45 replies to this topic

[GoatHILL]

Just I thought here but shouldn't the heat contained in the heat sinks destoried be removed when the heat sink is removed?

[Xeno Phalcon]

see the december 11th patch

https://mwomercs.com...00-11-dec-2018/

[FupDup]

Xeno Phalcon, on 08 December 2018 - 08:24 PM, said:

see the december 11th patch

https://mwomercs.com...00-11-dec-2018/

The new patch isn't getting rid of the heat stored inside the heatsinks, it just reduces your max threshold. The heat you had before heatsink destruction will still remain.

[TheCaptainJZ]

I think he thinks the heat in those sinks should go away as well so you don't overheat immediately.
I'm fine with the change as described in the patch notes. People have been asking for more penalties for redlining for years. Here's one that makes sense, and also includes another con to using LFE or clan XL engine since they are overwhelmingly better for most builds.

[Khobai]

if youre asking for heat to make sense in MWO it never will.

[UnofficialOperator]

Perm account death would solve redlining for sure.

[cyclist1994]

Let's say your heat at the scale is at 80%.
Each of your 10 heatsinks is at 80% of it's capacity each.

Then you get shot and lose 3 heatsinks.

The remaining 7 heatsinks will still be at 80% of their capacity.
The scale will still show 80% heat, but the capacity is reduced to 7/10.
Which means you will heat up more quick.

[MechaBattler]

A tad off topic. Been playing since beta. But I can't remember, does mech size effect heat? You would think with a larger surface area and overall mass it would have some effect between classes. But that could be one of those details sacrificed at alter of simplicity .

[GoatHILL]

cyclist1994, on 08 December 2018 - 11:57 PM, said:

Let's say your heat at the scale is at 80%.
Each of your 10 heatsinks is at 80% of it's capacity each.

Then you get shot and lose 3 heatsinks.

The remaining 7 heatsinks will still be at 80% of their capacity.
The scale will still show 80% heat, but the capacity is reduced to 7/10.
Which means you will heat up more quick.

Right that's the way it should be but under the current system you lose those 3 heat sinks and the heat gets pushed into the remaining 7.

[cyclist1994]

I would not say the heat is "pushed into the remaining" heatsinks.
The heat is not transported from one heatsink into another, but the lost heatsinks will not contribute to your heat capacity anymore.

--------
If you introduce the term "absolute heat" and "relative heat":
The relative heat, which is shown as percentage on the scale, will not change.
But the absolute heat is reduced, because heatsinks are lost.

E.g. the absolute heat would be proportional to the heat energy, and the relative heat proportional to the temperature.
(The later is shown on the scale, makes sense!?)

[GoatHILL]

No when you lose heatsinks the heat remains but now you have fewer heatsinks to carry that load so your heat spikes even if you are not firing.

[Khobai]

Heatsinks dont actually store heat they just draw heat away from the mech and vent it into the air using a liquid coolant because liquids can hold more heat than air. Theyre basically high-tech radiators. Its realistic that the heat wouldnt just disappear when the heatsinsk are destroyed.

But will it be a fun game mechanic? Im skeptical.

Ive never been a big fan of PGI constantly nerfing CXL instead of buffing ISXL to survive side torso blowout.

[Vyx]

Khobai, on 09 December 2018 - 08:32 PM, said:

Heatsinks dont actually store heat they just draw heat away from the mech and vent it into the air using a liquid coolant because liquids can hold more heat than air. Theyre basically high-tech radiators. Its realistic that the heat wouldnt just disappear when the heatsinsk are destroyed.

This is false. Heat sinks have "heat dissipation" and "heat capacity" a.k.a "heat threshold" ( https://mwo.smurfy-n...uipment#modules ). They -do- store heat. When they are destroyed, the heat they contained -should- be destroyed as well -- blown off into the atmosphere. But with the new change, the magic heat smoke will re-infest your mech, forcing your (current heat)/(heat capacity) to spike. Not only is this against the laws of thermodynamics (just like "ghost heat"), it's not going to be fun to play at all.

PGI and math. Always a struggle.

Edited by Vyx, 09 December 2018 - 10:13 PM.

