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The Change To Lurms Is Very Dangerous


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#1 Brizna

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 01:54 PM

The philosophy behind the change is very commendable, encouraging lurmers to be more proactive and more engaged in battle looks like a cool idea but I am very worried about one thing; As it is lurm pilots who stay behind cover and fire missiles at 800 meters are pretty useless to begin with on the other hand organized lurming at mid range is what can in certain situations be very competitive, so nerfing the aspect in which lurms are already weakest while buffing the one aspect they are strongest has potential to generate an OP weapon in the right hands.

Honestly if I were PGI I would leave lurms as they are, they are not perfect but they are working decently enough while being a very delicate system to alter.

Edited by Brizna, 06 February 2019 - 01:54 PM.


#2 Natred

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 02:02 PM

Just throwing this out there lock on weapons should not be in a first person mech shooter. Change my mind. Lol

#3 J O K E R

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 02:09 PM

View PostNatred, on 06 February 2019 - 02:02 PM, said:

Change my mind


[Redacted]

as much as I'm not a fan of lock on weapons, MWO isnt just a first person shooter

Edited by draiocht, 07 February 2019 - 12:53 PM.
unconstructive, replies removed


#4 Gantry

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 02:23 PM

I think the LRM changes are great, but I'm super concerned about the buff to ATMs. Buffing the hit points of ATMs because there are less of them forgets to account for the fact that they scale damage at different ranges. This change seems ok at 500+ meters, but the closer damage tiers will just become all the more deadly, which sounds awful to me.

#5 Mister Maf

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 03:23 PM

View PostNatred, on 06 February 2019 - 02:13 PM, said:

[Redacted]

[Redacted] Anyway, there's a reason this is being done on the PTS instead of the live game. Give it a chance before passing judgement. PGI always uses extreme values as a stress test in the PTS.

Edited by draiocht, 07 February 2019 - 12:54 PM.
Quote Clean-up, reference


#6 Formosa The God

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 03:59 PM

View PostMister Maf, on 06 February 2019 - 03:23 PM, said:

[Redacted] Anyway, there's a reason this is being done on the PTS instead of the live game. Give it a chance before passing judgement. PGI always uses extreme values as a stress test in the PTS.



I liked the change in the PTS, only played a couple of games though.

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 07 February 2019 - 12:55 PM.
Quote Clean-up, reference


#7 SirSmokes

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 04:55 PM

View PostNatred, on 06 February 2019 - 02:02 PM, said:

Just throwing this out there lock on weapons should not be in a first person mech shooter. Change my mind. Lol

http://www.sarna.net...g_Range_Missile Major lore weapon yes should be.

#8 Cyanogene

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 05:05 PM

View PostNatred, on 06 February 2019 - 02:02 PM, said:

Just throwing this out there lock on weapons should not be in a first person mech shooter. Change my mind. Lol


MWO is not a first person shooter, it's a vehicular combat game. Keep your wet dreams of having only peashooters in the game to yourself.

#9 thievingmagpi

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 05:18 PM

View PostHazeclaw, on 06 February 2019 - 02:09 PM, said:


MWO isnt just a first person shooter


View PostCyanogene, on 06 February 2019 - 05:05 PM, said:


MWO is not a first person shooter, it's a vehicular combat game. Keep your wet dreams of having only peashooters in the game to yourself.




you can't make this **** up

leave it up to the brown sea to never disappoint

Edited by thievingmagpi, 06 February 2019 - 05:19 PM.


#10 J O K E R

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 05:43 PM

View Postthievingmagpi, on 06 February 2019 - 05:18 PM, said:






you can't make this **** up

leave it up to the brown sea to never disappoint


well it does have elements that are not often found in first person shooters that alter the gameplay a bit, do you disagree? Or can you just throw brown stuff around in the brown sea?

also I didn't realize everyone was so serious, holy ****

#11 Cyanogene

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 06:10 PM

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 07 February 2019 - 12:58 PM.
unconstructive


#12 FupDup

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 06:13 PM

View PostHazeclaw, on 06 February 2019 - 05:43 PM, said:

well it does have elements that are not often found in first person shooters that alter the gameplay a bit, do you disagree? Or can you just throw brown stuff around in the brown sea?

also I didn't realize everyone was so serious, holy ****

The basic gameplay model is that you see the world from a first-person perspective and you aim + shoot weapons at other players. There are a bunch of Mechwarrior-specific elements layered on top of that, but if you strip away all the fluff it is more or less an FPS (just a rather unconventional one).

