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Why Nascar And Not Firing Line?


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#1 JC Daxion

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 07:17 PM

I have zero clue why nascar rules. More often than not the nascar mechs catch up one by one. Why don't the slow guys/ heavy mechs stop and grab cover, while the couple quick guys flank one way or another...


I just don't get it. It certainly is not comp or high end play, but why is QP nascar a thing? I can't even count how many times reverse/firing line just destroys folks, even if it is just 2-3 mechs holding the line. Often those few "tanks" can hold up the entire team while the others catchup. (yea i get that, in those cases nascar worked, because 3-4 mechs slowed them up enough) But still..


Maybe it is a QP thing, or maybe because people turn off talk/chat.. i dunno. For a team sport, seams like at least in QP, people don't wanna team. Though i will say, when some folks call, or talk, or work together even in a loss it is often far better.


What are your thoughts on this? Is it just join a Unit, and play the new FW and QP is all about solo?

#2 FupDup

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 07:21 PM

It's been ingrained for so long that it's become like some kind of pre-programmed subroutine in everybodys' brains.

#3 Battlemaster56

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 08:19 PM

Alot of people in QP who play heavies and assaults are straight out ret*rded, especially when they try following the fast mediums and lights. In the end it force other heavies and assaults who can't nascar to nascar because sticking with the team = high survivabilty and a good win chance.

Personally I just want smart flanks and not ring around the roses in hpg, and mining 24/7.

#4 Arnold The Governator

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 08:34 PM

Nascar happens where there is a distinct lack of communication that is especially annoying if you are a solo player. It happens with brain dead morons who think that by abandoning team mates and generally screwing over the entire team for some event rewards is more important. I wish there was a way to report nascaring because it really does ruin the game for many people, but it would be nearly impossible to punish people for it. Problem is the vast majority is normally silent and like FupDup said, it's integrated in the brain of potato team mates.

PGI should have exaggerated the importance of good team communication in the tutorial for MW:O. I don't remember if they actually go over this during the tutorial since it's been so long, but it is really vital for a game that is based around good team play in order to win.

#5 WrathOfDeadguy

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 08:40 PM

It's sort of baked into gamer psychology at this point, isn't it? Ever since the earliest days of 2D platformers- spawn in, go right at full throttle, profit!

It works somewhat less well in 3D.

#6 Novakaine

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 09:29 PM

I blame the public "edumacation" systemPosted Image

#7 The6thMessenger

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 09:47 PM

My experience, as a personal experience, is this need to flank enemies, to get a good angle to keep shooting them. The resulting out-flank causes the enemy to find a different cover. Rinse and repeat.

#8 justcallme A S H

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 09:51 PM

View PostArnold The Governator, on 18 May 2019 - 08:34 PM, said:

Nascar happens where there is a distinct lack of communication SKILL


Fixed.

There are too many people in T3 to T1 that have a low amount of it.

Due to people essentially climbing above their paygrade due to purely selfish play (running away from Assaults to farm their own dmg in Hvy/Meds) they are rewarded by climbing even in a loss and if you get a win, it's exacerbated.

Firing line and use of cover is intelligent play.

Running AWAY from the fight and doing 150dmg the entire game because you die to being shot in the bottom, is not intelligent play.

Sadly unless Tier / PSR is fixed, it's only going to get worse as this poor play is rewarded by giving people a PSR gain for contributing nothing.

#9 Y E O N N E

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 09:58 PM

You don't even need communication to not NASCAR, you just need to have a spine and the intelligence to actually look at your damn minimap.

#10 Snowhawk

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 10:02 PM

Players learnd "to Nascar".... and now it's a classical conditioning. Posted Image Posted Image
For those who don't understand what i'm saying: https://en.wikipedia...al_conditioning



Posted Image

#11 crazytimes

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 10:40 PM

Potato rotato is juat how the game is played. Dump weapons for engine in qp. Better under weaponed and alive to do damage over time than huge alpha and dead.

I've got a super-meta build saved for some of my heavier mechs that is max STD engine and armour, a handful of small weapons. After a frustrating nascar loss, busting out a 83kmh Warhammer with 4 LPPC and 2lmg is just what the doctor ordered. Until someone dies and is spectacting, then questions may be raised.




#12 RickySpanish

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 11:02 PM

Because given the choice, people would rather shoot at their opponents from the side instead of head on. My theory for why is that it's not nice getting shot at.

#13 DaZur

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 11:15 PM

It's dual fold...

One, as others shared it's become ingrained as a play mechanic (I do however remember back in closed beta when both teams just marched forward in firing lines). That said, even for the players that know better it's a means of self-preservation.

If you don't rotate with the team you lose compounded force strength and are easy prey.

Edited by DaZur, 18 May 2019 - 11:15 PM.


