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Bludgeon Wtf


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#21 Tesunie

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 09:25 AM

View PostKursedVixen, on 03 March 2019 - 09:11 AM, said:

Ppc's have terrible hit reg? i wish i had known that.


I still have problems with some weapons registering hitting myself. It's not exclusive to the PPC, but they seem to somehow be more notorious for it.

For example, I can 100% reporduce a hit reg error when if I hit a target with any PPFLD (I don't know why, but ACs and even other PPC bolts) just moments before hitting with my PPC, the shot will do nothing. I've also been able to observe with 100% reproduction another hit reg error when using my Dual AC5 and Dual AC2 builds where every second bullet on the AC5 will not register and every third bullet on the AC2s seems to fail to damage. (People have told me this is an updating of damage issue and that the damage does actually apply, but every test I've done has indicated that the damage doesn't apply and just disappears.)

I've also seen weapon's fire go clean through targets to explode against the area behind the target, typically at close "I can't miss" ranges... so I am not sure what is up with that. I've also noticed when using ACs (particularly AC2s it seems) I have to lead farther to get registered hits (visually and in game) than when I'm leading a target on the outer extents of the weapons range (which is weird and I can't explain it, but that's what I experience). (This was as of my last testing of the build. I have not played the build in some time because it continues to do this to my knowledge. Even my single AC5 and AC2 combo does this.)

So when people discuss hit reg, I'm inclined to believe there may be "something" going on, even if I can't pinpoint it. Maybe it's our individual internet connections, packet loss, ping, HSR calculations going wonky, etc. I don't know. But something is afoot...

#22 B L O O D W I T C H

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 09:52 AM

View PostTesunie, on 03 March 2019 - 08:38 AM, said:

I'm in partial agreement on the OP's mech assessment.


View PostAcersecomic, on 28 February 2019 - 03:21 PM, said:

It's flat out garbage!


View PostAcersecomic, on 28 February 2019 - 03:21 PM, said:

It's so fkin bad


View PostAcersecomic, on 28 February 2019 - 03:21 PM, said:

Piece of sht



Yea.. no.

View PostAcersecomic, on 28 February 2019 - 03:21 PM, said:

I don't know what to do with it


That is his problem, for the reasons i mentioned before.

I can agree on the hardpoints, could been better but it's definitely not flat out garbage.
You want the damage from 2 lrm20? Take one ATM12 and play it right. Problem solved.
Like i said earlier, it's not a cookie cutter but it does have good movement speed, good hardpoint locations and very good heatmanagement (to the point it can effectively run quad ppcs).

And yes, ppc hitreg is kinda bad imo. It's not just ppcs but literally every weapon. It's just so much more noticeable with highdamage single flpd since you see the result of a hit right away.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 03 March 2019 - 09:58 AM.


#23 Tesunie

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 02:17 PM

View PostToha Heavy Industries, on 03 March 2019 - 09:52 AM, said:

That is his problem, for the reasons i mentioned before.


I completely agree it's not as bad as he makes it seem, but I'm also in agreement that the mech "isn't the best" (how I read his statement to mean). I agree with his pretense and bulletpoints (not enough hard points for it's tonnage, sluggish agility (which isn't the same as speed), hard to build with), but not the whole message ("it's garbage", "useless").
(Hence why I stated what and why I agreed to. The mech is functional, but certainly far from "best in class". It's certainly workable.)

Edit: It's a hard mech to work with, and he's just frustrated as he's trying to figure out what to do with it, or if he even likes the mech. If/once he finds a build he likes on it, the mech might take a shining on him. Or, it might never be a mech for him and he'll never like it. I have some mechs (even some popular ones that are meta) that I have tried and don't like at all. Not every mech is for every pilot.

Edited by Tesunie, 03 March 2019 - 02:22 PM.


