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Your Opinion: What Is Better Fast Assault Or Heavy Armed Slow Assie?


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#1 D VA

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 04:47 AM

So what you dear MekWarriors think?

Edited by D VA, 13 March 2019 - 04:48 AM.


#2 RickySpanish

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 04:53 AM

Kph in the 60s or you need amazing positional awareness to stay ahead of the Nascar.

#3 Khobai

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 05:20 AM

For IS the answer is slow assaults. because fast assaults arnt a viable option for IS. Although admittedly XL is less penalizing on IS assaults now since LFE is almost as bad. But that engine change was so terrible PGI really needs to revert it.

For clans the answer is fast assaults. because theyre objectively better. Madcat MK2 for example. the Kodiak3 is also still decent and way better than the abysmally slow Dire Wolf.

Edited by Khobai, 13 March 2019 - 05:24 AM.


#4 D VA

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 05:22 AM

View PostRickySpanish, on 13 March 2019 - 04:53 AM, said:

Kph in the 60s or you need amazing positional awareness to stay ahead of the Nascar.

Some heavy fitted platforms actually out-ROF few enemy heavies. And on other side... Wubmaster on XL's can be easily obliterated just having off his side torso)

#5 D VA

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 05:25 AM

View PostKhobai, on 13 March 2019 - 05:20 AM, said:

For IS the answer is slow assaults. because fast assaults arnt a viable option for IS.

For clans the answer is fast assaults. because theyre objectively better. Madcat MK2 for example. the Kodiak3 is also still decent and way better than the abysmally slow Dire Wolf.

In some part I agree with you Khobai but... there is still but... we don't have DVS and PLG for IS side with their engine cap up to 400. And 100 tonner moving on 66-68 kmph is kind a nasty thing with all these "new" IS tools on board. Atm example is Banshee, it's awesome in both, heavy armed, and fast on energy based)))

#6 El Bandito

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 05:29 AM

All depends on the level of support you receive from your teammates.

Also you need to be good enough pilot, with situational awareness and drop calling experience.

#7 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 06:06 AM

You can succeed with both, but slow assaults require more situational awareness to make sure you don't get left behind. Anni, Fafnir, and Dire Wolf are all extremely punishing but you have to plan ahead and not let yourself get behind.

#8 Angel of Annihilation

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 08:17 AM

View PostRickySpanish, on 13 March 2019 - 04:53 AM, said:

Kph in the 60s or you need amazing positional awareness to stay ahead of the Nascar.


I tend to agree. Anything below 60 kph and your going to have quite a few matches were your not going to be able to keep up with your teams movements and end up getting cut off and killed without support. It won't happen always but enough that you will probably get frustrated with it. At 60 kph generally speaking you can keep with the movement well enough that you don't have this issue very often, at least not enough to get frustrated by it so I always try for at least 60 kph out of my Assaults when I can.

#9 MechaBattler

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 09:49 AM

It depends on what mode you're playing. If it's solo queue or even group queue with only a few people. Then fast assault is more versatile. When you're practically on your own, you need to be able to position and reposition as the situation warps out of control, as pug matches tend to. But if you're in a coordinated large group you're less likely to be left behind and you can concentrate all that firepower better.

#10 Daurock

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 10:14 AM

My building practices are essentially as follows -

No IS Assaults with an engine larger than an LFE325. If you need an LFE bigger than that for your desired speed, you should be riding a heavy with a 280-300 sized engine instead. You'll get a smaller, and most likely more agile mech that carries just as much weaponry as the assault.

For Clan Assaults (and IS assaults that decide to run XL) That limit is increased to about 350-360. Again, once you stick in the bigger engines, you find yourself matched in firepower by mechs 20 tons lighter than you that can run the same speed as you. all you have left is a bit of armor, but your size and agility are likely lacking compared to that heavy.

I guess for me, that makes the practical limit for an IS assault about 55, and (c)XL mechs maybe 65.

Edited by Daurock, 13 March 2019 - 10:21 AM.