[evilauthor]

Vyx, on 09 December 2018 - 10:02 PM, said:

This is false. Heat sinks have "heat dissipation" and "heat capacity" a.k.a "heat threshold" ( https://mwo.smurfy-n...uipment#modules ). They -do- store heat. When they are destroyed, the heat they contained -should- be destroyed as well -- blown off into the atmosphere.

Not necessarily. If the coolant liquid holding the heat splashes mostly on the mech's innards instead of spilling outside the mech, then the heat has gone nowhere. But really, that just means the remaining heat sinks have to pick up the slack for disposing of that heat, not create even more heat.

Of course, crits in MWO only happen AFTER all the armor is gone so through-armor crits aren't a thing...

[SFC174]

Khobai, on 09 December 2018 - 08:32 PM, said:

Heatsinks dont actually store heat they just draw heat away from the mech and vent it into the air using a liquid coolant because liquids can hold more heat than air. Theyre basically high-tech radiators. Its realistic that the heat wouldnt just disappear when the heatsinsk are destroyed.

But will it be a fun game mechanic? Im skeptical.

Ive never been a big fan of PGI constantly nerfing CXL instead of buffing ISXL to survive side torso blowout.

We can agree that this probably won't be fun to play.

That said, the majority of heat in a heat sink/heat exchanger is in the circulating fluid (you typically want heat exchangers to be as light as possible to reduce the time constant of the heat system). And if a heat exchanger is destroyed, you lose all the hot fluid at the same time. Your heat level (temperature) wouldn't necessarily go down, but it shouldn't suddenly go up unless you fire your weapons or jumpjets.

This is a bogus mechanic from a physics standpoint, but hey, MWO and physics have never really been friends anyways.

Again though, this doesn't sound like a good playability change. I don't know who thought this was necessary or good for the game, especially given all the other crap that PGI needs to fix.

[arcana75]

GoatHILL, on 08 December 2018 - 06:56 PM, said:

Just I thought here but shouldn't the heat contained in the heat sinks destoried be removed when the heat sink is removed?

Regardless of how and why, think of it like this, imagine a rubber tube with both ends open. You tie the bottom end giving it space for 100ml of water (theoretical 100% heat) and start filling it and stop at the 80ml mark (80% heat). There's also 20ml of space from the top.

In the current engine loss heat system, if a torso is lost, you re-tie the bottom end of the hose and let some water out from the bottom say 20ml. The hose now has 60ml of water, but still 20ml of space from the top. It's not 100% full but now there's less space to work with (new 80ml vs old 100ml).

In the new engine loss heat system, if a torso is lost, you cut the top end of the hose, say 20ml, which is the 20ml space at the top of the hose. There is still 80ml in the hose and now the hose is full, aka 100% heat causing a shutdown or meltdown if overridden.

This is what PGI is trying to achieve. We should not bother with whether it's logical or fits with lore, it is what it is, and I think it'll make for an interesting new battlefield dynamic, with bigger implications for override turned on and riding the heatline, risk vs reward.

Edited by arcana75, 09 December 2018 - 11:18 PM.

[Vyx]

arcana75, on 09 December 2018 - 11:17 PM, said:

... We should not bother with whether it's logical or fits with lore, it is what it is ...

Pretty much this. Why should we expect logic or lore?


As an added point, can anyone explain to me how allowing Stealth Armored mechs to dissipate heat still permits them to remain invisible to heat vision?

Classic nonsensical PGI.

Edited by Vyx, 10 December 2018 - 12:16 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

arcana75, on 09 December 2018 - 11:17 PM, said:

This is what PGI is trying to achieve. We should not bother with whether it's logical or fits with lore,

Remove logic and lore what does this game even have?

Edited by Monkey Lover, 10 December 2018 - 04:06 AM.

[eminus]

new heat mechanic?

the 12xLMG Piranha is laughing

but its cousin the 12xlazor Piranha is very very skeptical

Edited by eminus, 10 December 2018 - 05:50 AM.

[Remover of Obstacles]

Vyx, on 09 December 2018 - 10:02 PM, said:

Not only is this against the laws of thermodynamics (just like "ghost heat"), it's not going to be fun to play at all.

PGI and math. Always a struggle.

PGI and fun. Always a struggle.