#24 Davegt27

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 03:46 PM

OP I understand what you mean

I grind to skill up all my Mechs

but to get to the bottom of things this Mech suffers from the PGI disease

if you want to understand what I mean, look at all the omni pods that have no weapons but yet provide quirks
night vision that sort of works, heat vision that half way good, maps that are half way good
modes that are there but seem to be half way done

Mechs like assaults but have the fire power of a medium
if you give the WHMII C BL to some players they will do 700 DMG with 4 CERPPCs

while the rest do what they call double "D's" which means you do 99 damage or less

we have a saying in MWO

"it is what it is"

hey it was free

#25 Tesunie

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 03:57 PM

View PostDavegt27, on 03 March 2019 - 03:46 PM, said:

heat vision that half way good, maps that are half way good


Q: Where you here back when it was "Bluevisionwarrior:Online"? If not, then you would know why Thermal vision was changed to it's current state. Back in this game's history, Thermal Vision use to be in tones of blues going to reds. Everyone turned it on and played the whole game in thermal vision, because playing in any other visual mode actually placed you at a disadvantage.

So, basically, Thermal Vision is what it is because it was too powerful and needed to be balanced with the other visual modes. Trust me, you don't want the benefits of the old visual modes (even if they where more "true").

#26 MiZia

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 02:09 AM

View PostTesunie, on 03 March 2019 - 03:57 PM, said:


Q: Where you here back when it was "Bluevisionwarrior:Online"? If not, then you would know why Thermal vision was changed to it's current state. Back in this game's history, Thermal Vision use to be in tones of blues going to reds. Everyone turned it on and played the whole game in thermal vision, because playing in any other visual mode actually placed you at a disadvantage.

So, basically, Thermal Vision is what it is because it was too powerful and needed to be balanced with the other visual modes. Trust me, you don't want the benefits of the old visual modes (even if they where more "true").

Which turnes out that i play most maps in Thermal cause with other modes u cant see shiet... :P

#27 vonJerg

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 03:03 AM

Aha!!!

PGI, we need Thermal Flares, perfect counter to MiZia!!!!!!

#28 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 04:30 AM

View PostTesunie, on 03 March 2019 - 09:25 AM, said:

For example, I can 100% reporduce a hit reg error when if I hit a target with any PPFLD (I don't know why, but ACs and even other PPC bolts) just moments before hitting with my PPC, the shot will do nothing. I've also been able to observe with 100% reproduction another hit reg error when using my Dual AC5 and Dual AC2 builds where every second bullet on the AC5 will not register and every third bullet on the AC2s seems to fail to damage. (People have told me this is an updating of damage issue and that the damage does actually apply, but every test I've done has indicated that the damage doesn't apply and just disappears.)


At this point I simply have to put the usual "videos or it didn't happen" line. Shouldn't be too hard since you can 100% reproduce it, right?

#29 admiralbenbow123

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 05:20 AM

View PostvonJerg, on 04 March 2019 - 03:03 AM, said:

Aha!!!

PGI, we need Thermal Flares, perfect counter to MiZia!!!!!!


What do the thermal flares have to do with the Bludgeon? And what is MiZia?

#30 B L O O D W I T C H

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 05:54 AM

View Postadmiralbenbow123, on 04 March 2019 - 05:20 AM, said:

What do the thermal flares have to do with the Bludgeon? And what is MiZia?


You don not want to know what a MiZia is.. especially not if it's in a warhammer IIC *yikes*... ESPECIALLY NOT if it is using thermal vision *shudder*...

#31 Horseman

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 06:21 AM

View Postadmiralbenbow123, on 04 March 2019 - 05:20 AM, said:

What do the thermal flares have to do with the Bludgeon? And what is MiZia?
If you only read one post above his...
https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__6232217

#32 Tesunie

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 06:26 AM

View PostPhoenixFire55, on 04 March 2019 - 04:30 AM, said:

At this point I simply have to put the usual "videos or it didn't happen" line. Shouldn't be too hard since you can 100% reproduce it, right?


Sure... Seen as EVERYONE has the ability to record game video, know how to do it, and does that. I'll get right on that.

As mentioned, when I last tested it (which I mentioned as well that it's been some time), I could reproduce it with 100% accuracy on testing grounds and the couple of times I've been able to test it in private lobby.