#11 Khobai

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 01:35 PM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 13 March 2019 - 06:06 AM, said:

You can succeed with both, but slow assaults require more situational awareness to make sure you don't get left behind. Anni, Fafnir, and Dire Wolf are all extremely punishing but you have to plan ahead and not let yourself get behind.


the thing is why play a direwolf when you can just play a kodiak? the kodiak is objectively better than the direwolf. because speed is life in MWO. And the direwolf's structure quirks arnt good enough to offset its slow speed.

the fact you can take endo (and sometimes ferro too) on the kodiak lets you take a way bigger engine (an option not even available to the dire wolf) while still having the same amount of firepower.

the issue with the direwolf is that omnimechs are just plain bad compared to battlemechs. omnimechs dont have enough going for them to offset the locked equipment.

theres just no reason to subject yourself to playing a suboptimized slow assault omnimech when you can play an optimized fast assault battlemech with the same level of firepower, all made possible by endo/ferro.

so at the very least the take away from this is that omnimechs like the direwolf, that dont get endo/ferro, need buffs. the direwolf should be on par with the annihilator for scariness factor and it just isnt because it lacks the survivability of the annihilator. buffing the direwolf's survivability would also make it more of an equivalent choice between taking the kodiak for mobility or the direwolf for survivability.

Edited by Khobai, 13 March 2019 - 01:47 PM.


#12 Kubernetes

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 01:41 PM

They both work. I feel like these differing types shouldn't even be in the same weight class. Stuff like Victors, Gargies, Whammy IICs move and play like super-heavies, whereas Annis and Dires are like mobile turrets. Not sure that either style is better.

#13 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 01:59 PM

View PostKhobai, on 13 March 2019 - 01:35 PM, said:


the thing is why play a direwolf when you can just play a kodiak? the kodiak is objectively better than the direwolf. because speed is life in MWO. And the direwolf's structure quirks arnt good enough to offset its slow speed.

the fact you can take endo (and sometimes ferro too) on the kodiak lets you take a way bigger engine (an option not even available to the dire wolf) while still having the same amount of firepower.

the issue with the direwolf is that omnimechs are just plain bad compared to battlemechs. omnimechs dont have enough going for them to offset the locked equipment.

theres just no reason to subject yourself to playing a suboptimized slow assault omnimech when you can play an optimized fast assault battlemech with the same level of firepower, all made possible by endo/ferro.

so at the very least the take away from this is that omnimechs like the direwolf, that dont get endo/ferro, need buffs. the direwolf should be on par with the annihilator for scariness factor and it just isnt because it lacks the survivability of the annihilator. buffing the direwolf's survivability would make it more of a choice to take the kodiak for mobility or the direwolf for survivability.


Well YMMV, but I have found the Dire has better frontal hit boxes than the Kodiak which seems a little easier to pick apart from the front.

Also, KDK can't do the 2 Gauss 2 ERLL 6 ERML Build. Of course, it could do the 2 UAC10, UAC5, 2 ER PPC build I have been running on my DWF-B... Either at 56 kph with 21 DHS or 61 kph with 19 DHS. My Dire is 22 DHS at 48.6. So true, you could get things moving a little bit faster with the same build and more or less the same heat efficiency. That doesn't make the Dire bad though, just slightly less optimized. I mean 56 to 49 KPH isn't THAT big of a difference, you are still slow AF.

#14 FupDup

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 04:21 PM

View PostKhobai, on 13 March 2019 - 05:20 AM, said:

For IS the answer is slow assaults. because fast assaults arnt a viable option for IS. Although admittedly XL is less penalizing on IS assaults now since LFE is almost as bad. But that engine change was so terrible PGI really needs to revert it.

For clans the answer is fast assaults. because theyre objectively better. Madcat MK2 for example. the Kodiak3 is also still decent and way better than the abysmally slow Dire Wolf.

The Charger, Zeus, and Victor can reach decent speeds while keeping reasonable punch.

Anyways to answer the OP's question it's obvious that gunboat assaults with maximum firepower are more meta than fast "cavalry" assaults, but I prefer the latter because they're more adaptable to rapidly changing pug queue chaos. Having agility is also just inherently more enjoyable than not having agility.

Note that I count the MCII under the gunboat category because of its high firepower and poor agility, despite its ability to reach decently high running speeds. Cavalry assaults must have high speed and high agility to qualify.

