Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
Yes, but gauss already has flavor, and is balanced. This type of change is absolutely unnecessary.
OHHHHHHHH... You're one of THOSE people, who believe that the gauss rifle is a "sniper" weapon.
Where in lore is it specified that the gauss weapon is a role specific weapon? Don't bother, I've already done that research a few years back when someone else made the same mistake... There is no where in lore that specifies the gauss rifle as a 'sniper specific' weapon.
You do realize that there's going to be differences in translation from BT to MW right?
Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
It's not "pre-concieved" it's a conclusion based on the rhetoric I'd seen for 4 pages.
Oh no, it is. Because if you are taking my word as it is, not a nagging bias, Gauss hate is far from your conclusion.
Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
Argue for changes in society that would result in the elimination of all penalties for amoral behavior and I'll conclude you desire to be amoral, yeah...
Or is it amoral? Likewise, in that context, what do you think it would have been achieved to be amoral? What if the changes were necessary to curtail something, or to solve something? Why does this have to be attributed to the person than the situation?
Don't get me wrong, I don't think this change is necessary, but okay, is Nerf = Gauss Hate? Really? That is where your logic goes.
Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
You've acknowledged it's stupid and therefore a bad idea, drop it and move on.
Yet, we still see a reply from you.
But no, I prefer a discussion. Maybe pick apart the idea some more, maybe add a different approach.
Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
I would have, had you stopped arguing for the change, shifted to a different idea that wouldn't result in the weapon being removed from slower builds, ie: 'mechs that are significantly slower than 70kph. It'd kill it for most IS 'mechs, and even quite a few Clan 'mechs.
You mean the "reticle shake" idea i also threw? Someone's not really reading one's post.
Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
stated my reasons, in game facts of the weapon itself, lore facts, facts of the compromises necessary when equipping a 'mech with gauss.
You don't like the facts and figuratively stick your fingers in your ears and start repeating the word 'irrelevant'... That's not stupid that's arrogant willful ignorance
It comes into the conversation because it shows the proper place for your 'slow down' idea. Y'know discussion, meant to generate new ideas and so on...
Wrong, that's just you adding irrelevant stuff. You raised the point that you yourself suggested a slow-down idea based on heat which is grounded on lore.
I see no relation to the topic, it's relevant to YOUR idea. But your idea, isn't exactly relevant to the thread because it's about gauss.
We are talking about gauss, not about the heat system. Find another thread.
Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
No, it doesn't 'kill every hot build in the game' it provides a risk-vs-reward for the "alpha centric" firing mentality that the majority of player have lazily fallen into. "If you're not riding that heat curve at near 100% the entire match, you're palying inefficiently" is what I recall someone spouting at me. The problem is, this game has had a LONG standing issue with TTK being so short. You either buff the crap out of armor to fix, or nerf the crap out of weapons to fix, OR MAYBE utilize a mechanic that encourages people to not vomit their fire every possible chance...
Well, what do you think will happen to alpha builds like gauss-vomit versus AC builds that are rather cool. Slap 2x UAC10 and 2x Gauss on a kodiak, you're ******* done.
Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
It's the reason I liked the change to torso loss with LFE and cXL's. People now need to pay attention to their heat and their ST damage when fighting, encouraging them to fight more thoughtfully, not just mashing the fire button ever darn time all their weapons finish with reloading...
And I'm okay with that too.
Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
The effect would detrimental enough that no one would put gauss on heavies and assaults. They're already the slowest on the field and have issues with being left behind by the rest of the team, no one is going to take a weapon that exacerbates that problem. If they did, the result would be a thin line of stragglers, or 'mechs that wouldn't be firing a primary weapon often enough to be of significant value to the rest of the team.
And you can't say that, instead of going on a tangent about me being a hater, or about you having a different idea?
Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
I'm not the one pulling out statistics for ports in Indonesia....
Doesn't matter if your facts come from BT when it doesn't even have a connection to what we are talking about. It's about the gauss, not the heat system.
Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
Yeah but you have to act like you've been insulted focus on something and act like it's offensive, then the mods will come out in 'defense' of the poor trodden soul. I've seen it happen more than once on these forums. Hilarious they can be manipulated like that...
So where's the redacted posts?
Exactly.
Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
Because a 'mech is a compilation of various systems, where compromises based on the affects of different interactions of those systems result in over all viability. Make a weapon non-viable for all but faster 'mechs, and you've just made a LOT of builds non-viable.
Well, based from above, why would it be non-viable? Couldn't they just fire from a firing line? Why do they have to push shooting gauss while moving?
Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
You're encouraging a play style that has already been proven to be failing style in game - the lone heavy/assault hiding most of the time, not sharing armor, taking pot shots at the enemy from a distance only to be quickly eaten by fast moving lights/mediums.
When a 'mech gets caught out solo and eaten by lights/mediums the generally agreed conclusion is that pilot was playing stupidly, and should have been with the rest of his team, no one feels sorry for that person, no one says, "Gosh that poor sniper/LRMboat/et al..."
