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Better Lurming On Hpg Manifold?


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#1 Phoenix 72

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:43 PM

Hello everybody!

I am currently skilling up an LRM40 / 2HML Cougar and I keep getting HPG Manifold. While it is one of my favourite maps, I am struggling with it while playing LRMs. It just seems fairly easy to get behind cover most of the time.

What I tried was taking advantage of my ECM and nibbling at the enemy around the edges, but that did not work too well. I also tried to take high ground and shoot down, but every time I reached the top, I already found Heavies or Assault Mechs waiting for me.

Last match was a bit of a last straw for me, when a guy that only started playing in April called me out for being lousy LRM support... While he was the guy on our team that did the least damage aside from an AFK and I did the most damage, I think he got some points.

I feel like did spend too much time positioning and not enough shooting. Getting LOS to the murder ball was tricky without receiving return fire and indirect fire did not work due to ecm interference. So some suggestions would be welcome.

If anybody also has some suggestions in how not to get offended when a 3:12 loss is blamed on you when you did top damage, I am willing to hear that, too. The guy did under 20% of my damage and logically, I know that he is trying to deflect from his performance. But it still really bothers me.

#2 Y E O N N E

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:55 PM

I mean, I have a solution but you probably won't like it.

#3 Buster Machine 0

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 11:34 PM

Everyone gets loss streaks, it's just the state of the matchmaker right now in MWO.

#4 Kiiyor

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 12:19 AM

I'd suggest a little less reliance on others holding locks (sorry for making an assumption if that's not what you do).

The only way to avoid lurm flinging frustration on maps with decent cover options like the HPG is to force yourself to maintain eye contact with your foes, and play with the mindset that you've carrying direct fire weapons.

Works for me at any rate.

#5 Snowhawk

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 01:33 AM

The cougar is a Little bit difficult to Play because it does not have the Speed of a "real" scout. It's more a support-scout. Just stay near or behind your Team and support them with ecm. If you can get your own locks then do it, if not just use the locks of your Team.
There is still some salt against lrm-players because some Players are playing their lrm-boat very defensly and are sitting in the back. Sometimes the Team is loosing and then spectacing the last Player with Fresh armor hiding in a Corner. This can be very frustrating for the Team an gives a bad Reputation for Lrm-Mechs. I think Lrm's ar far better then their Reputation and a part of the battletech universe and of Course Mwo.
By the way, some months ago there were some well known streamers and pro-Gamers who played lrm-boats with good results (in quick-Play).

#6 justcallme A S H

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 02:43 AM

View PostY E O N N E, on 17 May 2019 - 10:55 PM, said:

I mean, I have a solution but you probably won't like it.


Lol ...

I too have a solution... MOAR LURMS.

I have no drama cranking 1k dmg with them thanks to the trajectory changes... No where is safe on the map now.

#7 LordNothing

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 03:11 AM

View PostSnowhawk, on 18 May 2019 - 01:33 AM, said:

The cougar is a Little bit difficult to Play because it does not have the Speed of a "real" scout. It's more a support-scout. Just stay near or behind your Team and support them with ecm. If you can get your own locks then do it, if not just use the locks of your Team.
There is still some salt against lrm-players because some Players are playing their lrm-boat very defensly and are sitting in the back. Sometimes the Team is loosing and then spectacing the last Player with Fresh armor hiding in a Corner. This can be very frustrating for the Team an gives a bad Reputation for Lrm-Mechs. I think Lrm's ar far better then their Reputation and a part of the battletech universe and of Course Mwo.
By the way, some months ago there were some well known streamers and pro-Gamers who played lrm-boats with good results (in quick-Play).


i actually like slower tankier lights. of course the cougar rarely cuts it for me. i need the dire kitten/adder or urbanmech in my life.

#8 Phoenix 72

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 03:16 AM

Let me guess, the solution is to not play LRMs? :)

I avoided them for near on 18 months... I was growing bored with the same old Mechs... At least I am using a Light Mech to lurm, so it is not too much of an armour loss on the front line... And yeah, I am not going to play an Assault Lurmboat, sorry.

Guess I need to try to stay more within the team cohesion. I normally do that with the direct fire Mechs, but I thought the ECM would allow me to more effective by keeping stragglers busy... So I Nascared heavily in a wide circle in one of the games.

Found it problematic to find a target when the enemy held the top and stayed in the middle, as I could not get LOS from the low or middle ground...

Guess I will try again and see whether I improve.

