20 replies to this topic

[rook]

Are flamers still limited to 90% heat to a mech?

If so, are there any non-obvious actions I can do that would cause me to overheat? Specifically, would using a cool-shot allow me to overheat?

[KhanBhacKeD]

1rst question answer is yes.

For the 2nd it's no. Only action making you heating up is going to punish you. If you coolshot, you can even fire some weapons sometimes. (but better to wait to use it when the flamer user is hot)

[ZaRyume Mukeiyu]

KhanBhacKeD, on 03 April 2019 - 09:46 PM, said:

(but better to wait to use it when the flamer user is hot)

Sometimes even that is not an option if it's an MG Boat with Flamers or, heaven forbid, a cheeky Sleipnir rocking dual Heavy Gauss with Flamers. That dude can punch holes in your poor Mech and still flame you into next week. Only thing left at that point is pray that your teammates are competent enough to kill him and avenge your roasted corpse.

[KhanBhacKeD]

Even with mg and or hgr, with 2-3 flamer after 10-15 seconds you start to heat up yourself.

[ZaRyume Mukeiyu]

Yeah, 15 seconds without any Cool Run nodes. That's almost 3 freebie shots racking up 150 pinpoint damage plus another shot when not using the Flamers anymore and you're Mech is desperately trying to dump that heat off. A very agonizing death. Even more so if he has a friend with him and you don't.

As for the MG boat, yes it would be pointless if he is on you by himself. Imagine if he had 2 other Light friends with him. 15 seconds is plenty of time for all three of them to kill you, all the while your bar is sitting at 90% the whole time.

That's the thing with the rare Flamer mains: they're clever, sneaky serial killers. And they're usually not alone on the action.

[Horseman]

rook, on 03 April 2019 - 08:48 PM, said:

If so, are there any non-obvious actions I can do that would cause me to overheat?

Moving generates heat. A lot of people fail to remember that.

[Mechwarrior 37]

Flamers heh heh

[Mechwarrior 37]

Pick your target carefully. Leave the Night Gyr alone!

Look for laser and LRM boats.

[Mechwarrior 37]

There are a lot of questions that i would like the answer to.

Does the size of a mech to be flamed count? Tonnage? The amount of heaksinks? The heat management?

How much heat does one flamer do? And 2 and 3 and 4 of them. A real flamer mech has 4 flamers. If you notice, they cut them off at 4. I used to carry 6 of them.

I think a flamer mech should be able to take a enemy mech to 120% heat but I get it.

[Captain Stiffy]

anyone?

[Horseman]

https://mwomercs.com.../list/full.json

"1007": {
 
		"name": "Flamer",
		"category": "weapon",
		"factions": {
			"Clan": false,
			"InnerSphere": true
		},
		"stats": {
			"Health": 10,
			"slots": 1,
			"type": "Energy",
			"projectileclass": "",
			"numFiring": 1,
			"damage": 0.1,
			"heatdamage": 4.5,
			"heatpenalty": 9,
			"minheatpenaltylevel": 5,
			"impulse": 0,
			"heat": 1,
			"cooldown": 0,
			"ammoType": "",
			"ammoPerShot": 0,
			"effectscale": 13,
			"tons": 1,
			"duration": -1,
			"lifetime": 1,
			"speed": 100,
			"volleydelay": 0.25,
			"maxheight": 0,
			"heatinctime": 4.75,
			"trgheatinctime": 3,
			"RampDownDelay": 5,
			"maxDepth": 10,
			"critDamMult": 1.1,
			"critChanceIncrease": "0.14,0.08,0.03",
			"MinReactivationTime": 0.1
		},
		"ranges": [
			{
				"start": "0",
				"damageModifier": "1.0",
				"interpolationToNextRange": "linear"
			},
			{
				"start": "90.0",
				"damageModifier": "1.0",
				"interpolationToNextRange": "linear"
			}
		],
		"inheritfrom": null,
		"cost": null
	},
 