Lone? If the Gauss slows down the user, it slows EVERY other users in the team. Likewise, they don't have to shoot while moving, thereby not slow themselves in the process of catching up.
Are we really balancing by nascar? Might as well balance by potato.
Oh, do you mean it's about when I wanted it to be used with long range? Don't you think it's for faster mechs instead? Not because it's geared for something, it can only be used for that role.
Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
"Tanking fire", yeah they can do that, once or twice at best. Even heavies and assaults depend on mobility to move them into cover and back into the pack.
But that's not true, not even of mediums, if you've nerfed their movement during charge cycle.
Assaults and heavies have rather acceleration, that means that 0.75s of charge isn't exactly much slowing down. If anything it affects the high-acceleration mechs even more, because they are quick to stop.
And aside from that, mediums, using gauss, not HG, would have an adequate speed to find a good spot and then shoot there. If your positioning is good and not from an obvious place it's an enough compensation.
Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
Yeah, as long as you don't get hit your fine, but with lol-builds like that, that's kind of the point. Heck even the triple gauss Cataphract was 'viable' and that 'mech had less armor than a light and only 10 shots... the caveat being, "Don't let no one shoot at you, ever." That didn't mean it was a "good build" or a "good idea", or that gauss needed to be nerfed.
Never said that it was good, that being said It was waay better than AC20 for the breathing room it provides. Think of the different viability between a Gauss-Urbie and AC20-Urbie, and that is exactly the point. The difference in weapons' advantages, not the paper-thin armor Urbie itself.
Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
Restricting gauss to "long range" does not "work well" at all. You dedicate at least 12 tons to a weapon that becomes a handicap at close ranges, and isolate its play to a style that is unsupportable and frowned upon in the community
Restrict? More like encourage. You can do mid to close-range. If anything, I use gauss in my urbie at around 450 meters, mainly because AC20 sucks at that range.
Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
Let's get 'fresh' and add flavor with ACTUAL new content instead...
I'd like an Urbie IIC please, and Bane.
Oh wait no, those are just mechs.
I'd like PVE please.
Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
4 seconds of reload, plus the .75 seconds of charge (and nerfed speed), or getting rid of the charge up, and having just a 4 second reload (with 4 seconds of nerfed speed)?
4.00s of CD + 0.75s charge with slowdown.
Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
The play style this enforces is an isolated, away from the time, 'find a sniper's nest' play style that we already know, does not work, and is not wanted in MWO.
So, lets just prevent all roles that doesn't work?
Could we stop background lurming too?
Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
Experienced players would rather 'snipe' with ER PPC's anyway. It's a longer range weapon, the speed can be brought up to par with gauss simply by selecting a 'mech quirked appropriately, or loading appropriate equipment, and proper skill selection.
Here's an idea, why don't we bring back Gauss-PPC? Doesn't have to be at 4x HSL but 3x would be enough. That Night-Gyr needs love.
Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
Just not this idea. It's bad.
Thank you for your input.
Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
You tend to play 'mechs that are more vulnerable to the weapon the weapon than not, playing lights and mediums more than 50% of the time, and you are dismissive of the skill necessary and the challenges to utilize the weapon effectively at close-in ranges, when ultimately the change would encourage a play style and make 'mechs falling under this nerf more vulnerable to the classes of 'mechs you play more than 50% of the time.
Don't use gauss close-in ranges, that's for HG or AC20. That's why i'm dismissive of it. HGs in close-range though, you'd be pretty much exposed on mechs that were bearing them anyways. Now you could poke HGs sure, but 50-point alpha with low-heat, versus 2x AC20 that you cannot do without ghost-heat? If anything HG needs nerf if they intend to keep the two-at-a-time.
I also like the challenge, likewise i'd like to shoot faster and farther. You said before "Risk vs Reward", well a 4s CD on a gauss, or heavy-gauss for that matter would be a good risk. Now LGR -- that guy needs 10 damage first.
What do you think you achieved when you pointed out I am advocating for the nerf of 50% of what I play? I mean aside from being captain obvious, that I play exactly half of the classes of mechs, half of the time, don't you think I am actually interested of this in the first place?
Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:
I'm going to say you hate the weapon, that's the conclusion I get from your statements and how vociferously you've stuck to this suggestion you've admitted is "stupid".
And I'm going to say that you love the weapon, and that's why any idea which includes nerfing it means someone must hate it, therefore they are a bad person.
Product9, on 21 January 2019 - 08:33 AM, said:
Heh, that happens. I just noticed that I was using KPH, instead of kph or km/h which are more widely accepted abbreviations, because that's what I saw and my subconscious just went with it.
Careful, though, as m/s isn't the same as MPH either.
Yeah well, my bad. I did messed up the velocity. I meant to say m/s, not KPH.
Edited by The6thMessenger, 21 January 2019 - 05:56 PM.
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