#9 Unnatural Growth

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 05:11 AM

I would suggest you get right into the middle of your team. Don't play from the back or lurm from the sidelines. When I (rarely) take a lurm mech, it's mostly my Hunchback J, with my own backup weapons and my own tag. I also put myself right behind the first line team mates, and drop lurms on the enemy front line from there.

For the event challenge, I did drop one match in my old Stalker 5S missile boat. Honestly it's mostly hot garbage as far as a lurm boat goes (and the build is garbage, no tag and no BAP, but I hadn't played this mech in years, just dropped in it only for the event. And put it away again right after getting the achievement in it).

But we did drop on HPG. We were nascaring around and the enemy had the high center. By waiting until one of them peaked over the edge, I was able to get a lock, direct fire my missiles, and dump rain on them. But you have to wait for them to peak, and hit them from direct fire mode, so the missile flight arc is flat. You don't get much time for this, and usually they drop back right away, so you can only send one volley per "peak-and-lock".

My suggestion is to insert yourself directly into the middle of your team, and stay there. I also prefer SRM's to LRM's, and think you'd have more fun with that Cougar if you set it up as an SRM striker. Keep the ECM, put on 3 SRM-6's and some pulse lasers and go be a pain in the butt. Plus if you're actually inserted into the middle of your team, you can give them the benefit of your ECM bubble too.

#10 Siegegun

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 05:17 AM

The cougar is a nice little support mech. That said I would move to a larger weight mech for using LRMs. I only use the cougar for weight restrictions on CW. LRMs are more about positioning and tube count. Mining collective is not a "bad" LRM map. Like the direct fire weapon systems you just have to learn the firing angles for each map, and they are not what the firing angles for a direct fire mech are. Also when using LRMs never go off alone, never stand far back. You should be rolling with your big guys, supporting them as close as possible like 200-300 meters away max. I like to be in the deathball with them. By sticking with your heavies and assaults you can more easily focus fire on their targets and get as much direct fire shots as possible. This also stops small knife fighters from ripping you up, as your higher weight buddies can destroy any lights that come into the deathball.

Using a light for LRM support is not a super great idea as your damage out put is severely restricted. I use a heavy usually. I personally would not worry about "taking up a heavy slot" as the weight restrictions are not even enforced really anymore. I just dropped the other day and there were no lights and almost all assaults and heavies. In other words your just gimping yourself by running light and "not taking up armor". Also as a heavy and running in the deathball you CAN use your armor to help a bit in that area.

#11 Captain Caveman DE

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 07:01 AM

take top, press and hold fire, profit.
:)

my lurmdog did meh' on HPG before the change. now it runs out of ammo most time I use it, if the game isn't a stomp.
the patch really buffed the direct-fire lurming in that you can use them on (nearly) any map now. try the above, it is -that- simple.
;)

#12 Phoenix 72

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 08:30 AM

Well, I continue to struggle in the Mech. Maybe I am just not built for piloting light Mechs or LRM's, I dunno. Might give it a rest and stick with other Mechs for a bit...

#13 Captain Caveman DE

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 08:34 AM

View PostDarakor Stormwind, on 18 May 2019 - 08:30 AM, said:

Well, I continue to struggle in the Mech. Maybe I am just not built for piloting light Mechs or LRM's, I dunno. Might give it a rest and stick with other Mechs for a bit...


well.. it is not the most useful light in any way, shape or form - so don't feel bad about it.
I bought the collectors-edition when it was released; -all- of my cougars rarely see the battlefield. and certainly not when there's close/good/hard (all the same) games ahead.
that thing needs some serious buffs to give it a niche where its not just outclassed by everything.
don't get me wrong, there are ofc good builds for it.
but there is NO build other mechs don't simply do better.

Edited by Captain Caveman DE, 18 May 2019 - 08:35 AM.


#14 Phoenix 72

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 11:20 AM

Yeah, I wanted to try out something a little different, instead of running the same Mechs over and over. Light Mechs and me do not really click, I guess...

I just to a lot better with direct fire weapons I guess and Mechs that can actually take a few hits. Maybe I will try my luck in the Wolfhound(s) that I have not skilled yet, Light Mech wise... Or just stick with heavier Mechs for a bit longer...

***EDIT: I just realised something... Apparently I am not doing quite as bad in the Cougar as I feared...
Mech' Matches Played Wins Losses Ratio Kills Deaths Ratio Damage Done XP Earned Time Played
COUGAR COU-E 27 15 12 1.25 28 13 2.15 8,452 30,891 03:20:16

It's not good, but at least it is not terrible, either...***

Edited by Darakor Stormwind, 18 May 2019 - 11:24 AM.


