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Is The Stealth Atlas Competely Useless?


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#1 Darakor Stormwind

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 10:59 PM

I am asking because the majority of the time when I see someone pilot a Stealth Atlas in quick play, it becomes a huge liability. I have only very rarely seen one do well. Most of the time they seem to die with sub 100 damage scores.

When I see one on my team, I groan. When I see one on the enemy team, I am happy.

Is this just a bias based on my personal experience? Or is that Atlas really bad?

#2 Void Angel

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 11:16 PM

You mean the D-DC? I've not been playing much recently, so the meta may have changed, but I've always liked my D-DC. If your teammate is dying with sub-100 damage, the most likely a pilot headspace and timing issue; he may be unused to Assaults and not know how to position himself to take advantage of all that tonnage.

#3 AnAnachronismAlive

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 01:58 AM

Would generally assume assaults ain't very viable in terms of using stealth armor due to their silhouette (generally huge chassis - especially the Fatlas), slow speed (hard to get into favourable positions / to reposition), their general battlefield role (frontline) and heat-generation while firing (especially the Fatlass and his hardpoints).

Bet ye can have funny hoax-games in quickplay on stealth-assaults (some double-gauss builds mebbe), but generally I would advice against it - assaults tend to lack slots anyway.

Edited by AnAnachronismAlive, 29 December 2018 - 01:59 AM.


#4 OZHomerOZ

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 03:00 AM

I think you gimp your Atlas with Stealth
Fully Skilled ECM is functionally almost the same without the slot cost and sacrifice cost.
(What you sacrifice to fit stealth - Endo , Large weapons etc.)

At short range where fully skilled ECM can be targeted , the stealth Atlas can not be targeted.
Thou even with stealth the Atlas cannot hide because its a walking mech mountain.
So the benefit of Stealth for an Atlas is marginal since ECM can do practically the same with less negatives.

I run my DDC like this, ECM fully skilled, Triple MRM20 and Dual RAC 5's
Its really hot, best to have a focus fire buddy to shoot as you cool down.
But its a DPS monster, till you overheat anyway
and with structure skills you can overheat long time
Coz an Atlas has lots of structure

Woo Hoo

Edit: DDC come with native structure quirks too. Skill dat. Overheat for dayz.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 30 December 2018 - 12:25 AM.


#5 The Basilisk

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 03:01 AM

Using concepts of stealth and info warfare has been getting more and more difficult to use through the past years of the game due to the inability of most ppl to do something else than just running around and shooting or hiding this fact in concepts like "deathballing", "tactical movement" aka running around faster and shooting more than the enemy.

So in fact in most cases it isn't the stealth using units inability to be usefull but rather the teams inability to use their tech and support units to any effect.

f.e.: Cyclops battlecomputer should be a nice addition ECM spotters to be less endangered from beeing detected (sensor range)
But it isn't realy because the maps are either to smal and flat for tactical movement or too steep for LRM support.

Also the sad fact of the little team sizes are a problem here making any ton spend on something other than heatcapacity and weapons a problem for the team.

So is the stealth Atlas useless ?
No its just missplaced in this game of just running and shooting like a bunch of kids with waterpistols.

#6 OZHomerOZ

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 03:14 AM

Useless is such a strong word.

I would say situational

Pro tip: Situational is bad in Solo Que

Even if your a good pilot, you would do better more often in a less situational mech

And the idea of having perfect cohesion and info warfare with a bunch of randoms, with random builds, random skills and little to no communication viop or no is unrealistic IMO

Thats why you join a group, less random

In solo queue you have to adapt to what drives wins in a random jungle, so you have a bunch of tactics and strats that work reliably aka Nascar, Deathball, Focus fire, Get weak ez mechs first, first few kills mean the most coz Snowball mang etc.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 29 December 2018 - 03:22 AM.


#7 Steel Raven

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 12:54 PM

It really depends on play style but if your talking Stealth Armor, it gives Assaults limited benefits due to their large frame. It will keep LRMs locks at bay with the exception of Narcs but ECM should be enough.

Many may be trying The B33f's Spooky Atlas ninja technique and flank the enemy but as OZHomerOZ pointed out, the current NASCAR dynamic in PUG drops doesn't really benefit slow moving assaults working solo.

