on the playerbase?

The screenshot reads easily. The lower skilled players died REALLY early (just look at their damage) and thus the steamroll just rolled on down the street. No amount of skill was ever going to stop it.

That screenshot honestly mate, didn't really back up your argument :)

#32 Astrocanis

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 08:06 PM

View PostLykaon, on 16 December 2018 - 06:35 PM, said:



Ah see there we have someone who actually gets it.


Here is a slight variation on the themes in subsection "mistake#3" ...

I was playing a skirmish match on Caustic,where most solo queue matches end up being a NASCAR race. One of my team's Annihilator pilots (we had 2) speaks up and asks the team to not NASCAR and leave the assaults behind.

So here is the plan for Caustic valley skirmish (and let's be honest here Domination,Assault and Conquest as well)

Take your team and align them by speed and elevation. Your slowest mechs take the highest ground. This puts your assault mechs close to the rim of the cauldera on caustic and with close access to ample cover. the rest of your mechs then take up possitions in a line (basicly) desending in elevation from the assault lance's possition with the fastest mech on the lowest elevation (this places the fastest mech the furthest from easy cover but they do possess the speed to get to it if everything goes horribly wrong)

The manuvering is real simple. Imagine the assault lance is the hub of a wheel that the rest of the mechs in the team rotate around. By and large the assault lance only needs to execute a short advance or 90 degree rotations from the "wheel hub" possition while the rest of the mechs advance towards the enemy NASCAR manuver.

This is essentially an ancient military strategy that was utilized when phalanx and light horse or chariots were employed together. The phalanx (assault lance) would blunt the enemy advance while the chariots wheeled into the flank pressing the enemy formation on two sides (phalanx up front and chariot charge in the side). On caustic valley you utilize the terrain with the best fire lanes and access to cover for the "phalanx" that being the high ground in the map's center.


You're right. And those Romans who used those tactics were disciplined. PUGs are the anti-discipline. If you can get 12 goldfish to do the same thing (without feeding them), I congratulate you.

[edit] What you describe is less of a Phalanx and more Echelon Left with skirmishers attempting to set up an enfilade defense.

Edited by Astrocanis, 16 December 2018 - 08:08 PM.


#33 LordNothing

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 11:25 PM

View PostAstrocanis, on 16 December 2018 - 10:03 AM, said:


Funny. At least in QP at T1/2 I have noticed a trend among assaults. They carry big damage scores, do most kills and yet seem to be the last ones to be killed. Positioning is nice. Armor is nice. Huge damage is nice. Don't ask me to protect your butts if you want to hide and potshot the whole game.

Way to share that armor, guys!


i tell you what you get up on the front line with me and share your guns and i will share armor. nothing kills more assaults than getting to the front line just to have the team throw them under the bus to save their sorry *** for a couple more minutes. i guess there are fish i suppose but assaults that frequently die to those to the point where they have to complain about it probably fail my iq test.

Edited by LordNothing, 16 December 2018 - 11:41 PM.


#34 Kubernetes

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Posted 17 December 2018 - 01:30 PM

View Postkapusta11, on 16 December 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:


Huh? The team with "better" players (higher average percentile rank) got their a***es handed to them.


It's one freakin game. Anything can happen in that kind of sample size. I had a game last week with 0 damage (got headshot in the first minute) - - that doesn't invalidate my other 20,000.

#35 Vellron2005

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Posted 18 December 2018 - 04:18 AM

View PostInatu Elimor, on 13 December 2018 - 12:23 PM, said:

Now the nice thing about this is that they can "facetrade" . You know: you shoot me, I shoot you.


Sadly, this is simply NOT TRUE.

It used to be true in previous MW games, but in MWO, if you're in saaay, an Atlas, and you walk out of cover to push, facetank, or "facetrade" as you call it.. chances are, you will die in seconds, either to LRMs, laservomit, or an enemy firing line. Yes, an assault can 1 vs 1 with other assaults or heavies, but even then, it will not last long. And it is rare in this game that you will ever 1 vs 1 in an assault. You are much more likely to get picked off by sniper fire, or a rushing light than to 1 vs 1..

And if it faces a light with a capable pilot, it will die without so much as scratching the light in any significant manner.

People need to realize that in this game, size means nothing, weight means nothing, and armor is only mildly useful if you get caught out of cover.

#36 Phoenix 72

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Posted 18 December 2018 - 05:30 AM

Well, the first thing I do in every single match is to move to where the Assaults spawn and then escort them to where the fight is taking place. I often lose half of them on the way, because their "W" key seems to stop working. The only thing that comforts me is that these guys end up on the enemy side as often as on mine.

Played Mining Collective earlier today. Enemy Fafnir stayed close to their spawn point, sniping with double heavy gauss, never moving. I traded a little with him (in my Bushwacker X1), then 2 Artillery Strikes of mine took care of him. He did 89 damage.

