23 replies to this topic

[Reposter]

Hi guys, just wondering how to use jump jet mechs effectively with Jump Jet Skill nodes?

I rarely buy alot of jump jets for my mechs, so what are popular and solid builds around Jump Jets usage?

[DodgerH2O]

I suspect that "popular" builds around JJ usage and the nodes are unlikely but I hope to be surprised.

I tend to go down the left side of the tree when not going all-out (SDR-5V requires max JJ tree). Vectoring (the right side) can actually be counterproductive for me a lot of the time, as in poptart mechs it can put you closer to danger to have too much forward thrust and in my slower mechs I usually use JJs to bypass a ramp so the burn time (effectively additional height) is more useful than forward thrust. I take any adjacent Lift Speed nodes because it's there and it will help a lot especially with heavier mechs.

If you're a heavy energy poptart build the heat shielding can be very useful, but I haven't crunched the numbers to know if it's more useful than weapon heat skill nodes, so I mostly skip the center of the tree unless I'm looking for additional cooling on top of the weapons and operations trees.

Hope this helps.

Edited by DodgerH2O, 20 December 2018 - 06:45 PM.

[Tesunie]

Reposter, on 20 December 2018 - 02:21 PM, said:

Hi guys, just wondering how to use jump jet mechs effectively with Jump Jet Skill nodes?

I rarely buy alot of jump jets for my mechs, so what are popular and solid builds around Jump Jets usage?

What skills are useful to what people tend to rely on what those individual players value most. Of course, there are also some mechs that need some skills more than others too, so there rarely is a "cookie cutter" skill build.

I personally love to jump, so I love also utilizing those JJ skills on what mechs need to get every ounce out of their JJs. I like my, for example, my Huntsmen with near maxed JJs, avoiding what vectoring skills I can to get max thrust. This lets my Huntsmen really take to the sky when needed, typically for some jump shooting.

I have several Huntsmen that do this trick, as they all come with JJs built hard locked in. I find, if you don't use your JJs in a Huntsmen, you are just wasting the tonnage and the potential. Some specific builds I use:
LRM Huntsmen: 4 ERMLs for direct fire engagements, with an LRM10 and LRM15 for everything else. Jump up, shoot with your lasers, and on your way down get a missile lock and let loose a farewell they hopefully won't forget.
ERPPC: A typical dual PPC build. Not much to talk about, but once again faster up and down with more height to your jumps is helpful for the build.
Pulse Huntsmen: A LPL and quad MPL build. Once again, JJ skills can be useful, seen as pulse weapons have shorter burn times. Then again, this specific build may benefit from other skills. Up to how you value those skills.
ATM Huntsmen: I've only toyed with ATMs so far, but from what I've seen, jumping with them is VERY helpful. They have such low flight paths that getting a little height is useful. Rather it's useful enough to warrant additional skills in JJ, not sure.


I have many mechs I use JJ skills on, and I do feel improvement by taking them. However, if you aren't using your JJs much, or you only are taking a couple, then said skills probably won't be overly helpful. (Build specifics can be posted upon request. I'd have to dig around to get them again is all.)

[FatherSarge]

You have lived until you assassinate something with a Viper, full JJ and speed tweak. It's a lot of fun

[Koniving]

FatherSarge, on 20 December 2018 - 07:42 PM, said:

You have lived until you assassinate something with a Viper, full JJ and speed tweak. It's a lot of fun

By that logic, you'd die when you make that attempt, right?
Oh, wait.

"You haven't lived until"
Okay, now it makes sense. By this logic we haven't truly lived or had the thrill of life until we assassinate an enemy mech with a Viper full of jumpjets and speed tweak.

As someone that has done this, that's true; there's a lot of fun to be had with that.

[justcallme A S H]

The JJ tree is largely a waste of nodes. I played around with it early on but it's just not worth it.

EG: Any mech that is a Poptart already has enough JJs (HMN, NTG etc) to clear any terrain/obstacle to shoot. So going any 'higher' with the skills is essentially compensating for your lack of control / timing with JJs. Plus cooldowns on weapons / mech heat etc means you have plenty of time to reset the JJ bar.

[50 50]

Jump jet skill nodes.
For when you want to try and turn a mech into a Land Air Mech.

Generally get better use of the points in other ares, but if you simply want to see how far you can make the mech 'fly' then have a bit of fun with it.
The Vipers thanks to their weight and large number of jump jets, along with one of the Spiders and even one of the Phoenix Hawks can be 'fun' to play around with with the jump jet nodes just to take the natural jump ability that extra bit further.

