41 replies to this topic

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Whammy wins for mid range and beyond.

WHM-6R can do twin goose and lasers, which no roughneck can come close to.

WHM-6D has got tons of dif laser builds, which even the all energy roughneck cannot compete with.

The Blackwidow has 4 torso mounted ballistics, again offering a lot of builds that the roughneck could not come close to.

Best case for ballistics on a rough neck is two highmounts in the same torso. The arm mounts are all but useless.

Only neat thing the Roughneck currently has that does not really exist on the Whammy is that the Powerhouse can do a mini Atlas build.

[Acersecomic]

S 0 L E N Y A, on 05 February 2019 - 05:00 PM, said:

Only neat thing the Roughneck currently has that does not really exist on the Whammy is that the Powerhouse can do a mini Atlas build.

A spot which is reserved for Orions.

[justcallme A S H]

Mister Maf, on 05 February 2019 - 04:34 PM, said:

Dunno, fam. I don't watch or particularly care about 1v1 tournaments and I have a hunch the OP doesn't either. In quickplay my Roughnecks can take a beating and come out on top six ways from Sunday where the Warhammer just dies unless I sit in second line, which is just not how I play.

Well when I'm using a WHM it stays alive just fine. Again though - just because you have the best tool doesn't mean you know how to use it.

[General Solo]

Warhammers heavier 5T , can make a Boom Whammy

Bought A roughneck, it has nice quirks

Like em both

[- World Eater -]

Warhammer by far.

[ShiverMeRivets]

Roughnecks are my favorites, but Warhammers are excellent mechs too. Durability-wise, the Roughnecks win easilly. Warhammers offer a much wider spectrum of builds.

Builds-wise, the RGHs are all about the high shoulder mounts, be it lasers or a (one!) big ballistic. So, if you want just one big cannon, RGHs will be great. The arm ballistics are not very good - low and with lots of convergence issues. The arms are good for MGs or lasers (in the Powerhouse hero).

The RGH-2A is imo the best single-HGR carrier in the game: HGR+Case+3MPLs+STD280, for an alpha of 43 all pin-point damage, and you keep the 3 center MPLs even when you lose both STs (make the most out of the standard engine). Tough S.O.B.
https://mwo.smurfy-n...5c88d49ff7bc74d

RGH-1C is superb SRM+big ballistc brawler. RGH-3 and Reaver are superb for big lasers/PPCs.

What makes some of the best WHM builds are the ST ballistics hard points, supplemented by a good number of energy hard points. So unlike the RGHs, you can carry 2 big ballistics without resorting to putting them in the arms. This is why WHM-6R and Black Widow are the best ones (the others are good too).

[justcallme A S H]

CASE is a total noob trap.

Don't bother wasting tonnage on it, ever.

[Tesunie]

justcallme A S H, on 06 February 2019 - 02:16 AM, said:

CASE is a total noob trap.

Don't bother wasting tonnage on it, ever.

CASE is more situational, and rarely useful. For Gauss in a "zombie" styled mech, CASE can mitigate that 90% chance for explosion from hitting your CT (where you still have, in the situation above, 3 MPLs (18 damage alpha)).

You could say that CASE is case specific. It's very rarely useful (considering ammo has a 10% chance to explode when destroyed), and typically a waste of tonnage for IS mechs. (All Clan designs come with CASE built in for free.)

Edit: In the case of the Roughneck above, that's almost half of it's available firepower, protected farther by CASE. It's actually worth while in that specific build. Most other times it's typically a waste of tonnage and crit space.

Edited by Tesunie, 06 February 2019 - 08:19 AM.

[ShiverMeRivets]

justcallme A S H, on 06 February 2019 - 02:16 AM, said:

CASE is a total noob trap.

Don't bother wasting tonnage on it, ever.

In almost any other case - except this one. Tesunie, already gave the explanation above.
The HGR Roughneck-2A is the only mech in which I use CASE.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

ShiverMeRivets, on 06 February 2019 - 09:41 AM, said:

In almost any other case - except this one. Tesunie, already gave the explanation above.
The HGR Roughneck-2A is the only mech in which I use CASE.

It is just a waste of tonnage tbh.
Gauss comes with 10 hp (so 10 damage if it blows up)
H Gauss comes with 15 HP (15 damage)

IF your gauss blows up, you already lost half of your firepower. CASE prevents damage migration towards the CT which at max 40% so it's is 4 to 6 damage.
That is after the ST on which the gauss is mounted got it's internals depleted.
If you die from a gauss damage migration towards your CT, you've been effectively dead anyways.

Putting CASE next to a gauss is a waste of tonnage. Yes, even though it's only 0,5tons, it's still a waste. Get more ammo instead. Or invest it onto a bigger engine/armor.

CASE makes sense if you got an ammo pinyata lrm boat or something but for Gauss it's just not effective in any realistic way.

[Tesunie]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 06 February 2019 - 09:56 AM, said:

It is just a waste of tonnage tbh.
Gauss comes with 10 hp (so 10 damage if it blows up)
H Gauss comes with 15 HP (15 damage)

Didn't Gauss have 3 HP? Or did they change that?

Last I knew, when Gauss explodes, it deals 20 damage to the internals of a mech similar to an ammo explosion. I am not certain about the damage values for the H. Gauss's explosion damage.

I also recall that Gauss has a 90% chance to explode when destroyed (unless this also changed). So, with the larger amounts of damage, it can be worth it. (Though I do 'forget' that damage transfers even from ammo explosions are reduced for each section they travel through. I mean, I 'know' it, I just keep not thinking about it...)

