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Rifleman Iic: First Impressions

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#1 Arnold The Governator

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 08:19 PM

As many as you already know who lurk here, I have been pushing to try to get this mech to get into MW:O for so many years now since 2015. In case you are new on the forums and have no clue what I'm talking about, I'm an old MW:2 fan who was fanatical about getting the Rifleman IIC into Mechwarrior Online. If you look at my signature on my profile you can find everything Rifleman IIC over on that thread. It's the mech that got me into the franchise. Scroll down for a TL:DR.

Now that we finally have it, I think it's time I remove my rose tinted nostalgia glasses and give you my honest opinions and (early) impressions about it that might be subjective to change over time. Don't take this as an ominous statement since I have ALOT of positives to say about the mech. I'll start with the Pro's and the Con's from what I have experienced so far.


Pro's:

1) Alex and the 3D modeling design team nailed it out of the ball park. It looks freaking awesome and it is possibly one of the best re-imaginings of the mech. I love the blend of the classic Rifleman IIC look while it doesn't suffer from anime ridiculousness. This looks like a realistic tanky war machine while still paying homage to the original concept art. I couldn't have asked for a better looking mech.

2) The mobility and torso movement of the mech. I was worried that the Rifleman IIC was going to be a victim of Warhammer IIC syndrome but I was pleasantly surprised to find out I was wrong. It has great agility despite it's slower speeds and can torso twist confidently to spread out damage consistently. I'm really happy about this because it would be guaranteed DOA across all variants if it didn't have it. It seems like PGI did listen to the reception of the Warhammer IIC in this case.

3) Hill peaking and jump jet pop tarting. It hill peaks very well (with decent acceleration and deceleration) and it does have good jump jet pop tarting potential. I feel that hill peaking is primarily the way to keep this thing alive from my limited experience so far. I will get into more details of why this is both a positive and a negative. High arm mounts and hard points should definitely be accounted for here.

4) Great build versatility. The Rifleman IIC and most of it's variants excel in being hard hitting gun boats. Despite the limited engine caps you can do alot of different versatile builds. I'm sure the meta builds haven't been touched on yet and are still waiting to be discovered.


Con's:

1) It's engine cap. I was worried that this was going to be an issue in QP but have found ways to deal with it's limited speeds. Unless you max skill tree nodes unlocked for the 235 engine capped variants, or if you are running the 2 or the A you are a primary target for lights and faster mechs. If you are left behind by potato team mates whose sole focus is to NASCAR then you are not going to have fun. I recommend as much GXP or earned XP on node in survivability which is absolutely mandatory for this mech. Out of the box it suffers pretty greatly.

2) Hitboxes. Despite it's deceptively slim looking profile, it's large and it seems like it takes a beating fairly easy. I think this issue goes back to the limited engine cap because again when it comes to MW:O, Speed is mandatory for survivability to keep up with your team, or you need armor quirks to compensate for the slower speeds. I feel that PGI was a little harsh punishing the mech with engine cap limitations when I feel it should have gotten a light Annihilator treatment. Thankfully the head radar dish isn't an issue as so many people were dreading it would be. It's oddly like a slow glass cannon.

3) Limited hard points. Despite having high arm mounts and hard points, the mech is limited in hard points compared to other clan mechs in it's weight class. I can definitely confirm that this mech will not be dethroning meta mechs like the Hellbringer, Mad Dog, Ebon Jaguar, etc. any time soon due to the core issues of the limited engine cap and how it can absorb damage like a sponge.


My final thoughts: I would like to see some minor armor and/or structural quirks taken into consideration so that it can be a contender compared to other mechs like the Hellbringer, Ebon Jag, Mad Dog, etc. so that this mech doesn't turn into another nostalgia pump and dump that will simply collect dust to a vast majority of players. It is unfortunately very reliant on the skill tree to be viable and it does punish players that do not or not willing to invest into it. Overall I am very happy that we finally got the mech in MW:O and I will continue to play it. Just my two cents so far.


TL:DR A mech that has great potential and could be meta worthy, but needs either a bump in the engine cap or structural armor quirks in order to compete with mechs like the Hellbringer, Ebon Jaguar, Mad Dog, etc.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 21 May 2019 - 08:34 PM.


