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Do You Have To Double Tap Uacs?


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#1 Mechwarrior 37

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 03:53 PM

I've never used them. I would not accept or take a weapon into battle that jammed.

But, this is a video game.

I normally use LBX's so they fire fast and have one hit like a I.S. AC.

With UACS, do I wait for the first stream of them then tap the same button again?

I find this whole stream of shells to be odd. The one InnerS thing I really like is their one round ACs.

#2 The6thMessenger

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 03:59 PM

yes, you can fire them during cooldown once, but you may jam when you do so.

While it is optional, consider that if you are rarely double-tapping, you are losing out on DPS and investment that would otherwise would have been adequate with standard ACs.

#3 Maddermax

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 10:40 PM

Yeah, double tapping is optional, so you can hold off if you want to prevent jams (good if you’re taking long range pot shots, and need to line up the shots). However, if you’re not double tapping most of the time, then UACs are just very hot ACs, and you’re missing out on the burst damage that is basically the whole point of taking a UAC.

Jams are a pain, but you learn to manage them so you’re not caught short.

#4 ImperialKnight

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 11:22 PM

if you double tap too fast, you may incur ghost heat if it goes above the heat scale level.

#5 Mechwarrior 37

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:08 AM

The way I understand it, UACs should not work with Firecontrol.

Here is the one match I played but using FireControl and the damage seems high. This is Tier 2 and it is 250 plus points more than I normally do.

Could Fire Control be double tapping?

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#6 The Basilisk

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 08:49 AM

View PostMechwarrior 37, on 25 May 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:

The way I understand it, UACs should not work with Firecontrol.

[...]

Could Fire Control be double tapping?



What do you mean by firecontroll ?
Do you mean Backspace/aka chainfire or some 3rd party prog/mouse script ?

Doubletaping an UAC means firing it again by hitting its firing circuit during its cooldown phase after its first shot.
This can not happen when you just hold down its fire button or when you have the weapon on chainfire and an other weapon ready to fire.
You have to press its fire button again and again and again for using its ultra mode.

Edited by The Basilisk, 25 May 2019 - 08:50 AM.


#7 Roland09

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 02:55 PM

Indeed, fire control is a macro.

Not sure using it is legal, remember the fiasco with RACs using it a few months back? On the other hand, see here:

https://mwomercs.com...-30th-jan-2017/

#8 Void Angel

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 09:40 PM

Fire Control and similar macros are ok. The Code of Conduct specifically allows macros - "Keybind macro software and hardware mechanisms are permitted for use as long as such mechanisms still require manual input to initiate and do not fully automate gameplay" - provided that it doesn't provide an unfair advantage.

So using Fire Control to automate the clicking you'd have to do every time to get around the artificial chain fire limitations (as people have been for a long time,) or to use UACs in ultra mode is fine - using them to exploit the ramp-up mechanics of RACs to achieve superior performance that would be impossible without the macro is not.

Edited by Void Angel, 25 May 2019 - 10:00 PM.


#9 justcallme A S H

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 10:14 PM

Firecontrol (Macro) does nothing I cannot do with my finger.

It is therefore not broken/overpowered at all.

I wish people would stop making up absolutely inaccurate rubbish.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 26 May 2019 - 10:15 PM.


#10 Void Angel

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Posted 27 May 2019 - 07:44 PM

They're just misunderstanding the ToS.

#11 Koniving

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Posted 28 May 2019 - 03:48 PM

View PostRoland09, on 25 May 2019 - 02:55 PM, said:

Indeed, fire control is a macro.

Not sure using it is legal, remember the fiasco with RACs using it a few months back? On the other hand, see here:

https://mwomercs.com...-30th-jan-2017/


The issue with MG and RACs specifically is that the two lacked a server side cool down. RACs because the ramp up and down effect was thought to be enough and MGs...not sure why. It had a set rate when held down but it was discovered that it always fired immediately when pressed and as such if pressed faster than the intended fire rate...you effectively increased the fire rate. RACs if pressed and released and pressed rapidly enough could not start the ramp down, thus did not need to ramp up again, and you prevented the overheat/jam bar from filling and/or got them to fire faster than intended.