Having said that, I stopped playing Assaults 3 months ago, myself. Because I played Assaults the way I would want the Assaults on my team to be played. And died heroicly under withering fire, very quickly. ;) Because nobody followed up pushes. Even when I called for them and said that I was going in, please follow me. Nothing. Nada. Niente.

That's when I learned: People play the same style, no matter whether they are in Assaults or Mediums. It's like most people can only do one thing, no matter which Mech they play. I have much more success playing Medium and Heavy Mechs, myself. In fact, I have led more successful pushes in my Crab than in my Nightstar. It also feels like the Crab lasts longer under fire, for some reason. Either way, it is not the weight class that is the problem, but individual players.

#37 Wil McCullough

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Posted 18 December 2018 - 05:48 AM

View PostDarakor Stormwind, on 18 December 2018 - 05:30 AM, said:

Well, the first thing I do in every single match is to move to where the Assaults spawn and then escort them to where the fight is taking place. I often lose half of them on the way, because their "W" key seems to stop working. The only thing that comforts me is that these guys end up on the enemy side as often as on mine.

Played Mining Collective earlier today. Enemy Fafnir stayed close to their spawn point, sniping with double heavy gauss, never moving. I traded a little with him (in my Bushwacker X1), then 2 Artillery Strikes of mine took care of him. He did 89 damage.

Having said that, I stopped playing Assaults 3 months ago, myself. Because I played Assaults the way I would want the Assaults on my team to be played. And died heroicly under withering fire, very quickly. ;) Because nobody followed up pushes. Even when I called for them and said that I was going in, please follow me. Nothing. Nada. Niente.

That's when I learned: People play the same style, no matter whether they are in Assaults or Mediums. It's like most people can only do one thing, no matter which Mech they play. I have much more success playing Medium and Heavy Mechs, myself. In fact, I have led more successful pushes in my Crab than in my Nightstar. It also feels like the Crab lasts longer under fire, for some reason. Either way, it is not the weight class that is the problem, but individual players.


You have to trade smart even if you're in an assault. Striding into the open like william wallace shouting "freedommmmmmm" gets you killed quickly whether on table-top, hbs bt or mw. You get focus fired on and get taken down in a single turn (~10 sec).

Knowing when and where to push is the most difficult part of assault piloting and a lot of newer pilots (or more experienced potato pilots) haven't learned that "skill".

#38 Phoenix 72

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Posted 18 December 2018 - 06:24 AM

View PostWil McCullough, on 18 December 2018 - 05:48 AM, said:

You have to trade smart even if you're in an assault. Striding into the open like william wallace shouting "freedommmmmmm" gets you killed quickly whether on table-top, hbs bt or mw. You get focus fired on and get taken down in a single turn (~10 sec).

Knowing when and where to push is the most difficult part of assault piloting and a lot of newer pilots (or more experienced potato pilots) haven't learned that "skill".


I am aware. I have been in matches where it was 4:0 for us and I could not convince people to support a push. "Best" I have managed is 6:0 and the team did not stop sniping. After the first two matches, I stopped doing YOLO pushes. Still, no support, 90% of the time.

Biggest laugh I had that months when I did a tunnel push in my Kitfox, announced it, and half the team followed me in. Was only 2 guys in the tunnel... I had a bit of a WTF moment then, when they would not support me in an Assault, but followed my Light Mech in.

#39 Jman5

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Posted 18 December 2018 - 06:31 AM

View Postkapusta11, on 16 December 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

Huh? The team with "better" players (higher average percentile rank) got their a***es handed to them.


Steamrolls happen for any number of reasons and the size of the win isn't really indicative of much. Losing a few people early because of who just happened to have spawned where can take a potentially competitive match and turn it into a 1-sided slaughter.

Anyway, you can't use a single game as proof that jarl's list is meaningful or not meaningful because it's probabilistic. The higher rank team is more likely to win, but that also means that the higher ranked team sometimes loses (just less frequently).

I have seen at least a couple people go through a large batch of games comparing stats which showed a relationship between better jarl stats and higher winrate.

Edited by Jman5, 18 December 2018 - 12:09 PM.


#40 Mister Glitchdragon

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Posted 18 December 2018 - 09:03 AM

View PostWil McCullough, on 13 December 2018 - 11:18 PM, said:


Mistake #3 -
If you dilly dally, your lighter mechs shoulder the burden of having to win the fight for position without your armor leading the way.

LOL this. The other night in a solo qp match, Solaris City. After the enemy deathball focused the rest of us down, one of the assaults who had mucked around "positioning" in the backfield finally got to the fight and said, "The assaults are flanking! There's something you never see!"

It was very hard not to add, "not on winning teams, anyway." No need to tell anyone how it went.





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