#15 Phoenix 72

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 08:21 AM

The Mech really remains hit and miss... Well, miss and hit... A lot more games are bad than good... Wanted to take advantage of the premium time to finish skilling the Mech and get the missile event done...1 and 3 with it... Solaris City twice in a row did not help at all...

The win finally came on Polar. But there, it worked really, really well. 782 damage is on the high side in a Light Mech for me. Well, one good more good win and I am done skilling the Mech. Then I can mothball it until it is required for an event.

#16 JC Daxion

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 03:04 AM

I actually have a LRM cougar. It's the only build i could find that i actually could get any sort of damage out of with that mech. But it's a bit different. 2 LRM10's+2 ERLL's.

Basically you need to run with the assaults, hopefully you have some ERLL, PPC, or gauss mechs on your team. when they peak, peak with them, on their outside shoulder, then back up.. Just make sure you leave them room to start their reverse.. Don't be one those guys that has no clue how to pass on the outside shoulder.

#17 Jman5

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 10:25 AM

It's harder to get under cover if you have flanked a target, get closer, get your own locks, invest in target decay and missile velocity skills, try to work at prejudging which targets are hittable and which are a waste of ammo.

Edited by Jman5, 26 May 2019 - 10:26 AM.


#18 Phoenix 72

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 10:41 AM

Well, I am trying to stick with the group these days and provide ECM cover in addition to my damage. However, that also means that my fire lanes get blocked a lot. And when you have multiple bottlenecks, like in Solaris City, and are not on the high ground that severely limits your options.

Indirect fire helps in that the missiles clear your front line. Allowing better fire support, IMO. I still try to mix it up with direct and indirect fire to be able to support where help is needed.

Either way, I do not think I will ever become a great lurmer. I just want to have one fully skilled LRM mech for events... I also do have a Mad Dog that can use LRMs, but I enjoyed playing that one even less than the Cougar.

#19 Jman5

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 10:53 AM

View PostDarakor Stormwind, on 26 May 2019 - 10:41 AM, said:

Well, I am trying to stick with the group these days and provide ECM cover in addition to my damage. However, that also means that my fire lanes get blocked a lot. And when you have multiple bottlenecks, like in Solaris City, and are not on the high ground that severely limits your options.

Indirect fire helps in that the missiles clear your front line. Allowing better fire support, IMO. I still try to mix it up with direct and indirect fire to be able to support where help is needed.

Either way, I do not think I will ever become a great lurmer. I just want to have one fully skilled LRM mech for events... I also do have a Mad Dog that can use LRMs, but I enjoyed playing that one even less than the Cougar.


Solaris city is always going to be a nightmare for reliable LRM damage. Getting close is even more important there.


View PostDarakor Stormwind, on 17 May 2019 - 10:43 PM, said:

If anybody also has some suggestions in how not to get offended when a 3:12 loss is blamed on you when you did top damage, I am willing to hear that, too. The guy did under 20% of my damage and logically, I know that he is trying to deflect from his performance. But it still really bothers me.


Block button is cathartic.

However, I will say it's worth thinking about what you could have done better even if you do a lot of damage. I had a game earlier where I helped get us a very early 5 cap lead, but we lost. I had the highest cap time on my team, the highest damage, and most kills. So it's easy to blame the 6 or 7 guys who decided to aggressively attack when they were out numbered. Or I could think about the fact that I should have been paying attention more, plugged in my mic, and yelled at them to play defensively since we're destroying them on caps and I had killed their only capper. Bads will be bads, but it doesn't mean there was nothing you could do better next time.

#20 Alienized

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 11:16 AM

damage is not always a good indicator of a good performance. especially for LRM players/spread weapons in general.

LRM spread damage so much that you have alot of inflated damage when the enemy should been dead alot faster.
same goes for mrm's and lbx's.

also, alot of people dont do alot of damage yet have a higher impact on the battle than you might think just by the numbers.

example:

if i can distract 4 people to engage me offside the battles and lure them into a isolated spot, i might get killed and dont do alot of damage but the rest of the team has a mechnumber advantage it should be able to use and win.
no stat in MWO or any game will count that BUT that should not reduce the impact it had.
if you cant win a 11vs 8 battle then it surely wouldnt be my fault alone.


as for lurms: pair them with direct fire weapons and have a better tactical control/impact than purely having to hide and rely on spots/indirect fire.





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