Edited by FupDup, 13 March 2019 - 04:30 PM.


#15 Wil McCullough

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 06:29 PM

All assaults are slow. Fortunately, slow assaults can always keep up by simply holding down "w" at the start and moving towards bravo lance. Most assault pilots who moan that they get left behind alone cause their problem themselves by window licking at the start. To get beyond 500m away from your team and out of support range, it takes like 3 minutes of continuously walking in the same direction as your heavies which go ~70 kph. That's as long as an entire match.

If they'd just stop going on scenic trips around the map and stay in their cockpits instead of getting out to pick flowers (or whatever it is they do when they randomly stop moving), they won't get stuck alone against rampaging light mechs.

To answer your question, it doesn't matter what you pick. At least not with the criteria you've chosen. Other than the gargles, assaults are all thiccboi gunboats. The only flavors they come in are weapon superiority (e.g. dire and mcii) or good damage traders ( e.g. kc and madiic)

#16 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 06:54 PM

Doesn't matter really as others have pointed out. The trick is to never stay still. Always be in motion and play with one eye on the minimap, although that final tip is applicable to almost every type of mech.

#17 Khobai

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 09:06 PM

View PostFupDup, on 13 March 2019 - 04:21 PM, said:

The Charger, Zeus, and Victor can reach decent speeds while keeping reasonable punch.


But theyre all crappy assaults exactly because of their propensity towards oversized engines. Youre better off just playing a heavy instead of one of those. The Charger, Zeus, Victors all fall in a grey area between being bad assaults and worse heavies. They give up everything thats good about being an assault in order to be more like a heavy. And theyre still not as good as heavies.

Theres no point in playing a fast assault if it means compromising the role of an assault. If you cant carry the firepower that an assault needs to carry then its not really an assault anymore. Its just some weird frankenmech that fails at being both an assault and a heavy, and has none of the strengths of both, and all of the weaknesses.

Only clans have light enough weapons and engines to make a real fast assault. That is an assault that goes 60kph and still has the firepower an assault should have. And were not just talking about high alpha damage were talking about sustainability too and you need the heavy ballistic weapons for that. Its being able to field lots of heat-efficient ballistic firepower that seperates true assaults from heavies.

The only true assaults on the IS side are slow mechs like the Fafnir, Annihilator, etc... Because in order for IS assaults to carry the requisite amount of ballistic firepower they have to lower their engine ratings.

View PostWil McCullough, on 13 March 2019 - 06:29 PM, said:

All assaults are slow


Yeah but theres a difference between being slow and being TOO SLOW.

60kph is slow but its still fast enough to keep up with your team. 48kph is TOO SLOW and youre at risk of straight up dying on some maps like mining collective if fast mechs push your starting position.

The problem is for an IS assault to go 60kph it has to give up everything that makes an assault an assault. Instead of thinking its okay for IS assaults to remove their assault-level firepower in order to go 60kph, people should be asking for PGI to fix their damn maps so going 48kph isnt as punitive. IS assaults shouldnt be overpunished for being slow. Because in order for them to do their job properly they have no choice but to be slow.

Edited by Khobai, 13 March 2019 - 09:31 PM.


#18 Potatomasher69

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 09:32 PM

I'd honestly like to see a recent thread that tries to come to an agreement on what the role of an assault is.

#19 Khobai

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 09:34 PM

View PostPotatomasher69, on 13 March 2019 - 09:32 PM, said:

I'd honestly like to see a recent thread that tries to come to an agreement on what the role of an assault is.


the role of an assault is firepower. specifically sustainable firepower. because thats the only thing assaults can do better than anything else.

they dont do survivability better (theyre huge, slow, have bad agility, and once they commit to a fight they typically dont have the option to disengage). they certainly dont do mobility better either. so all they really have is their firepower.

so any assault that compromises its firepower to increase its mobility is no longer a true assault. its just giving up what assaults are supposed to be good at in order to be worse at what heavies are better at. the whole design philosophy of IS fast assaults makes no sense. just play an IS heavy instead, because its better at the same thing.

Edited by Khobai, 13 March 2019 - 09:46 PM.


#20 Kubernetes

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 09:45 PM

Hey the Victor 9a1 is one of the best assaults in the game.





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