18 replies to this topic

[Sagara Sousuke 011011001]

Newish Player Here.

When I started playing I used a common Warhammer build (WHR-6R) with (2) AC10 and (4) Medium Lasers.

Two months later, I started to find I struggled with it more in matches, so switched out the AC10s for the UAC 10s and things have been a bit better.

What I hadn't realized was that the UAC build seems more efficient, whereas it weighs an extra ton per gun, it multiplies the magazine size compared with regular ACs.

Is there a drawback that I'm missing? Arguably even if you run the UAC like an AC with a single shot per reload you are still ahead in terms of ammo capacity.

[Sergeant Destroy]

Errrm, you use more ammo per "shot".

[FupDup]

For the most part the only drawback to the UAC/10 over the AC/10 is the resource costs in terms of weight and heat. If you can afford those costs it's drastically superior in nearly all situations.

The AC/10 does technically have an advantage in placing all of its damage in a single bullet rather than two bullets per trigger pull, but the drastically higher volume of fire coming out from the UAC/10 more than makes up for that.

On a side note, the ammo thing you're noticing is just a result of the UAC/10 shooting two bullets per mouse click rather than one bullet, thus your ammo counter is doubled but one ton of ammo gives you the same number of trigger pulls.

Edited by FupDup, 14 February 2019 - 12:47 PM.

[Vxheous]

Ammo capacity us the same, the difference in ammo count is due to the different number of shells. An AC-10 fires 1 shell of 10 damage per shot, while the UAC-10 fires two shells of 5 damage each per shot, so UAC-10 ammo count is doubled. The UAC-10 also has the ability to double tap, so you can actually fire 4 shells of 5 damage each, with a chance of jam as a penalty.

[Sagara Sousuke 011011001]

FupDup, on 14 February 2019 - 12:44 PM, said:

For the most part the only drawback to the UAC/10 over the AC/10 is the resource costs in terms of weight, slots, and heat. If you can afford those costs it's drastically superior in nearly all situations.

The AC/10 does technically have an advantage in placing all of its damage in a single bullet rather than two bullets per trigger pull, but the drastically higher volume of fire coming out from the UAC/10 more than makes up for that.

On a side note, the ammo thing you're noticing is just a result of the UAC/10 shooting two bullets per mouse click rather than one bullet, thus your ammo counter is doubled but one ton of ammo gives you the same number of trigger pulls.

Ah, then I misunderstood the IS UAC. I thought it was 1 round per trigger pull and that you could simply pull the trigger twice in rapid succession. Hence if you avoided the second pull (and the chance of a jam) you effectively had an AC with double ammo.

[FupDup]

Sagara Sousuke 011011001, on 14 February 2019 - 12:48 PM, said:

Ah, then I misunderstood the IS UAC. I thought it was 1 round per trigger pull and that you could simply pull the trigger twice in rapid succession. Hence if you avoided the second pull (and the chance of a jam) you effectively had an AC with double ammo.

The IS UAC/2 and UAC/5 are one bullet per click. The IS UAC/10 is two bullets and the IS UAC/20 is three bullets.

[Sagara Sousuke 011011001]

FupDup, on 14 February 2019 - 12:49 PM, said:

The IS UAC/2 and UAC/5 are one bullet per click. The IS UAC/10 is two bullets and the IS UAC/20 is three bullets.

Awesome, thank you for the clarification.

[Angel of Annihilation]

UACs can be double tapped to increase the rate of fire so technically a UAC/10 can do 20 damage in just about an extra second with a double tap. The disadvantages are damage spread (UACs fire in bursts of like 2-3 shells per shot vs a single slug), heat (double tapping = double heat), ammo consumption (If I need 2 tons of ammo for a AC/10, I generally need 3-4 tons for a UAC/10) , extra face time (takes longer to complete the firing cycle so you have to remain exposed longer) and weight. Both have their uses and generally speaking I don't really feel like one is better than the other, in fact I honestly wish the Clan's had a single slug AC option for certain builds and situations.

[Psykmoe]

Angel of Annihilation, on 14 February 2019 - 01:01 PM, said:

extra face time (takes longer to complete the firing cycle so you have to remain exposed longer)

While this is true in the moment you fire, I still prefer the UAC10 for reducing total facetime on mechs that need careful positioning.