#13 50 50

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 06:17 PM

View PostSirSmokes, on 06 February 2019 - 04:55 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net...g_Range_Missile Major lore weapon yes should be.


How do you figure that LRMS should have a lock on from the lore?

#14 Cyanogene

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 06:18 PM

View PostFupDup, on 06 February 2019 - 06:13 PM, said:

The basic gameplay model is that you see the world from a first-person perspective and you aim + shoot weapons at other players. There are a bunch of Mechwarrior-specific elements layered on top of that, but if you strip away all the fluff it is more or less an FPS (just a rather unconventional one).


The difference is that you don't control a person, you control a sci-fi tank. You also don't die in one or two hits. The only people that have problems with LRMs in this game are the ones who are so bad at the game that they constantly get killed by them, and it takes either a team effort or a metric ton of lurms to take down a mech fast. Git gut and you'll get along with lurms just fine.

#15 thievingmagpi

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 06:26 PM

View PostHazeclaw, on 06 February 2019 - 05:43 PM, said:


well it does have elements that are not often found in first person shooters that alter the gameplay a bit, do you disagree? Or can you just throw brown stuff around in the brown sea?

also I didn't realize everyone was so serious, holy ****



The game is first person.

You shoot.

EOT.

#16 thievingmagpi

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 06:34 PM

View PostCyanogene, on 06 February 2019 - 06:18 PM, said:


The difference is that you don't control a person, you control a sci-fi tank. You also don't die in one or two hits. The only people that have problems with LRMs in this game are the ones who are so bad at the game that they constantly get killed by them, and it takes either a team effort or a metric ton of lurms to take down a mech fast. Git gut and you'll get along with lurms just fine.


You control the person in the tank.

"First person" also doesn't refer to the person being controlled, but the viewpoint. lmao.

Many shooters and other FPS games have armour and health mechanics.

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 07 February 2019 - 01:00 PM.
unconstructive, replies removed


#17 oneproduct

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 06:52 PM

View Post50 50, on 06 February 2019 - 06:17 PM, said:


How do you figure that LRMS should have a lock on from the lore?


I don't have a stake in this conversation nor am I lore savvy about battletech, but just by reading that wiki page that was linked:

"...self-guided missiles..."

"...target acquisition..."

"...their warheads and guidance systems..."

Edited by oneproduct, 06 February 2019 - 06:54 PM.


#18 50 50

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 07:21 PM

View Postoneproduct, on 06 February 2019 - 06:52 PM, said:


I don't have a stake in this conversation nor am I lore savvy about battletech, but just by reading that wiki page that was linked:

"...self-guided missiles..."

"...target acquisition..."

"...their warheads and guidance systems..."


Think it's just flavour text.
Almost identical to the SRMs so means nothing really.
http://www.sarna.net...t_Range_Missile

Also worth noting that in the table top, the minimum range did not mean 'no damage' but instead that the weapon was harder to hit with.
Applies to pretty much everything with a minimum range.
Guess that in an effort to simulate that it is harder to hit with the weapon a 'no damage' approach was used.
There would probably be a few different ways to manage it when the 'skill' portion relating to the dice rolls is attributed directly to the players.

But the lock on mechanic in the table top, while little more that a rewording of the to hit dice roll, prevented firing if no hit/lock on was achieved..... which is how the Streak missiles function in MWO.

Of interest:
http://www.sarna.net...Semi-Guided_LRM

When a game like Mechwarrior is adapted from table top, there are a lot of adaptions needed to convert rules from a turn based, dice roller into a player controlled real time computer game for sure.

#19 Mister Maf

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 08:06 PM

The bulk of this discussion has gotten wildly off topic over what is in all possible ways totally semantics. It's a cross between an FPS and a vehicle-based combat sim game. Don't worry about it so much.

#20 Hauptmann Keg Steiner

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 09:11 PM

View PostGantry, on 06 February 2019 - 02:23 PM, said:

I think the LRM changes are great, but I'm super concerned about the buff to ATMs. Buffing the hit points of ATMs because there are less of them forgets to account for the fact that they scale damage at different ranges. This change seems ok at 500+ meters, but the closer damage tiers will just become all the more deadly, which sounds awful to me.

Even 10 damage a missile doesn't matter if 0 missiles regularly get through.





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