6 replies to this topic

[Darkhorse045]

I am not normally one to complain on forums, but I see Solaris divisions are still rubbish. Where a mech like the Ice Ferret or Champion can go up against the Banshee and still somehow able to have a chance. I can understand going up against plus or minus certain amounts of tonnage, I am personally fine with that.

But what I cannot stand is this idea that mechs like the Banshee can potentially be facing off against mechs like the Champion where the Banshee's armor probably weighs more than the weapons the Champion carries. Balanced is not the word I would use for this at all. And I pretty much feel the same for the majority of the divisions in Solaris are imbalanced with certain exceptions like Division 1 and Division 7. Even then I could still argue that certain mechs really do not belong in those divisions.

Look, I probably don't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things. I am not the best player by any stretch of the imagination, not even really a good player (even if do like to think so from time to time.) But I am good enough to realize that certain match-ups are unwinnable unless you pick something just as big or pick at a certain weakness. A Champion will not win against a Banshee unless the Banshee pilot is an absolute dunce of a pilot. And oh sure, aim for the head, I am not even sure where the head hit box IS on the Banshee, much less being able to hit it consistently while on the move. I don't have the time to devote to the game like that anymore.

And looking at say the Division 4 leaderboard, its dominated by assault mechs. Zeus, Awesome, the occasional Banshee, with the occasional Rifleman in there as well. But to me, that says that it's go assault or you don't have much of a chance. I wish there was a way to see who has faced who in what mech just as a way of seeing what certain mechs have popped up but that feature doesn't exist. And frankly, I don't really want to go to that amount of effort just to have a bit of fun 1v1. I can face a lot of mechs in sub-optimal mechs, I would feel confident in my Champion vs a lot of the more "meta" mechs out there, even ones like the Ebon Jag, Thanatos, Thunderbolt, or what ever dominates the meta nowadays. There are annoying exceptions that deal an absurd amount of damage for their weight (looking at you Piranha and Black Lanner with MGs galore) or are one trick-ponies (looking at you Archer,) but that confidence goes out the window when it comes to assaults. Especially IS assaults. It's not fear, but the simple knowledge that they have an absurd amount of armor and the Solaris maps are small enough that a competent pilot will be able to get in a position to fight no matter what. Even in the caves, without being a **** and just hiding all match, its hard to try and fight when your opponent can absorb all the incoming damage with little issue and can take risks that I cannot afford.

And again, while I am no where near the best, I am not an absolute trash player. I can pilot a mech fairly well, but not enough to make up for the general absurdity of some match-ups.

This is coming out a bit ranty, but I wanted to give Solaris another chance but it is still as much rubbish as it was when it first came out. Some may disagree, but I will still prefer to have traditional Solaris style divisions; Light, Medium, Heavy, Assault, to what we have now. But if we must stick with the current divisions, I would recommend looking again at how mechs are placed and have competitive players do the testing.

[Alcom Isst]

I'm guessing no one good has a La Malinche. It should be amazing in Div 4. It's got by far the most armor in the division and can run a brawl psuedo-atlas build. I'm surprised I'm not seeing one at the top of the leaderboards, I didn't get the chance to fight one either... which is probably a good thing.

I'm not sure about the Champion. The tonnage and hitboxes are really awkward, you can use the CHP-1NB to do a faux Rifleman but with worse offensive quirks and a vulnerable right torso. I'd be concerned about moving the chassis or most of its variants down to Div 5 though as the mech could possibly break the lower weight division with some ballistic-energy combo.

Light-Medium-Hoovy-Assalt divisions would reduce the number of divisions and I like that, but it would reduce the dominant strategy down to very few variants, less than what Solaris currently has. The variety of matchups would be way less too. I really enjoy Arctic Wolf vs Annihilator, Wolfhound vs Everything, and Assassin vs Everything... then again my heavier opponents probably don't appreciate a smol mech darting around slowly dissecting their legs and/or face.

The divisions are changed every season and will be changed a month from now, some Champion variants may be dropped down to Div 5 depending on how they performed.

Also amongst all the Assaults and Heavies, Assassin is still amazing in Div 4.

Edited by Alcom Isst, 28 December 2018 - 01:54 AM.

[Makenzie71]

The top of the divisions might be dominated but the heavier mechs, but have you looked at the rest of the leaderboard? Because it's dominated by heavier mechs, too. You sound like someone who dropped in a heavy build and got chewed up by a light. Admittedly, I hate seeing a light with a single PPC drop when I'm in my KGC or DWF, but that's how the game is played. I don't think the divisions are suppose to be fair. It's not suppose to be a nice competition.

[Darkhorse045]

Spoiler

Alcom Isst, on 27 December 2018 - 07:50 PM, said:

I'm guessing no one good has a La Malinche. It should be amazing in Div 4. It's got by far the most armor in the division and can run a brawl psuedo-atlas build. I'm surprised I'm not seeing one at the top of the leaderboards, I didn't get the chance to fight one either... which is probably a good thing.

I'm not sure about the Champion. The tonnage and hitboxes are really awkward, you can use the CHP-1NB to do a faux Rifleman but with worse offensive quirks and a vulnerable right torso. I'd be concerned about moving the chassis or most of its variants down to Div 5 though as the mech could possibly break the lower weight division with some ballistic-energy combo.

Light-Medium-Hoovy-Assalt divisions would reduce the number of divisions and I like that, but it would reduce the dominant strategy down to very few variants, less than what Solaris currently has. The variety of matchups would be way less too. I really enjoy Arctic Wolf vs Annihilator, Wolfhound vs Everything, and Assassin vs Everything... then again my heavier opponents probably don't appreciate a smol mech darting around slowly dissecting their legs and/or face.