As one of those clowns who plays the HBK-4H for example, the chance to pop out 20 damage and go back into cover is pretty much always worth it. The gun box is a huge target, so I'd be very uncomfortable trying to put out useful damage numbers with a regular AC10. The burst of the UAC10 gives me more damage per exposure if I'm in a situation where return fire is a risk and I can't just hang my hump out and blaze away. Especially since the 4H's ballistic cooldown quirk is so modest compared to certain Centurions and Enforcers, or the specialized quirks on the 4G.

I specifically bring up the UAC10 because it's the only Ultra that cycles slower in regular fire mode than the AC10 does. At the other sizes, there is no difference in cycle time between regular AC and UAC without double tapping.

I prefer the AC10 if I'm in a mech that can't afford the jam risk or has big cooldown quirks to make use of the AC10s already superior reload speed (Cent's, Enforcers, Grey Death, etc)

Edited by Psykmoe, 15 February 2019 - 12:32 AM.

[El Bandito]

Ever since I put 2xUAC10s on my Bushie, I completely ignore regular AC10 now. The PPFLD is not worth 1 less ton and 2x less potential damage.

[The pessimistic optimist]

El Bandito, on 15 February 2019 - 05:28 AM, said:

Ever since I put 2xUAC10s on my Bushie, I completely ignore regular AC10 now. The PPFLD is not worth 1 less ton and 2x less potential damage.

Unless there are quirks for AC10 or there crit space weight reasons you can't the UAC10 are better. UAC10 is always the better choice for the double tap.

Edited by SirSmokes, 15 February 2019 - 02:35 PM.

[Psykmoe]

El Bandito, on 15 February 2019 - 05:28 AM, said:

Ever since I put 2xUAC10s on my Bushie, I completely ignore regular AC10 now. The PPFLD is not worth 1 less ton and 2x less potential damage.

Double UAC10 Bushwacker is such a murder machine, I love it.

[Sagara Sousuke 011011001]

El Bandito, on 15 February 2019 - 05:28 AM, said:

Ever since I put 2xUAC10s on my Bushie, I completely ignore regular AC10 now. The PPFLD is not worth 1 less ton and 2x less potential damage.

I use an X2 alot. How did you fit two UAC10s on it?

I originally had twin RAC5s and then realized there wasn't as much dps, so I changed it to a UAC10 + SRM6, SRM4,SRM4.

[Bombast]

Sagara Sousuke 011011001, on 15 February 2019 - 05:24 PM, said:

I use an X2 alot. How did you fit two UAC10s on it?

Something like this, probably.

BSW-X2

I can't remember the correct ammo values at the moment.

[El Bandito]

Sagara Sousuke 011011001, on 15 February 2019 - 05:24 PM, said:

I use an X2 alot. How did you fit two UAC10s on it? I originally had twin RAC5s and then realized there wasn't as much dps, so I changed it to a UAC10 + SRM6, SRM4,SRM4.

Bombast, on 15 February 2019 - 05:33 PM, said:

Something like this, probably. BSW-X2 I can't remember the correct ammo values at the moment.

Something like that but I use 265 XL for a bit more speed.

[Psykmoe]

I use an XL 255 and and 5.5 tons of ammo for the guns, although going over 5 tons means your cockpit canopy is suicidally shaved down or your ammo bin legs are too weak, so it's not for everyone.

Bushwacker is pretty XL friendly without the missile ear hitboxes.as long as you keep the enemy in front of you.

[Mister Maf]

I've never much cared for UACs on mechs that don't have a jam chance reduction, but after all the gushing over the UAC10 in this thread I gave them ago on my King Crab that had an AC10 and LBX10. I will confess it is definitely an upgrade, even if I had to downgrade my laser shoulder from pulse lasers to standards.

[FireStoat]

I really like dual inner sphere UAC 10's on the Cataphract 3D due to its outrageous armor quirks and jam chance quirks. But it is warm - UAC 10's are not friendly with sustained fire and heat.

[Koniving]

Sagara Sousuke 011011001, on 14 February 2019 - 12:40 PM, said:

Is there a drawback that I'm missing? Arguably even if you run the UAC like an AC with a single shot per reload you are still ahead in terms of ammo capacity.

You get twice the ammo...and use twice the ammo per trigger pull.
Each bullet does 5 damage, and you fire 2 bullets per trigger pull. Sometimes your double tap actually only uses 1 shot instead of two so instead of firing 20 damage you might have done 15.

There are other subtle things.
Though its less noticeable as it is divided between two projectiles, the UAC/10 has 25% more heat per trigger pull.
It has a slower cooldown rate, so the AC/10 actually has more DPS, provided you land your shots. Ultra/10's burst fire nature however can ensure that half the damage might land on the target, while the AC/10 is all or nothing.