Edited by 50 50, 20 December 2018 - 09:46 PM.

[Tesunie]

The JJ skills can have their uses, depending upon what you are looking for. I specified height as one such factor, because it's the more noticeable trait people will see. That extra height can also help getting surprise attacks on the upper parts of Bog, where you can go from ground level to just making it to that second shelf. If you are good/lucky, right behind an enemy to gut their back out. If not, they still normally don't expect it and you can get a shot off and drop before much retaliation happens.

The reduced heat from the skills is one part I find useful. I often times will jump when under heavy fire (along with twisting and side shielding when possible). It's shaved off damage, and some times if you are running hot I've managed to shut myself down in mid flight when I didn't have the skills. (I know, override and watching your heat.) Increased initial burst of speed also helps with this, as it can make shots that might have hit drift off and miss or only graze you instead.

Extra fuel can also come in handy for when you've got a series of jumps you need to do to get out of a bad situation, or for above situation where you jump up to surprise someone and now need to drop down and don't want to rip your legs off...

The most useless skill I find in the tree is the vectored thrust. Often, when you are jumping, you don't want to move forwards. It doesn't increase your speed after jumping at a full run, so it's often more of a detriment than I find as a help. So I take just the minimum of these to get the other skills I want, because I have to.


As I mentioned in my first post here; what skill nodes people value tends to vary from person to person and sometimes even mech to mech. I have some mechs where I value Speed Tweak over other skills, but most of my mechs don't seem to need mobility quirks as much. For one example there, my Black Lanner loves the Speed Tweak skills. The Kodiak I feel needs the twist speed skills (and probably accel and deccel skills as well) before it needs survival skills or even weapon skills. My Grasshopper doesn't seem to need the mobility quirks (in my opinion), and desires other skills instead.

Of course, with how malleable the skill tree system is now, I just suggest people take the time to unlock the skills in question and see how they feel it works. You can now change it back without cost, so might as well experiment a little, right?

[FatherSarge]

Koniving, on 20 December 2018 - 08:31 PM, said:

By that logic, you'd die when you make that attempt, right?
Oh, wait.

"You haven't lived until"
Okay, now it makes sense. By this logic we haven't truly lived or had the thrill of life until we assassinate an enemy mech with a Viper full of jumpjets and speed tweak.

As someone that has done this, that's true; there's a lot of fun to be had with that.

That's what I get for typing on my phone and not reading before I post yes, "you haven't lived until" is the correct phrase

[Mechwarrior 37]

I found it interesting that someone talked about Arty and Air strikes and he said that you can JUMP ABOVE the strikes.

I put some nodes into JJ's a few times but only for special made Faction Mechs. In other words, on this map and this game, I needed a mech that could get up somewhere his normal JJs would not.

If not, they are a semi waste unless you simply have extra ones....(extra ones, lol)

[Tesunie]

Mechwarrior 37, on 22 December 2018 - 07:10 AM, said:

I found it interesting that someone talked about Arty and Air strikes and he said that you can JUMP ABOVE the strikes.

I put some nodes into JJ's a few times but only for special made Faction Mechs. In other words, on this map and this game, I needed a mech that could get up somewhere his normal JJs would not.

If not, they are a semi waste unless you simply have extra ones....(extra ones, lol)

I use JJs to try and avoid strikes when I don't have the ability to get out of the area. Depending upon how high I am at the time and where the strikes land, it can avoid damage from the strike. If, however, a strike lands right on you, it wont matter that you are jumping, you are still taking some good damage.

I've had some mechs where I had a few extra skill nodes left over. That's when I decide if it could benefit from mobility (unless already needed such as the case of the Kodiak), JJ skills, etc. There are some skills that are almost always a given though; Operations for cool run (if the mech runs hot, which most do), Durability (normally useful on every mech), Extra consumable slot (typically with UAV and Cool Shots for myself, though good for strikes as well), of course myriad weapon skills...

I like the skill tree's give and take selection. If you want this, you may not be able to take that. Hence I've stated that everyone tends to value different skill nodes differently. I mean, I like taking JJ skills most times, where as Ash denounces them as a waste of time. We already value those nodes differently...

[justcallme A S H]

Mechwarrior 37, on 22 December 2018 - 07:10 AM, said:

I found it interesting that someone talked about Arty and Air strikes and he said that you can JUMP ABOVE the strikes.

You cannot do this.

[Mechwarrior 37]

Possible, I learned it here.

[Tesunie]

justcallme A S H, on 22 December 2018 - 09:34 AM, said:

You cannot do this.

