157 replies to this topic

[HammerMaster]

Assaults are still over burdened with the mobility Nerf.

As far as other stuff. As I said it won't go back to it but beta players who used the bloom reticule know what I mean BUT it's not gonna change even if I persuade you.

WHAT CAN FLIPPING change is the LRM as I have outlined above.
No out of LOS missle lockon WITHOUT spot mechanic/TAG/NARC(c3 please)
While firing as such , slow lock, slow velocity, high arc, YUGE spread.
While IN LOS , fast(insta)lock, HIGH velocity, low arc, much less spread.

IIT CAN BE DONE!

Edited by HammerMaster, 14 January 2019 - 05:28 AM.

[Curccu]

50 50, on 13 January 2019 - 11:35 PM, said:

Don't I know it. Was mucking about with the Kodiak last night and even with full mobility it still handles like a dump truck, you barely notice a difference which then debates the reason for allocating the points and that was the reason for the idea. Yes, it may not be as efficient to devote so many points to a particular tree but there is a bonus for doing that so if a player was to put 40 points into the mobility tree you get double the benefit or something. Right at the moment, there would be very optimal skill builds which can come right down to splitting hairs between a node on one tree vs another or some trees are completely ignored.
Meh... just a thought.

Played my 1st Kodiak game last weekend since 2017 and it was my last until that mech gets some major mobility buff...

[HammerMaster]

Curccu, on 14 January 2019 - 05:17 AM, said:

Played my 1st Kodiak game last weekend since 2017 and it was my last until that mech gets some major mobility buff...

Some 80 tonners can be very usable.
As you go up it sees varying degrees of "wow slow"
100 tonners are purely gimped.

[cougurt]

HammerMaster, on 14 January 2019 - 04:53 AM, said:

Assaults are still over burdened with the mobility Nerf.

As far as other stuff. As I said it won't go back to it but beta players who used the bloom reticule know what I mean BUT it's not gonna change even if I persuade you.

WHAT CAN FLIPPING change is the LRM as I have outlined above.
No out of LOS missle lockon WITHOUT spot mechanic/TAG/NARC
While firing as such , slow lock, slow velocity, high arc, YUGE spread.
While IN LOS , fast(insta)lock, HIGH velocity, low arc, much less spread.

IIT CAN BE DONE!

lock on speed has to either remain as is or be buffed for all lock on weapons, and instant locks with streaks and ATMs would be incredibly OP.

i do agree that indirect fire LRMs should be less effective. my suggestion would be to allow indirect locks as they are now, but with heavily reduced tracking strength and increased spread if the target isn't being spotted with a TAG. NARC could possibly provide a similar benefit, but its effect should be much weaker than TAG considering it has more utility and is less risky to use.

[HammerMaster]

cougurt, on 14 January 2019 - 05:34 AM, said:

lock on speed has to either remain as is or be buffed for all lock on weapons, and instant locks with streaks and ATMs would be incredibly OP.

i do agree that indirect fire LRMs should be less effective. my suggestion would be to allow indirect locks as they are now, but with heavily reduced tracking strength and increased spread if the target isn't being spotted with a TAG. NARC could possibly provide a similar benefit, but its effect should be much weaker than TAG considering it has more utility and is less risky to use.

This is purely LRM.
Don't think ATM has an IDF mode. Have to ask someone more source savvy.
The buff/Nerf cycle has to STOP! It's a wandering zero that has people up in arms each patch because the basic mechanic is flawed.(get rid of free c3 lock on) If it was proper from the start the LRM/AMS ammo and efficacy Nerf/buff would not be an issue.

IT CAN BE DONE!

Edited by HammerMaster, 14 January 2019 - 05:48 AM.

[cougurt]

HammerMaster, on 14 January 2019 - 05:43 AM, said:

This is purely LRM.
Don't think ATM has an IDF mode. Have to ask someone more source savvy.
The buff/Nerf cycle has to STOP! It's a wandering zero that has people up in arms each patch because the basic mechanic is flawed.(get rid of free c3 lock on) If it was proper from the start the LRM/AMS ammo and efficacy Nerf/buff would not be an issue.

IT CAN BE DONE!

what i'm saying is that lock on speed can't be changed for LRMs exclusively because there's only the single lock on mechanism that all guided weapons share. it would have to be redesigned to allow separate locks for multiple weapon systems, which is something that likely won't happen.

[HammerMaster]

cougurt, on 14 January 2019 - 05:54 AM, said:

what i'm saying is that lock on speed can't be changed for LRMs exclusively because there's only the single lock on mechanism that all guided weapons share. it would have to be redesigned to allow separate locks for multiple weapon systems, which is something that likely won't happen.

Of all things that can and can't be done. This is the most relevant and IS on their drawing board as per the last patch and redaction.
Say it with me! It can be done!

Edited by HammerMaster, 14 January 2019 - 06:10 AM.

[cougurt]

HammerMaster, on 14 January 2019 - 05:58 AM, said:

Of all things that can and can't be done. This is the most relevant and IS on their drawing board as per the last patch and redaction.
Say it with me! It can be done!
https://m.youtube.co...eature=youtu.be

you're referring to something completely different. yes, the behavior of LRMs (that is, things like their flight path, spread, etc.) can be adjusted independently of anything else. what CAN'T be changed is the lock on mechanic itself, because it's tied to ATMs and streaks as well.

[HammerMaster]

cougurt, on 14 January 2019 - 06:18 AM, said:

you're referring to something completely different. yes, the behavior of LRMs (that is, things like their flight path, spread, etc.) can be adjusted independently of anything else. what CAN'T be changed is the lock on mechanic itself, because it's tied to ATMs and streaks as well.