I will also say, I use to wreck face in a dual AC2, dual AC5 and dual PPC King Crab back when FP first came out. Dealing the damage of an AC20 in less time than it takes an AC20 to reload just melted targets. Then, we got a patch and... then it stopped working and damage dropped by about a third of what it use to be capable of doing. And I use to have this build on my King Crab, an AC2 and 5 pairing on my Shadowhawk and my Centurion as well, and all three chassis suddenly started to deal a third of their damages. Oh, and I originally tested the build on a Banshee before the King Crabs release (as I was testing possible King Crab builds at the time) and it also wrecked face (which is why so many of my mechs started to follow suit).

I'd say, try it yourself. Go to the testing ground or even the academy. Set up a mech with an AC2 and AC5 combo and see what you experience. (You can now do this without paying for alterations to your mech, so it's free for you to try. You don't even need to own the mech to try it.) Maybe it's been fixed since I last tested it, as it has been a while.

FYI: I might also want to make mention that, at one point, people complained about how bad SRM hit reg was, and yet other people said the same thing you just said and claimed it had no issues, and then PGI released a fix to SRM hit reg... So... When it comes to hit reg issues, I do not disbelieve that there could be issues with some weapons, weapon combos, etc.

Also, I always have issues with PPCs hitting it another PPFLD weapon hits just moments before my PPC hits. It's very noticeable when 10-15 points of damage fails to apply because your AC2 round hit just beforehand... Which is why I don't even try to mix PPCs and AC2s anymore... But AC2s and Lt Gauss make a good combo and doesn't have the same issue. *Shrugs*



Edit: Just tested it on the testing grounds right now. I was unable to reproduce the hit reg issue any longer. So over the course of probably the last year or two, it appears the problem was corrected.
I have also retested on the Academy as well to double check the numbers to make sure it was applying. It is now applying as it once did.

So, looks like I might be going out with my King Crab again...

Edited by Tesunie, 04 March 2019 - 06:35 AM.


#33 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 06:45 AM

View PostTesunie, on 04 March 2019 - 06:26 AM, said:

Sure... Seen as EVERYONE has the ability to record game video, know how to do it, and does that. I'll get right on that.


Its not rocket science. It takes 15 mins to set everything up. Less time that it took you to make this post.

P.S. Oh and just fyi ... testing grounds is strictly client-side and have nothing to do with netcode and hitreg whatsoever.

#34 Tesunie

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 07:19 AM

View PostPhoenixFire55, on 04 March 2019 - 06:45 AM, said:


Its not rocket science. It takes 15 mins to set everything up. Less time that it took you to make this post.

P.S. Oh and just fyi ... testing grounds is strictly client-side and have nothing to do with netcode and hitreg whatsoever.


I use to be able to reproduce it ON the testing grounds at that time. If I could no longer reproduce it there, I think it's been fixed then, but it might not be in live matches still. But I've also massively upgraded my computer. So it could have been any number of possible issues (which i did mention in the original remark). But, then again, go ahead and claim the old saying of "video or it didn't happen". I mean, it's not like no one else has mentioned possible hit reg issues... at all... or even recorded it before. (Once saw a video, no I'm not going to try and look it up, as it WILL take more time to do so than it does to make this post, where an AC20 bullet visually hit a target and did... nothing.)

Did you also know that the Jenner use to have a hole in it's hit boxes? Before the re-scaling, it use to have a hole in each shoulder under the arms. If you destroyed the arms and then shot the tube that was "the shoulder" on the inside part of it, no damage registered. Corrected now with no notification in any patch as I can no longer reproduce it. (It wasn't a big deal, as you rarely got hit there anyway.)

Also, occasionally with less than a 10% chance ( I don't recall the number PGI released, but it was low), AC bullets use to go through hit boxes to hit the other side of the mech. (AKA: Shots to the front might phase through the hitboxes and destroy the back instead.) It's been fixed, though people still claim to see it happen from time to time (and it very well might).

(S)SRMs also use to deal 5+ damage per missile at one point in open beta.

Just because you don't experience it or there isn't video evidence doesn't mean that it "might" be happening or use to happen. My original post only mentioned that I've seen those things happen (though I should have specified "use to" rather than making it sounds current without more recent testing). Then again, I'm not testing it live at the moment (or I'm not hitting that "special timing" like I use to be able to, who knows).