#2 RickySpanish

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 08:48 PM

It's ridiculous, I love it. Without a single point spent on skills it performs well, it also spreads damage OK and obviously brings some big guns. The speed isn't a problem - its nice profile and gun placement means it can comfortably peak, alpha, and reposition while cooling off. 3xLB10-X on the 2 and 2xLB20-X + 3xMPL on the CH have been my best performers. 4xLPL + 3xERML are just a hair too hot on the base variant but with skills it will be able to alpha that I think.

Edited by RickySpanish, 21 May 2019 - 08:49 PM.


#3 Moochachoo

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 09:11 PM

Is the entire head CT?

#4 Hestan

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 09:16 PM

Think this mech will need some tweaking before it is middle of the pack. Played every variant with at least one victory on each so far the first day. Think I mostly agree with Arnold.

Hit box's:
This mech seems to be mostly arms and CT. Very squishy if somebody starts staring at you. I think it will get some quirks to help, hope it isn't structure quirks like they did to the Rifleman.

#5 Arnold The Governator

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 10:00 PM

View PostMoochachoo, on 21 May 2019 - 09:11 PM, said:

Is the entire head CT?

I don't think it is. The radar dish doesn't seem like something alot of people aim for when they are shooting at you. It's a non issue since the Rifleman IIC had good acceleration/deceleration when peaking hills. I can tell you most of my deaths have been mostly just CT's from my chest.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 21 May 2019 - 10:00 PM.


#6 Lithology

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 10:48 PM

I have only had time to play the reinforcements (the -4 and the -A variants), but I was surprised that they did as well as they did without SP, so I am game to find how the standard (?) variants make out. I was kind of curious if there would be an Event for the RFL-IIC... a new mech usually gets one within a day, but we shall see.

#7 Kiiyor

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 11:24 PM

The geometry is... wierd. At first I was happy with how well you could shield with the arms, especially compared to the Yagermech - but then I realized that OMG it's really easy to shield with your arms, and have them blown to smithereens if you're not staring directly into the eyes of your foes. Need to teach myself to treat every enemy like the ghosts in Mario. Also, the high mounts aren't actually that high when compared to cockpit level and the odd silhouette of your handy-dandy peeking announcement sombrero.

Having spent a few matches with them, I think the vanilla 4LPL build will be the only real ongoing standout with it's quirk, as most of the Dakka variants can be covered better by other mechs - the MadCatMKII is a much better UACCA boat IMHO, and if AC2's are your thing there's standoff dakka whales to scratch that itch.

I love me some WUBS though, and can see myself spending time with it. I still have fond memories of my WUBJack before it was requirkenated into garbage.

Edited by Kiiyor, 21 May 2019 - 11:25 PM.


#8 RickySpanish

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 04:10 AM

Well yes the MCMK2 is better at dakka. It's also an Assault...

#9 Ilfi

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 04:18 AM

Mainly interested in seeing how much work players can put in with 6 UAC2 and the spook-free 4LPL setups. We already know twin UAC10 + twin UAC5 is good on the Mechs that can fit it, so someone having a giggle with a skeleton dakka Rifleman build won't surprise me too much.

#10 Kiiyor

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 05:39 AM

View PostIlfi, on 22 May 2019 - 04:18 AM, said:

Mainly interested in seeing how much work players can put in with 6 UAC2 and the spook-free 4LPL setups. We already know twin UAC10 + twin UAC5 is good on the Mechs that can fit it, so someone having a giggle with a skeleton dakka Rifleman build won't surprise me too much.

So far, consensus with myself and those peeps still on my friends list is that it's a solid mech, but not consistent.

You can't take damage and the engine cap is a huge dead weight.

Spawn locations have been my biggest killer so far. You don't often spawn with the assaults, so you don't have assault level firepower to deter entrepreneuring fast movers from eating you while your own faster heavies (which is... all of them) set their sighting laps for their debut into today's NASCAR Indy please-don't-leave-me-oh-god-guys-come-back-500.

The extra LPL HSL is welcome, but it's still only a 48 point alpha, and you have no armour or heat quirks to help your DPS and survivability. If you manage to find a decent spot to poke you can do well, on those scant few occasions where your team has managed to get bogged down instead of turning hard to the left.

#11 Grus

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 05:42 AM

As someone who didn't buy one....

It's really easy to pop. Melts good. Would alpha again 10/10.