Negative Nancy.
I'm aware of that.
But this is the single most important issue we are facing barring population loss.
You can't lock a turret and that code bit has to be the key.
It CAN BE DONE!

Edited by HammerMaster, 14 January 2019 - 06:24 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

None of the guided weapons can lock a turret. What makes that the key?

[HammerMaster]

Y E O N N E, on 14 January 2019 - 06:37 AM, said:

None of the guided weapons can lock a turret. What makes that the key?

If/then statements.

It can be done!

Edited by HammerMaster, 14 January 2019 - 07:19 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

That's not the issue, dude. The issue is that the current MWO UI doesn't support that functionality in both the code and in art assets. Adding a weapon type checker in the lock code would be trivial, but that's not all that needs to be done. And anything is possible, technically, but economics have to support it.

[HammerMaster]

Y E O N N E, on 14 January 2019 - 07:24 AM, said:

That's not the issue, dude. The issue is that the current MWO UI doesn't support that functionality in both the code and in art assets. Adding a weapon type checker in the lock code would be trivial, but that's not all that needs to be done. And anything is possible, technically, but economics have to support it.

Not with that Attitude.

[GweNTLeR]

Finally watched.
The most interesting part was about lurms, too bad ASH was unable to answer what to do with them. A complicated topic of course. A lot of highly important stuff was simply ignored.
First of all, NARC. It is not the lurmers who win the games, it is NARCERS. You should be well aware of that ASH. LRM itself is not THAT harmful, it is like RACs, shines when is has enough facetime. Could one say that RACs are OP? Definitely not. However, when a player becomes narced for a minute, it is just absolutely devastating and gamebreaking. PGI understood that with those LRM buffs NARCs would become even more important and tried to nerf them, BUT nerfed them the wrong way IMO. Although, I doubt they could nerf NARC the other way without redesigning the skill tree.
The other important ignored topic was countermeasures. I was quite shocked when you said that "the velocity is a minor issue", because it was THAT SPECIFIC BUFF that actually hit ALL the countermeasures hard and made all of them MUCH less useful. AMS has lower time to react and shoot down missiles, hence more missiles make it through. Deprevation becomes less useful since there is basically less time for a target to react and hide.
And FINALLY, SKILL TREE. Target decay & velocity skills are gamechanging for LRM (If we exclude narc factor of course).
What would I do?
1. Reduce Narc duration dramatically, decrease Narc cooldown;
2. Reduce velocity for LRM or buff countermeasures;
3. Nerf Target decay skill and velocity skill (specifically for lurms), possibly rework sensors skill tree to give easier access to Deprevation nodes;
4. And MOST IMPORTANTLY, make LRMs skill dependant. How? For example, make their spread dependant on how good you were holding your lock during their flight, like starting with small and increasing if you were holding it bad. Not really transparent mechanic, but it should make them more like RACs.
All those measures should reduce the overall hatred towards lurms which should it theory bring better behavior to game.

[HammerMaster]

GweNTLeR, on 14 January 2019 - 10:03 AM, said:

Finally watched.
The most interesting part was about lurms, too bad ASH was unable to answer what to do with them. A complicated topic of course. A lot of highly important stuff was simply ignored.
First of all, NARC. It is not the lurmers who win the games, it is NARCERS. You should be well aware of that ASH. LRM itself is not THAT harmful, it is like RACs, shines when is has enough facetime. Could one say that RACs are OP? Definitely not. However, when a player becomes narced for a minute, it is just absolutely devastating and gamebreaking. PGI understood that with those LRM buffs NARCs would become even more important and tried to nerf them, BUT nerfed them the wrong way IMO. Although, I doubt they could nerf NARC the other way without redesigning the skill tree.
The other important ignored topic was countermeasures. I was quite shocked when you said that "the velocity is a minor issue", because it was THAT SPECIFIC BUFF that actually hit ALL the countermeasures hard and made all of them MUCH less useful. AMS has lower time to react and shoot down missiles, hence more missiles make it through. Deprevation becomes less useful since there is basically less time for a target to react and hide.
And FINALLY, SKILL TREE. Target decay & velocity skills are gamechanging for LRM (If we exclude narc factor of course).
What would I do?
1. Reduce Narc duration dramatically, decrease Narc cooldown;
2. Reduce velocity for LRM or buff countermeasures;
3. Nerf Target decay skill and velocity skill (specifically for lurms), possibly rework sensors skill tree to give easier access to Deprevation nodes;
4. And MOST IMPORTANTLY, make LRMs skill dependant. How? For example, make their spread dependant on how good you were holding your lock during their flight, like starting with small and increasing if you were holding it bad. Not really transparent mechanic, but it should make them more like RACs.
All those measures should reduce the overall hatred towards lurms which should it theory bring better behavior to game.

He did say roll back the last three LRM buffs?
I would point you to my statement on how to fix and grab a torch with me to prod them to TEST SERVER that idea.
They have something the man himself posted he was redacting sue to it not "being ready for the wild".
They HAVE SOMETHING they are sitting on.
TEST SERVER it!
IT CAN BE DONE!

Edited by HammerMaster, 14 January 2019 - 10:24 AM.

[HammerMaster]

Nevermind!
Finally!
https://mwomercs.com...e__pid__6211344

It CAN and IS done!

[Y E O N N E]

That's not different lock code, dude.

[HammerMaster]

Y E O N N E, on 14 January 2019 - 12:42 PM, said:

That's not different lock code, dude.

It's not everything I wished for but it's a start.
Let's get on that test server!