	"1210": {
		"name": "ClanFlamer",
		"category": "weapon",
		"factions": {
			"Clan": true,
			"InnerSphere": false
		},
		"stats": {
			"Health": 5,
			"slots": 1,
			"type": "Energy",
			"projectileclass": "",
			"numFiring": 1,
			"damage": 0.1,
			"heatdamage": 4.5,
			"heatpenalty": 9,
			"minheatpenaltylevel": 5,
			"impulse": 0,
			"heat": 1,
			"cooldown": 0,
			"ammoType": "",
			"ammoPerShot": 0,
			"effectscale": 13,
			"tons": 0.5,
			"duration": -1,
			"lifetime": 1,
			"speed": 100,
			"volleydelay": 0.25,
			"maxheight": 0,
			"heatinctime": 4.75,
			"trgheatinctime": 3,
			"RampDownDelay": 5,
			"maxDepth": 10,
			"critDamMult": 1.1,
			"critChanceIncrease": "0.14,0.08,0.03",
			"MinReactivationTime": 0.1
		},
		"ranges": [
			{
				"start": "0",
				"damageModifier": "1.0",
				"interpolationToNextRange": "linear"
			},
			{
				"start": "90.0",
				"damageModifier": "1.0",
				"interpolationToNextRange": "linear"
			}
		],
		"inheritfrom": null,
		"cost": null
	},

I believe "HeatDamage" is what you're looking for. The size of the mech doesn't count as far as I know, although its' heat capacity and heat dissipation do.

Edited by Horseman, 16 February 2020 - 02:31 AM.

[Captain Stiffy]

So I'm going to go with, flamers are fun, but two things;

1) If you have done 50% of their heat as flamer damage and they die from overheating (they override) that should be your kill.
2) Heat damage done to enemies should count as damage for score

[SockSlayer]

996 damage? off just flamers or a combo @Mechwarrior_37
"minheatpenaltylevel": 5,
...I assume this is the part where if you have more than 5 flamers you get a heat penality...
I still don't get why that needed to be added...

Here is how when they modified the flamer, they actually broke it.

Original Flamer at the beginning: Actually looked like flames not a blowtorch, 0.7 damage, boatable
can have as many as you want without an instant overheat, no stupid exponential heat generation,
or that cool down. The only issue it had was that it rarely overheated an enemy mech.

Now: Will overheat an enemy mech with less issue,
but does that really matter since enemy mech heat is capped at 90%? 0.1 damage, Exponential heat generation, and heat penalty if more than 4 flamers...

The way the heat penalty works is probably the most broke
as just one more flamer than 4 means you can literally click the mouse 5ish
times in rapid succession to overheat your mech,
whereas you can click 100 times with 4 and not overheat until the exponential heat generation starts.

The changes they made to the flamer is just extra code slowing the game down.
WOULD LOVE THE ORIGINAL FLAMERS BACK!!! With the only difference would be to change heat damage from 4.5 to 1 so it doesn't overheat enemy too quick.

Edited by SockSlayer, 17 February 2020 - 04:34 PM.

[Captain Stiffy]

SockSlayer, on 17 February 2020 - 04:31 PM, said:

996 damage? off just flamers or a combo @Mechwarrior_37
"minheatpenaltylevel": 5,
...I assume this is the part where if you have more than 5 flamers you get a heat penality...
I still don't get why that needed to be added...

Here is how when they modified the flamer, they actually broke it.

Original Flamer at the beginning: Actually looked like flames not a blowtorch, 0.7 damage, boatable
can have as many as you want without an instant overheat, no stupid exponential heat generation,
or that cool down. The only issue it had was that it rarely overheated an enemy mech.

Now: Will overheat an enemy mech with less issue,
but does that really matter since enemy mech heat is capped at 90%? 0.1 damage, Exponential heat generation, and heat penalty if more than 4 flamers...

The way the heat penalty works is probably the most broke
as just one more flamer than 4 means you can literally click the mouse 5ish
times in rapid succession to overheat your mech,
whereas you can click 100 times with 4 and not overheat until the exponential heat generation starts.

The changes they made to the flamer is just extra code slowing the game down.
WOULD LOVE THE ORIGINAL FLAMERS BACK!!! With the only difference would be to change heat damage from 4.5 to 1 so it doesn't overheat enemy too quick.

I am inclined to agree that the old flamers were better, they just did too much heat damage for this broken bastardization of BT.

...that aside...

Flamers could have been the meta solution the whole time. Boat everything, fine, but a light with 2 flamers is going to ruin your day if you aren't heat balanced.

I DO enjoy the single flamer on my quad LB10X builds, but please tell me how it is possible for a SINGLE FLAMER to overheat that mech when all you fire is the flamer? HOW IS IT EVER POSSIBLE?

The ghost heat ******** was always just a crutch that allowed them to force gameplay that they thought would drive sales. I say "WAS" because this game is already dead as a doornail, 2 out of 3 modes are unplayable because not enough people queue.