#8 Darakor Stormwind

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 02:00 PM

Okay, how does the Atlas DC stack up when people "just" use ECM and not Stealth? I am asking because I keep feeling that any DC Atlas is just a liability.

#9 Void Angel

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 02:09 PM

Wait, wait, you were talking about Stealth Armor? No, I'd never use Stealth Armor on an Atlas - it's too slow to really take advantage of the sensor invisibility, and too big to avoid visual spotting.

The D-DC is a good Assault, with the caveat that the only thing it does really well is brawl. It doesn't have the high mounts for corner poking, it can't carry a huge array of low-tonnage weapons (note its hardpoint locations.) And again, I haven't played regularly for a while now - yet for a long time, nothing took a licking and kept on kicking like an Atlas. But unless the pilot knows how to position with a slow, short-ranged 'mech, and how torso twist properly (not just spreading damage, but how to play that twist-and-shoot mini-game against other brawlers,) well... He's going to die in a screaming pyre of humiliation and shame.

I'm guessing that's what you're seeing in your matches.

Stealth Armor on an Atlas! What do they teach them in these schools?

#10 OZHomerOZ

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 03:26 PM

The DDC Atlas gets ECM but misses out on quirks that other Atlai have.
If you don't want or need ECM, their maybe better choices of Atlas.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 29 December 2018 - 03:27 PM.


#11 Tesunie

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 03:47 PM

Only way I can see Stealth armor on an Atlas being useful is to break missile locks. Otherwise, it's too situational and your crit spaces probably could be placed to better use elsewhere.

If the Altas had higher hard point mounts for reasonable sniping, Stealth armor may be more viable for it. But as it is, it's uses are very limited, mostly to just breaking locks... (Though I'm not saying it can't work, just I don't see much other strengths to the concept.)

#12 Void Angel

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 06:10 PM

Even breaking missile locks would be highly suspect, because the Atlas is a 100 ton Battlemech. As such, nearly all of its builds are space-restricted, not tonnage restricted. So you're using a lot of internal space for that stealth armor. Added to the fact that you're already stuck cramming all your missile and ballistic hardpoints into one respective torso each, the inability to mount heat sinks and ammo elsewhere is going to be difficult to manage. You'd have to try and mount a max-tonnage engine, but there's a point of diminished returns for that - heck, you'd have to dispense with Endo-Steel just to fit enough ammo with the space constraints...

I do love my D-DC, but Homer is correct; the ECM is an integral part of the 'mech's appeal, so if you're not using ECM it's better to pick another Atlas.

Also:

Posted Image

Edited by Void Angel, 29 December 2018 - 06:12 PM.


#13 Tesunie

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 07:33 PM

View PostVoid Angel, on 29 December 2018 - 06:10 PM, said:

I do love my D-DC, but Homer is correct; the ECM is an integral part of the 'mech's appeal, so if you're not using ECM it's better to pick another Atlas.

Also:

The ECM is more than sufficient without need of Stealth Armor on top of that. So yeah, if you are taking a D-DC, I'd have to agree to not bother with Stealth, but do take the ECM. Otherwise... why are you taking the D-DC?

#14 OZHomerOZ

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 12:52 AM

View PostDarakor Stormwind, on 29 December 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

Okay, how does the Atlas DC stack up when people "just" use ECM and not Stealth? I am asking because I keep feeling that any DC Atlas is just a liability.


I mostly use the DDC when it comes to Atlases using the build I mentioned above, cause whilst the others have armour quirks they are inferior to other assaults mechs due to their generalist hardpoint layout.

If I wanna boat anything, other assaults are better, except armour quirks possibly.
For example if I wanna boat Heavy gauss their are better assault platforms for that Anni, Mauler, Cyclops etc.
Wanna boat Dakka then Mauler, DW, Cyclops not Atlas.

So one of the unique things the Atlas has is a variant Assualt mech with ECM, kinda uncommon, so I made a build to complement that.

IMO brawl Atlases (in fact any assualt mech) are a waste coz your frequently unable to use your greatest assest (firepower) due to range.
And MWO isnt the sort of game where being a meatshield is the best stratergy almost always.
So
Assualt brawling is dead/(not the optimium) I heard Proton say on his streams once or twice.

So Focus on mid range or better with your assualt mech as 270 meter limits will surely be a detrement to your effectiveness.

I really like my Dual RAC5 and triple MRM 20 DPS monster.