The divisions are changed every season and will be changed a month from now, some Champion variants may be dropped down to Div 5 depending on how they performed.

Also amongst all the Assaults and Heavies, Assassin is still amazing in Div 4.

I am fairly certain I faced a La Malinche, to my shame I didn't get the variant name before I went down, but I honestly tried everything I could to beat it. Hit and run, poking, he just had far too much armor for my Champion to handle. Perhaps it was a weakness of the build, but it was ridiculously slanted from the start. I do try to learn from where I lose but I cannot think of anything I could have tried that would have given me a chance at victory.

Spoiler

Makenzie71, on 28 December 2018 - 04:54 AM, said:

The top of the divisions might be dominated but the heavier mechs, but have you looked at the rest of the leaderboard? Because it's dominated by heavier mechs, too. You sound like someone who dropped in a heavy build and got chewed up by a light. Admittedly, I hate seeing a light with a single PPC drop when I'm in my KGC or DWF, but that's how the game is played. I don't think the divisions are suppose to be fair. It's not suppose to be a nice competition.

Then what exactly is the point of divisions in the first place? Why not get rid of the pretense and toss all the mechs into one mix? I think we know how that would turn out. I will give praise to PGI for at least attempting to balance, but the execution was flawed and we get ridiculous match ups like I mentioned before. And, as I stated before, I do try to learn from my defeats to see what I could do better. I don't even mind going up against mechs far greater than my own tonnage, I killed a Highlander IIC with a ASN-21 in Solaris twice! Doesn't mean I cannot point out the idiocy of that sort of match up from the start and why its honestly a terrible idea. I really like the idea, just its painful to fight such slanted matches when there is little reason for them to be happening outside of some arbitrary data point which likely has little to do with actual testing of systems before they are released.

Again, I don't mind fighting match-ups that are a bit slanted one way or another, but not to the point where opposing mechs can have armor than the weapons I mount or possibly even my mechs total tonnage.

Edit: Formatting

Edited by Darkhorse045, 28 December 2018 - 05:30 PM.

[Makenzie71]

Darkhorse045, on 28 December 2018 - 05:30 PM, said:

Then what exactly is the point of divisions in the first place?

To separate models that can't hold up to facetime. A Direwolf and an Annihilator and go toe to toe. A Wolfhound can't go toe to toe with an Annihilator, but it's small and fast enough to be able to move out of the way. An Annihilator and a Zeus, however, isn't a match because the Zeus can neither move out of the way NOR go toe to toe.

[Darkhorse045]

Makenzie71, on 28 December 2018 - 05:39 PM, said:

To separate models that can't hold up to facetime. A Direwolf and an Annihilator and go toe to toe. A Wolfhound can't go toe to toe with an Annihilator, but it's small and fast enough to be able to move out of the way. An Annihilator and a Zeus, however, isn't a match because the Zeus can neither move out of the way NOR go toe to toe.

Which is what I am getting at, the Champion, while it can be fast, isn't fast enough to get away in a relatively small environment from a Banshee or a Zeus. It doesn't have the firepower to take them down, nor the armor to tank them long enough to try. It just loses. Same goes for the Dragon and a fair few other heavies in D4. I can imagine the Rifleman does well due to it's ballistic hard points but I am not very comfortable with the chassis and honestly do not want one.I have tried other heavies, such as the Thunderbolt, Warhammer, Dragon, Black Knight, and they are all outclassed by the assaults in that division. Though admittedly, the Thunderbolt and Black Knight had closer matches than the Dragon and Warhammer did. That could have been pilot error, bad match ups, or terrible maps for the mech. But I tried to get a few matches with each mech to at least give a baseline for their performance compared to others in their division.

[Rick T Dangerous]

Darkhorse045, on 27 December 2018 - 05:45 PM, said:

Balanced is not the word I would use for this at all.

The good folks at PGI have a very unique understanding of the word "balance".

Darkhorse045, on 27 December 2018 - 05:45 PM, said:

And frankly, I don't really want to go to that amount of effort just to have a bit of fun 1v1.

You are not alone with that. Checking the Solaris leaderboard for all divisions, there's not many people left spending (wasting?) time on that mode. I don't recall the number, but it's less than 2000 people in Season 3. Far less. Maybe even less than 1500. Some weeks ago I took the time to click through the leaderboard just to find out how many (?) people played enough to make rank, and it did take surprisingly little time to do the clicking. Guess the upcoming End Of Season will be a very quite thing...

Darkhorse045, on 27 December 2018 - 05:45 PM, said:

This is coming out a bit ranty, but I wanted to give Solaris another chance but it is still as much rubbish as it was when it first came out.

I politely disagree. The first month of Solaris was great fun, it went to prequel-worse from there and now is close to The-Last-Jedi-Milking-Scene-Bad. The whole three months per season shebang was a giveaway that Solaris 7 was intended to fail.

Darkhorse045, on 27 December 2018 - 05:45 PM, said:

Some may disagree, but I will still prefer to have traditional Solaris style divisions; Light, Medium, Heavy, Assault, to what we have now. But if we must stick with the current divisions, I would recommend looking again at how mechs are placed and have competitive players do the testing.

For a long time I disagreed to the idea of having the weight classes for divisions with a fifth as free for all. But now I agree: it would give PGI less chance to sabotage their product. Some of the maps would need a little more cover for the brawlers and sniping spots that are a little harder to get to, then Solaris 7 could be... what's the word... fun.

The way PGI has "developed" the division list since S7 release shows at best one thing: that they really have no clue about what they did to the game. And that they are unable or unwilling to "look at the data" and see what the data shows.