#12 CygnusX7

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 05:55 AM

My head was crit 3 times last night. Only 5 or 6 matches but it gets shot at, as it should.

#13 justcallme A S H

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 08:16 AM

The CT hitbox is very easy to hit. Barely take damage to any torsos and even the arms despite how big they are. The mech could definitely go with a little adjustment to Torso/CT hitbox area.

The only way to make the mech really work is sitting @ 600m+ in any laser/dakka build and try mitigate incoming damage via range. For QP - That is often hard to do because of the silly close-quarter rotations that go on due to the lower average skill of the player base. Combine that with low engine cap...

It'll be OK in Faction Play, struggling in Quick Play IMO.

#14 - World Eater -

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 08:26 AM

Didn't purchase a pack but I am a little surprised that I haven't seen that many in game so far.

#15 RickySpanish

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 09:04 AM

Yes it wasn't a super common choice last night. Speed wasn't an issue at all, but it's painful fighting without skills. Jumping with 2 LB20-X brings back memories of classic Highlander pop tarting at 200 metres back in the day. I'm not convinced the dish is anything other than CT though... Hmmm.

#16 Arnold The Governator

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 01:06 PM

So I still stand by my statement. I'm not 100% sure if it's a hitbox issue but I can't honestly tell if I have 11 tons of ferro-fibrous armor when I field the Rifleman IIC. Even with full survivability nodes maxed out in the skill tree my armor drops from 100% to 79% just from one artillery strike. It's just way too squishy to enjoy properly at the moment. I think we need to let Chris know so that they can investigate if it's a hitbox issue or if it just needs default durability quirks across all of the chassis'.

#17 RickySpanish

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 01:09 PM

View PostArnold The Governator, on 22 May 2019 - 01:06 PM, said:

So I still stand by my statement. I'm not 100% sure if it's a hitbox issue but I can't honestly tell if I have 11 tons of ferro-fibrous armor when I field the Rifleman IIC. Even with full survivability nodes maxed out in the skill tree my armor drops from 100% to 79% just from one artillery strike. It's just way too squishy to enjoy properly at the moment. I think we need to let Chris know so that they can investigate if it's a hitbox issue or if it just needs default durability quirks across all of the chassis'.


Actually I did get a Arty on my head and took a fair bit of damage, it was something I only noticed in passing until I read your comment. I reckon that dish hit box is properly dickered.

#18 Arnold The Governator

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 01:25 PM

View PostRickySpanish, on 22 May 2019 - 01:09 PM, said:

Actually I did get a Arty on my head and took a fair bit of damage, it was something I only noticed in passing until I read your comment. I reckon that dish hit box is properly dickered.

To be honest from my experience, I don't think the radar dish is an issue since I feel that my center torso is really the thing that gets constantly targeted even when I torso twist when fighting other mechs. For artillery strikes the radar dish does seem like an issue that could get resolved with some additional armor structural quirks for the side torsos.

#19 RickySpanish

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 01:27 PM

View PostArnold The Governator, on 22 May 2019 - 01:25 PM, said:

To be honest from my experience, I don't think the radar dish is an issue since I feel that my center torso is really the thing that gets constantly targeted even when I torso twist when fighting other mechs. For artillery strikes the radar dish does seem like an issue that could get resolved with some additional armor structural quirks for the side torsos.


Right so if the dish is CT that would explain why it gets lost so easily, someone ought to check!

#20 Chris Lowrey

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 01:35 PM

View PostArnold The Governator, on 22 May 2019 - 01:06 PM, said:

I think we need to let Chris know so that they can investigate if it's a hitbox issue or if it just needs default durability quirks across all of the chassis'.


No need. We never drop new content or balance changes and then walk away thinking the jobs done. Any content or game-play change introduced in any patch has intended internal targets that we monitor for. If it does not reach, or overshoots our targets, we will make further changes. This happened recently with the AMS changes from the April Patch.

We have seen this talking point come up before with many new 'Mech releases. Huntsman / Sun Spider / Vapor Eagle off the top of my head had a number of similar CT complaints upon initial release. Sometimes players adapt. Sometimes, like with the Sun Spider, we find the need to intervene and make adjustments. We will continue to monitor how the 'Mech settles into the game as players skill them up and will make changes if we feel they are needed.





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