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Min Range Indicator


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#1 Nesutizale

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 05:58 AM

Can we have a small change to the weapon informations please?
I would like to add Min-Range to it, cause new players might not now and even I was forgetting what the current LRM min range was because I use them so rarely.
Also remove all the numbers that are not needed from the Range indicator at the bottom.
I mean why have 22 damage indicator on an LRM20 if it will never do more then 20 damage?

Here is a quick mockup what I mean with changes in red.

https://imgur.com/AUYGb3L

#2 ObeyTheLion

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 07:00 AM

You don't need a minimum range indicator.

When you look at your weapon groups, they appear in three different lightnings:

Green: Target is in Optimal range, weapon will deal maxium damage.

Yellow: Target is outside Optimal range, but is inside Maxium range. Weapon will deal reduced damage

Black or Blank: Target is either outside Maximum range or is inside minium range: Weapon will deal no dam
age

Or, you can go to https://mech.nav-alpha.com/ , click "Archive" Then "Beginner's guide".
It will explain the very basics that the fresh new player has to know about the game mechanics.

Besides, if you equip a weapon system that has a minium range, you can go into the testing grounds any time to see where the minimum range of said weapon system is.

But otherwise, i do approve of this change. It could help new players a lot.

o7

Edited by ObeyTheLion, 19 April 2019 - 07:08 AM.


#3 Nesutizale

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 08:54 AM

Targeting groups and lights...when I started I first of didn't even notice these and it took quite some time for me to get used to it.

As for the website...I play this game for quite some time and I don't know that website, so for new guys thats hardly helpfull.

Testinggrounds is most likely where new players would find out...or when the take an LRM boat to QP and get their *** handed to them because they could do **** against the Flea or Piranha thats humping their legs.

So yes this is mostly a beginner thing. I would still like it for giveing a complete overview of a weapon system. Its strange that you get so much information but that one, a very importend one, is missing. Except for the graph but that thing is so unpresice that you still would have to guess the values.

#4 Monkey Lover

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 12:03 PM

How about the weapons just don't fire and make some sound effect, if you're inside the min range.

#5 Nesutizale

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 03:38 PM

Weapons are fine as they are. When people don't look at the indicators during combat its their problem, thats fine.

I just want the information of what the range is in the mechlab for new players or people like me who are comming back to the game and want a quick, easy accessable look at the exact ranges and the mechlab is the place that should be displayed.

#6 TheCaptainJZ

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 04:13 PM

The mechlab absolutely should list the minimum range. That chart is useless unless the min range tick is marked at least. Really should have been there from the beginning.

#7 Alienized

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 05:37 PM

but you got a pretty good range-diagramm to each weapon... if a weapon has minimum range you can clearly see the range starts to rise after 0m. how is that not enuff?

#8 Kroete

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 12:41 AM

View PostAlienized, on 19 April 2019 - 05:37 PM, said:

but you got a pretty good range-diagramm to each weapon... if a weapon has minimum range you can clearly see the range starts to rise after 0m. how is that not enuff?

A good diagramm would have a scale.
Without a scale, a diagramm is just a fancy line without much meaning.

Edited by Kroete, 20 April 2019 - 12:41 AM.


#9 Nesutizale

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 01:34 AM

View PostAlienized, on 19 April 2019 - 05:37 PM, said:

but you got a pretty good range-diagramm to each weapon... if a weapon has minimum range you can clearly see the range starts to rise after 0m. how is that not enuff?


Lets take the LRM I posted at the beginning. The graph shows me that the minimal range is somewhere between 0 and 375m. Visualy it looks like its somewhere in the middle, that would be 187,5m but IIRC that is also not the right number.
Also on the damage scale it say 22 damage but the line is just below that. Why not make the marking a bit lower and let it say 20. That would be correct.

Also just noticed, shouldn't damage for missiles be on a per missile base? If I would know nothing about Battletech I would assume that I am allways doing 20 damage with my LRM20, wouldn't I ?

#10 Alienized

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 03:40 AM

Posted Image

#11 FireDog

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 06:56 AM

Not having the min range mark just looks like lazy design to me. Anything for the newbies would be good for the game.

Edited by FireDog, 20 April 2019 - 07:05 AM.