I can delete Assualt mechs (Turrets ;)
I can shoot from 550 metres to zero
I can sneak around
I can delete light mechs with excessive fire power

With its native structure quirks and skill tree upgrade I can hit overide alot.

Use it to fill choke points full of lead in short order.

Doh I'm biased


I like it alot, thou it works best with a buddy

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 30 December 2018 - 12:57 AM.


#15 Toha Heavy Industries

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 02:29 AM

Stealth helps with vanishing and reposition.
Once they found you and you don't move you'll get shot at, possibly called out and primed.

It works for fast lights which can get in and out fast.
It's not working so well for a huge, slow 100 ton assault with one of the most iconic silhouettes of the whole franchise.

And the hardpoints of the atlas aren't acutally in favor since you can't peek well over cover.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 30 December 2018 - 03:12 AM.


#16 Spheroid

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 09:44 AM

My scores seem average or above average. I bought and leveled one after reading this thread. Hardly useless.

My build is a 325 STD, AC-20, 2x ASRM6, ASRM4, 2x mlas, 15 DHS. Heat is fine running constant stealth provided at least one coolshot for heavy combat.

#17 panzer1b

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 10:25 AM

The d-dc had its time during the age where ECM mechs were few and far between, and also when there was not as many choices for assaults. If you wanted to brawl in any assault, the only true king was the fatlas, one just happened to give the benefit of ECM and still carry enough brawly guns to justify its existence.

Nowadays ECM is so common and the fatlas has been almost completely obsoleted by other assaults and even some heavys that all brawl better that its just nothing to write home about. heck, with the agility nerfs the fatlas recieved post engine desync (same story with brawler kodiak which may as well be a clam fatlas), its been thrown into the ultra situational obsolete bin along with many other of the classic older mechs.

A bit of a side note, but stealth really doesnt work anymore period since the meta has changed to almost entirely include dealing damage and avoiding taking damage as the 2 cornerstones of the quickplay world. If your mech is not 100% outfitted for damage (with a secondary concern of avoiding enemy damage, specifically small size, speed and agility helps as does high damage per exposure PPFLD), you are throwing the game into the hands of those on your team and not your own. Believe me, i still occasionally play some of teh classics like teh ECM shadowcat and my ability to directly influence game outcomes goes from so-so to almost none. I still have alot of fun and enjoy playing stealthy flanker/harasser mechs as well as many lights, but in today's quickplay mode, you really need to be running heavys or assaults with loadouts focused more on dishing out damage then taking hits or harassing enemy teams from the shadows.

When it comes to effective use of ECM and stealth, i have to say that mobileish heavys with high damage per exposure is your best bet. A hellbringer can bring ECM and not attract much attention (since any half decent loadout on it has at least 500m effective range), move around the battlefield at will, and provide a very respectable punch to someone who is not aware of its presense while both distracting the enemy and taking little to no return fire in the process. Assaults due to being super large and just unable to hide ECM or not, and while you might as well take ECM if the chassis supports it, its benefits are much more negligible on a massive slow assault then on a heavy which carries ~75% the firepower of said assault, moves 50% faster if not more, and isnt the size of a barn.

#18 S 0 L E N Y A

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 01:45 PM

If somebody fails to notice the atlas bc of stealth armor, then you should win that fight no matter what you in

#19 renzor51

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 01:55 AM

I've been enjoying my Atlas D-DC. I built it as a dual RAC5 build (build here), and I chose the ECM on purpose to help give me an edge with extra facetime from careful positions.

In some matches, I've seen people using this mech as some kind of PPC sniper from far away, huge and bulky and all by itself. That doesn't really make sense to me.

I wouldn't use stealth armor for this. That seems pointless on an Atlas because they're easy to see without targeting. But the ECM is definitely useful, and since I've been usually (mostly) front line trying to lead pushes, it also shields guys near me. I try to stay with others so that, with the ECM, I won't be focused on as much. When I was thinking of this build, I didn't think to check the quirks, and I was disappointed to see that the ECM model doesn't have the massive structure quirks of the others, but oh well. I've been getting average or better match scores so far, and I still have a lot of skill points to invest.

#20 Princeps Ibram Cain

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 12:00 PM

If you mean the DC then youre using it very bad if you think is useless. If you talk about the stealth armor i dont have idea, never use it.





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