Also, it wouldn't be a matter of setting up the video recording options (which still would take time for something I don't overly care about), but would also require potentially hours of footage, editing the video data, downloading it to a host server (youtube maybe), finding the hours to play to see if I can reproduce it... and not everything I use to be able to produce as a problem is still there in the game and may have been fixed without my knowledge. So "Video or it didn't happen" isn't always an option... Especially if I'm referring to issues from the past (like, for example, the bellybutton hole in the Spider's hot boxes, which apparently made the mech extremely durable despite the small size of the hole).

#35 admiralbenbow123

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 08:26 AM

View PostHorseman, on 04 March 2019 - 06:21 AM, said:

If you only read one post above his...
https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__6232217


Uh, okay.

#36 justcallme A S H

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 11:00 AM

View PostAcersecomic, on 01 March 2019 - 11:09 AM, said:

So much wrong with the mech. Slow, slugish, lack or armor, lack of hardpoints... And a single ATM is not really worth its 7 tons because a single AMS negates its damage very well.


Posted Image

80T with a XL350 and DHS out the date...

Nothing wrong with it. It just takes a little more intellect to pilot to be honest. It's not just a boated wonder.

#37 Acersecomic

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 11:07 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 04 March 2019 - 11:00 AM, said:


Posted Image

80T with a XL350 and DHS out the date...

Nothing wrong with it. It just takes a little more intellect to pilot to be honest. It's not just a boated wonder.


It's incredible how hard it is for you to not sound like a massive *** every time you open your mouth.
Is there a block button on this forum? Cuzz you're the only person I'd reallyyyyy like to make shut up.

Edited by Acersecomic, 04 March 2019 - 11:08 AM.


#38 Tesunie

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 11:52 AM

View PostAcersecomic, on 04 March 2019 - 11:07 AM, said:


It's incredible how hard it is for you to not sound like a massive *** every time you open your mouth.
Is there a block button on this forum? Cuzz you're the only person I'd reallyyyyy like to make shut up.


He can't help but make everyone else feel bad and try to make himself sound great. He does it all over the forums. I may respect his advise, but his personality is something else.

You can in fact block him by placing him on your ignore list. When you do so, his posts will come up as almost like a spoiler, where you can choose to view each individual post.

Go to your "Forum Profile". To do this, click your "Profile" then the subtab of "Forum Profile". Then, "Edit My Profile". You will see a side tab from there that you can manage your ignore list. Copy the person's name you wish to ignore, and then paste it in and save.

A bit of a chore to do... but it can be done. Just a lot of menus to work through.

#39 Princeps Ibram Cain

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 12:04 PM

I like to use them as mobile targets, until they overheat, then they turn in static targets.

#40 panzer1b

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 11:14 AM

We all know its trash, and to be honest the ONLY thing ive been able to make work on it is the 4 LPL build. If you want PPCs the warhawk is still better as quirks and both have low/wide mounts but warhawk at least lets you compensate for that with everything being arm mounted (fire to the right or left of where you want to hit when firing at max range makes it more reliable). 4 LPLs gives you range which is ESSENTIAL for this mech as its the only way to mitigate damage (ballistics will spread everywhere if you are moving at that range, and nothing short of dedicated LPL/ERLL/GR will really do that much to you in return when you park at 600-700m).

Now if only 1 ATM launcher didnt get annihilated by AMS, it might have been decent with teh ATM12, 2LPL, 3ERML build, but as it stands, that is useless, and i can run more energy (including a totally viable 2 LPL 4 ERML build) on a bloody hellbringer with ECM and better agility. It cant do energy, it cant do missiles, and it cant even do a combo since a single missile hardpoint is utterly worthless right now given but 1 AMS shuts it down (and a LRM-20 in of itself is a waste of tonnage/space).

Ill keep it for the day it gets some quirks/agility, but right now, its been officially shelved permanently in favor of better mechs, all of which can walk over it in a heartbeat. Only thing the paperhammer is good for is farming solo kills by CT coring them out on the enemy team without any difficulty regardless of the mech im in.

Edited by panzer1b, 09 March 2019 - 11:27 AM.






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