#12 blackcatf

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 01:46 PM

I see a lot of people answering this question by saying "Go look on the testing ground," "See how color changes when you put your crosshairs on a target," "Check the MechDB stats," or whatever, but I think the OP's point and suggestion is valid and good. I'd like to not have to go look at any of those other places to see what the default minimum range of a weapon is while building a 'mech in the client's 'mech lab. I'd also like for it to automatically update how that minimum range is affected by any quirks or skills I have on the 'mech I'm currently working. I.e., show me that my max range on that LRM rack is now +90m, but also show me that that same 10% increase is causing minimum range to be +18m, so I now have to make sure my LRM targets are outside 200m (198), not 180m.

I get that there are other ways of checking min. range available, but why not just have it right there with all the other weapon data?

#13 Nightbird

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 02:04 PM

The damage graph you see when you click on a weapon in the mechlab already shows the minimum range, optimal range, and max range. Skills and quirks don't affect minimum range.

#14 Maddermax

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 02:24 PM

View PostNightbird, on 22 April 2019 - 02:04 PM, said:

The damage graph you see when you click on a weapon in the mechlab already shows the minimum range, optimal range, and max range. Skills and quirks don't affect minimum range.


It doesn’t show the minimum range. It shows the approximate minimum, if you know what you’re looking for, and estimate a bit because it doesn’t indicate it exactly. It’s useless for newbies wondering why their LRMs/PPCs aren’t working and cursing hit-reg.

Just list the minimum range at the top under max range, it isn’t hard, and it’s not like it will hurt experienced players to see it - new players shouldn’t have to use google to get a hard stat that has a lot of effect on the game.

Edited by Maddermax, 22 April 2019 - 02:25 PM.


#15 Athom83

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 02:31 PM

View PostMaddermax, on 22 April 2019 - 02:24 PM, said:

It doesn’t show the minimum range. It shows the approximate minimum, if you know what you’re looking for, and estimate a bit because it doesn’t indicate it exactly. It’s useless for newbies wondering why their LRMs/PPCs aren’t working and cursing hit-reg.

Just list the minimum range at the top under max range, it isn’t hard, and it’s not like it will hurt experienced players to see it - new players shouldn’t have to use google to get a hard stat that has a lot of effect on the game.

I mean, the stated min range is exact. The problem is that its min range from the weapon while not taking into account the +/- distance between the cockpit (where the range measurement begins) and where you actually hit on the enemy (distance indicator is to the center of the mech instead of the nearest part).

#16 Talorien

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 06:14 AM

+100

Not providing the minimum range in the Mechlab stats is just poor design.

The game originally dealt handled this with a text description 'PPCs have a 90m minimum range', but this was randomly excluded with subsequent weapons like ATMs.

i.e. By not being systematic, the game info is random and for new players who can easily not know RLs have a min. range.

Even if the weapon graph actually specified the minimum range figure (which it doesn't), this wouldn't be an adequate replacement for having it clearly stated in the stat block.

#17 Khobai

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 09:31 AM

they should just remove zero damage deadzones on all weapons

its not a fun game mechanic

replace it with linear damage reduction down to a minimum of 50% damage.

no weapon should ever do 0 damage at short range.

Edited by Khobai, 23 April 2019 - 09:32 AM.


#18 Mister Maf

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 10:02 AM

This is a good suggestion. The stats and mechanics for LRMs, ATMs, and standard PPCs are extremely opaque. New players are not going to know all of these alternative methods to suss out the range brackets, nor should they have to. The changes the OP suggests are simple and would go a long way to making these things easier to understand.

#19 Wolfos31

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 06:41 AM

I like this suggestion a lot. And it seems like silly/lazy design for them to not provide this information. At the very least they should provide it in text.

Do ATMs show as green (optimal range) when you are firing from max damage range while in game? And then yellow if you'll still do damage but outside of the max damage range bracket? When playing them I just go by "make sure the target is about 200m away"

#20 Talorien

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 06:15 AM

View PostWolfos31, on 24 April 2019 - 06:41 AM, said:

Do ATMs show as green (optimal range) when you are firing from max damage range while in game? And then yellow if you'll still do damage but outside of the max damage range bracket? When playing them I just go by "make sure the target is about 200m away"


Great question, anyone know?

Btw ATM min range is 120m. This is extremely opaque in-game.





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