#14 LordNothing

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 11:26 PM

2 things

players are told to stay together. this encourages some rather horrid behaviors. meatshielding. leg humping. etc. they are conditioned that splitting up is always bad even though in some cases staying together can be the worst thing to do. at pro levels the usual way to go about it is to actually split up to try to maximize map control. they are also often using loadouts that are effective at least to moderate range.

squirrels. squirrels like to go get a heads up of the battlefield while the fat mechs are still moving out of the drop zone. they call this behavior scouting, even though the game always kind of plays out in the same way almost every time. people confuse this behavior with leadership. he seems like he knows what hes doing, mostly by doing something when everyone else is going duhhhh. it starts with the mediums and by the time the heavies join in its too late. by virtue of stay together now the fatmechs and slow heavies have no choice but to play catch up to the squirrels.

add in the minor fact that most people are right handed and you get nascar. some will try to justify it as a legit strategy (and it can be if you had planned to do it from the get go), to others its just a really dumb thing to do. the fact that it works sometimes just comes from the fact that one side has to win if both are nascaring, and it usually goes to the ones with the faster mechs. fp provides a nice mechanic to prevent nascar, its called respawn. by forcing the team to be mindful of their drop zone to avoid getting spawn camped you make sure to choose an approach that can head off any potential spawn campers. not to say nascar doesnt happen but when it does its usually not as effective to the point where its no longer the default strategy.

Edited by LordNothing, 18 May 2019 - 11:27 PM.


#15 ChenGGez

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 11:36 PM

Nascar counters both firing lines and nascar. Firing lines only counter nascar.

"Flank harder!" - The Nascar Creed.

#16 Burning2nd

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 11:56 PM

Because people can not move and shoot at the same target

SO "FIRING LINE" like this is the 18th century

Followed by Hill humping.. and the use or Reverse

continual movement: trade forward position: communicating: sharing armor (these are the words you seek)

#17 ShiverMeRivets

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 01:13 AM

NASCAR is not a tactic - it is the result of cowardice combined with herd mentality. This is why it happens even when the players agree to form an anti-nascar firing line.

This is how it goes:
1. Enemy comes around the corner and shoot at our line.
2. Mediums and Heavies take some damage and panic (lights already went off to do god knows what regardless).
3. Slightly damaged mechs disengage from the firing line and decide that it is “smarter” to “flank” the enemies while their buddies hold the line.
4. More players decide to “flank”, thinning the line.
5. Assults and remaining heavies find themselves out numbered and swarmed by enemy lights/mediums without the protection of the friendly lights/mediums that went to “flank”.
6. Remaining mechs go “OH SH##!” and start retreating- last man to run dies. Then the next last man dies.
7. We have a nascar.

Now, this is so predictable that with the 1st sign of players leaving the line, the race to “not be the last guy” starts immediately.

#18 Darakor Stormwind

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 01:55 AM

Okay, I am just wondering... Consider the amount of abuse I have seen heaped on people that are the first to die, especially if they die with low damage numbers, and considering that everybody tells people to "trade only when it is in your favour", is it really surprising that people try anything to stay alive?

When was the last you have seen an Atlas lead a push that led to winning the game and heard people thanking him for it? I mostly keep seeing stuff like "******* YOLO dudes!!! This was soooo unnecessary!!!" as a reply.

When I lose games, I for one am much more likely to see some person attacking his own team than I hear a "Well, it was a good try. We will do better next time!" Last time I heard that I was playing in T3.

In fact, I got a compliment about my positioning today... It was so unexpected and completely outside my experience, that I did not even know what to say. I had been fighting with my MAD IIC on the platform on the Mining Collective, no override and took a shot causing me to overheat while dropping down and out of sight of the enemy. Hitting the enemy and sticking the landing. ;)

This is beyond rare. The compliment, not me actually doing something useful for once. ;)

#19 The6thMessenger

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 03:20 AM

It's even more frustrating when I'm trying to drop-call, but nobody is listening. I just had a match on Canyon Network, asked team to stay on the rim and make a firing line. Nope, nascar.

#20 Darakor Stormwind

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 03:40 AM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 19 May 2019 - 03:20 AM, said:

It's even more frustrating when I'm trying to drop-call, but nobody is listening. I just had a match on Canyon Network, asked team to stay on the rim and make a firing line. Nope, nascar.


I usually test the waters with a "Good Morning!" via voice. If I do not get an answer to that, I know I can forget drop calls.

And yeah, I had that today as well. Died to being left behind on Canyon and Mining Collective. I was busy shooting both times and only after the enemy I had been fighting was down, started wondering where everybody else was... In one case (Canyon) I even told my team the enemy was pushing up the ramp, to box them in on the low ground and not let them up the ramp. /shrug

We even had a Shadowcat sniping from maximum range that ran away as soon as the second to last Mech fell, to let the timer run out, with 90%ish armour left. What some people do for their K/D ratios... /sigh

Edited by Darakor Stormwind, 19 May 2019 - 03:41 AM.






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