I find CASE rarely helpful, but it does have the occasional uses. I don't think any of my mechs currently run with CASE, but in the past when I kept dying from ammo explosions (despite it being a 10% chance to explode) I have had to use it before. (This is LONG into the past... not recent.)

Edited by Tesunie, 06 February 2019 - 11:31 AM.

[Acersecomic]

To each their own, but I enjoy the comfort of having CASE when I can easily shave that much weight from legs which no one ever goes for on me anyways.

[Steel Raven]

My friends love the Heavy Gauss but I always get a crit within 5 minutes whenever I carry the Gauss on my Mad or Roughneck. I end up getting a high score with the AC/20 though the HG is the better gun.

[justcallme A S H]

ShiverMeRivets, on 06 February 2019 - 09:41 AM, said:

In almost any other case - except this one. Tesunie, already gave the explanation above.
The HGR Roughneck-2A is the only mech in which I use CASE.

If it made a difference, more often than not, I'd use it on my Solaris builds that run HGauss. In fact many would use it in 1v1 tournaments / Solaris etc. The fact it doesn't and not one top player uses it, should be enough of a reason.

I mean how many times out of maybe 100 matches have I had a HGauss explosion crit and then transferred to the CT to affect a battle? Not once.

Why? Because as TOHA pointed out - the damage is so utterly insignificant it doesn't matter. It truly is a noob trap.

For 0.5T you can put more armour or ammo, that is worth more than about 4-6 damage to structure or whatever, which needs a crit roll to occur anyway.


The ONLY time it would matter if is you had ammo in your CT and it could potentially crit and explode. -However- as Gauss Ammo does not explode, you put that in your CT (and the torso with HGauss) and you have zero risk of that happening. I mean by all means put CASE on there and live in some fariy land that it's helping you - the reality is it's a waste.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 06 February 2019 - 02:19 PM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Tesunie, on 06 February 2019 - 11:31 AM, said:

Didn't Gauss have 3 HP? Or did they change that?

Last I knew, when Gauss explodes, it deals 20 damage to the internals of a mech similar to an ammo explosion. I am not certain about the damage values for the H. Gauss's explosion damage.

20 damage is actually correct. i looked it up. H gauss does 25 damage. L gauss does 16 damage.
That translate to 6,4 up to 10 damage at max (only if you have zero internals left on ST).

Still, it's not nearly enough to have an realistic effect. And the tonnage is better spent elsewhere.

3 HP is incorrect, it's 10 for gauss and L gauss, 15 for h gauss (and 5 hp for c gauss).


I would advocate case for certain mechs, namely ammo pinyata lrm mechs and AC mechs who happen to have their ammo in the ST (because their legs are getting focused). For any sort of gauss boat it just doesn't make much sense.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 06 February 2019 - 02:09 PM.

[Tesunie]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 06 February 2019 - 02:08 PM, said:

3 HP is incorrect, it's 10 for gauss and L gauss, 15 for h

That's why I added the disclaimer (marks of uncertainty). I know at one point, before MGs, AC2s and LBx10s got increased crit chance, and back when all equipment had 10HP, Gauss and ECM was reduced to 3 HP. I wasn't certain if this was changed since back then or not. It was the same time that Gauss was increased from 10% explosion chance (same as ammo) to 90% chance...

Sorry, I don't pay much attention to Gauss anymore. I have a very hard time trying to utilize that weapon to good affect. I can manage the Lt. Gauss charge up, but it's a fight to do so for me. I know they are great weapons... just not great for me (for the moment).

[ShiverMeRivets]

justcallme A S H, on 06 February 2019 - 01:03 PM, said:

If it made a difference, more often than not, I'd use it on my Solaris builds that run HGauss. In fact many would use it in 1v1 tournaments / Solaris etc. The fact it doesn't and not one top player uses it, should be enough of a reason.

I mean how many times out of maybe 100 matches have I had a HGauss explosion crit and then transferred to the CT to affect a battle? Not once.

Why? Because as TOHA pointed out - the damage is so utterly insignificant it doesn't matter. It truly is a noob trap.

For 0.5T you can put more armour or ammo, that is worth more than about 4-6 damage to structure or whatever, which needs a crit roll to occur anyway.


The ONLY time it would matter if is you had ammo in your CT and it could potentially crit and explode. -However- as Gauss Ammo does not explode, you put that in your CT (and the torso with HGauss) and you have zero risk of that happening. I mean by all means put CASE on there and live in some fariy land that it's helping you - the reality is it's a waste.

I took your advice and removed CASE, shaved a bit of armor from the shield arms and legs to fit a TC1 instead.
1st game got killed by weapon explosion.

Murphy much?

[justcallme A S H]

If you died to 4-6 CT damage then you were already red cored CT.

Just because you died from the exploision doesn't mean you were going to live.

[Steel Raven]

I use case with Gauss just because of how the Crit system works (it's the only reason why MG lights scare assaults)

It's personal preference how you want to spend that one ton, a few players still rock IS XL builds for extra fire power while I only have a handful of mechs I would trust with a XL engine

[ShiverMeRivets]

justcallme A S H, on 07 February 2019 - 03:41 PM, said:

If you died to 4-6 CT damage then you were already red cored CT.

Just because you died from the exploision doesn't mean you were going to live.

The dual gauss Thanatos died immediately after and we won the game. I was CT red from a back shot and still had front CT armor. Rare, and insignificant anyway (we still won), but the ability to lose both ST is part of the schtick of this build.
I will continue running the TC1 instead of CASE because I liked the reduced target details times.