You CAN do this. I've done it. Provided, of course, a shell does not land directly onto you.

Due to their splash damage when they hit the ground, they produce damage in an area around the impact. If you jump high enough, you can avoid the heaviest portions of the damage from a nearby blast if not avoid it completely. You really need height if you wish to avoid it completely along with really good timing. Most times, it just reduces the amount of damage (because of distance) and makes it hit the legs rather than the torsos.

Of course, I'll stress again that if a shell lands directly on you (hit you, not the ground), it doesn't matter if you are jumping or not. When that happens, it really hurts.

The shells should be doing damage in a dome, rather than a pillar of damage "to the heavens". So, there is no reason why you can't jump above the strike explosions with enough height and good timing.

[Mechwarrior 37]

Well, I tested it and you can jump above strikes.

One reason this is cool for me is one of the stupid tactics I use. This fact just made it work better with a jump mech.

If for whatever reason I find myself in a light suddenly facing let's say their assault lance. I will throw a strike at them (I just changed back to Airstrikes) and then run through them.

But now I know I can ....uh, well, you can guess, lol.

[justcallme A S H]

Tesunie, on 22 December 2018 - 03:30 PM, said:

You CAN do this. I've done it. Provided, of course, a shell does not land directly onto you.

And thus, you cannot.

It still has the RNG to hit you.

Same as it does to miss entirely. So, no, you cannot.

[Mechwarrior 37]

Pffttttt......

I'll make a video on a testing map. I put a strike in front or at my feet and then try to time the jump just before the blasts hit.

You have to time it right with a lot depending on the jump ability of your mech.

[Tesunie]

justcallme A S H, on 26 December 2018 - 05:31 AM, said:

And thus, you cannot.

It still has the RNG to hit you.

Same as it does to miss entirely. So, no, you cannot.

Wait... wait...

Because you have a small chance the shell may land directly on you, a very small chance... that means you can never ever ever jump over a strike's smoke to try and avoid (and have the good potential to do so) the damage from the incoming strike? You can avoid the splash damage from a nearby strike, which is where a lot of a strikes damage comes from.

This is like saying a strike will shoot your head component out. It (at one point) had the capability to do so, but it was very rare to happen. Just because it CAN doesn't mean it WILL.

As mentioned above, if you time your jump well, you CAN avoid the splash damage from the shells or at least mitigate the damage (because you are farther from it), so thus you CAN jump to avoid strikes. You can't say you can't just because there is a chance the shell may still land directly on top of you.

What you are saying is that jump sniping is completely ineffective because your opponent CAN still hit you with their entire alpha... even though it is likely that they wont...
Or that twisting to try and spread incoming enemy fire is pointless because they CAN still hit a single hitbox and kill you.
Or that taking ammo is a death trap because it CAN explode when it is critted... and ignore the fact it's only 10% of the time it is critted it will explode.

A chance does not mean it ends up being an absolute. I would rather take the chance at mitigating, reducing or even avoiding damage from a strike, rather than just sit there and let it hit me. Much like if someone is going to shoot me, I'd like to try and not have it hit a damaged component by twisting a fresh side to face them rather than stare them down so they can pick which component to hit.

So, once again, we end up with the fact that you CAN avoid strikes by jumping, but because you CAN doesn't mean it will always work.

[PurplePuke]

justcallme A S H, on 20 December 2018 - 09:00 PM, said:

The JJ tree is largely a waste of nodes. I played around with it early on but it's just not worth it.

EG: Any mech that is a Poptart already has enough JJs (HMN, NTG etc) to clear any terrain/obstacle to shoot. So going any 'higher' with the skills is essentially compensating for your lack of control / timing with JJs. Plus cooldowns on weapons / mech heat etc means you have plenty of time to reset the JJ bar.

Not quite true.

The JJ nodes aren't about more height, they're about more time in the air.

I use them (not the vectoring nodes) on a Huntsman with ATMs, and I can get two volleys of 2xATM12's off in one jump.

Lots of fun.

[Koniving]

You guys are arguing with someone that thinks his stats make him right no matter what the topic, it could be about something like which is the better shoe, left or right (despite both being from the same pair)... and his stats would make him right in whichever one he says, because stats.

(Side note MWO doesn't actually have splash damage for the very same reason missiles don't have splash. Instead, there's a scripted range around each impact for the "splash". If you're standing in it, you get said damage randomly applied. The space that gets damage allocated is 12 or 13 meters tall and 2.5 meters in radius (5 in diameter). If you're outside of the box [regardless of whether by being above, beside, or below], damage cannot be applied to you.)