I was away for like what a year? 18 months? Solaris came and by the time I personally queued, nobody was playing anymore if they ever were. WHO WAS ASKING FOR SOLARIS? I don't get it. Oh well, enough ranting for this thread.

Edited by Captain Stiffy, 03 March 2020 - 12:28 PM.

[SockSlayer]

lol, I actually had quit for awhile after my last post, came back to try again with a faster computer...
Notes:
1. I still hold the original flamers were kind of better.
2. At this point, flamers do not need a penalty for more than 4 flamers, they do nearly no damage at all anyhow and overheating an enemy mech only happens on those who don't manage their heat well, which means the mech is usually a hot design mess anyway.
3. The original lore flamer range is same as small laser...

Yet another suggestion here: This one takes a different approach, instead of getting rid of the current flamer stats, make the 2 flamer ramp down durations into:

The First One: Removes exponential heat generation.
The Second One: Lore Range of flamer 150m.

[martian]

SockSlayer, on 20 April 2021 - 04:01 PM, said:

lol, I actually had quit for awhile after my last post, came back to try again with a faster computer...
Notes:
1. I still hold the original flamers were kind of better.
2. At this point, flamers do not need a penalty for more than 4 flamers, they do nearly no damage at all anyhow and overheating an enemy mech only happens on those who don't manage their heat well, which means the mech is usually a hot design mess anyway.
3. The original lore flamer range is same as small laser...

Yet another suggestion here: This one takes a different approach, instead of getting rid of the current flamer stats, make the 2 flamer ramp down durations into:

The First One: Removes exponential heat generation.
The Second One: Lore Range of flamer 150m.

Welcome back!

You should post your suggestions here: Feature Suggestions

[The Basilisk]

As a primarily BATTLETECH fan I want to offer my view on things.
First...mechflamers are not flamethrowers in our conventional sense but rather non focused plasmatorches using superheated and compressed plasma from a units fusion engins to cause incendentiary effects. Canon wise Mechflamers can be operated in two modes.
Incendiary and damage focused (like a blowtorch or a bunsenbrenner you can either diffuse or focus the heat)

MGs and Flamers as Weapon systems are canonwise actualy not anti Mech weapons and would do around 0.4 dps@ 90m if PGI had them translated correctly from BT TT. (double dmg and double armor are already accounted for in this translation normaly it would be 0.2 dps @ 90m for flamers)

So...that beeing said MGs and Flamers are already as far from any BATTLETECH related canon as possible without getting completely hillarious.
Yes there are fireweapons like the fluidcannons, plasmarifles and actualy damaging smaler slugthrowers in canon like the MagShot or TankRifles but they aren't ingame so far.

Do I think such weapons are usefull or necessary for the game?
Smal size short range projectile wpns ... maybe.
More support weapons that take up weight but do not do damage ?
No.
Why ?
12 ppl in a match
every one not doing primarily Damage is simply a liability to the respective team.

[Koniving]

Mechwarrior 37, on 28 April 2019 - 01:11 PM, said:

Pick your target carefully. Leave the Night Gyr alone!

There's also the Battlemaster hero to look out for, it has 50% reduction to environmental/flamer heat.

[SockSlayer]

Not exactly expecting flamers to do damage as that isn't what they are mainly for, the really stupid part is not so much the exponential heat generation as it makes sense your mech would heat up using flamers, its when you tap the button once with 10 flamers and instantly overheat...that just would not happen. The extra heat penalty past 4 flamers really wasn't even needed.

Edited by SockSlayer, 27 April 2021 - 07:48 PM.

[The Basilisk]

SockSlayer, on 27 April 2021 - 07:40 PM, said:

Not exactly expecting flamers to do damage as that isn't what they are mainly for, the really stupid part is not so much the exponential heat generation as it makes sense your mech would heat up using flamers, its when you tap the button once with 10 flamers and instantly overheat...that just would not happen. The extra heat penalty past 4 flamers really wasn't even needed.

Look at it as a disciplinary measure to clarify a plain "you are useless, it does not work, mount real weapons" statement for trolls that may think all flamer mechs could somehow still do dmg when you boat them en mass to exploit the no heat chargeup mechanic.

There are many realy realy stupid things you could do with the mechlab when there weren't some arbitary measures to prevent ppl from doing them.
Look at the dire star for example or look at the 5x RAC 5 Annihilator...or imagine a 12 or 15 HML Gladiator...or even a 15 ERSLas Glad....think of a 6 HLLas Supernova....
The list goes on for some time