What prevents macros from doing what a person can't do is having a strict cool down that restricts the firing rate, which in turn ensures that any macro shennanagan can only reduce the actual firing rate of a group of guns as opposed to firing all at once. Setting 5 weapons in sequence 0.1 seconds apart means it takes 0.4 seconds longer to deliver all 5 rounds and that offset potentially gets worse over time (depending on how short the cool down time is on the weapons). This means in reality so long as the weapons are set up with a cool down time to prevent making weapons fire when they should not, a macro can't do anything that would be considered unfair

The in game chain fire is in itself a macro.

Side note; if it wasn't obvious both of them have a cool down timer greater than none which now prevents the issue.

#12 Koniving

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Posted 28 May 2019 - 03:51 PM

On the uac topic... Hold to prevent jams, double tap in emergency. Be warned the "jam on first shot" issue comes up if you are spamming the fire key too quickly as each press seems to make a jam check. The calmer you pace your double taps the less it seems to jam.

(This is speculation by observation)/, never had a first shot jam while calm, frequently had them in under three shots fired while spamming the button).

#13 Renzor the Red

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 04:52 PM

View PostMechwarrior 37, on 24 May 2019 - 03:53 PM, said:

I've never used them. I would not accept or take a weapon into battle that jammed.

But, this is a video game.

I normally use LBX's so they fire fast and have one hit like a I.S. AC.

With UACS, do I wait for the first stream of them then tap the same button again?

I find this whole stream of shells to be odd. The one InnerS thing I really like is their one round ACs.



The basic questions have probably already been answered, but I'll say it too and throw in an extra bit:

If you never double-tap Inner Sphere UAC's, it'll act just like a normal AC. Clan UAC's are different, and will mostly split up the one round into a volley, but their AC's do that anyway for the most part. Even though it can jam, it just gives you the capability of double tapping.

Even though jamming sucks, it can be worth it. There's a video out there by BlackhawkSC on Youtube showing the math of overall DPS over time comparing AC's to UAC's, and UAC's are better. UAC's are also better if you can do multiple guns, because if one or two fail, you still have others. If you're only putting one gun, best to go with AC unless you're disciplined with UAC's enough to avoid jamming.

Here, check this out:




Edited by Renzor the Red, 30 May 2019 - 04:58 PM.


#14 Horseman

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 03:07 AM

View PostRenzor the Red, on 30 May 2019 - 04:52 PM, said:

There's a video out there by BlackhawkSC on Youtube showing the math of overall DPS over time comparing AC's to UAC's, and UAC's are better.

Not always. There are some IS mechs heavily quirked for weapon cooldowns (and/or with weapon-specific cooldown buffs) which can equal or exceed UAC DPS using standard ACs and/or LBXes

Edited by Horseman, 31 May 2019 - 03:19 AM.


#15 The6thMessenger

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 05:37 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 26 May 2019 - 10:14 PM, said:

Firecontrol (Macro) does nothing I cannot do with my finger.

It is therefore not broken/overpowered at all.

I wish people would stop making up absolutely inaccurate rubbish.


And then even if it is doing something that you can't with your fingers like shooting single weapons every 0.09s, chainfiring that way also effectively spreads damage more than just shooting all ACs at once towards a single component.

It's more of a flair than actual advantage.

#16 Toha Heavy Industries

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 10:23 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 26 May 2019 - 10:14 PM, said:

Firecontrol (Macro) does nothing I cannot do with my finger.

It is therefore not broken/overpowered at all.

I wish people would stop making up absolutely inaccurate rubbish.


Sarcasm?

That statement isn't true. Firectrl can do something a human would be hard pressed to do.
for example setting UACs builds up to perfectly chainfire without ever risking a jam, down to the millisecond.
Or doubletapping multiple UACs last millisecond without overclicking once.

If you tell me you can do that too with 0% failrate, i'd call you a liar.

Even if firectrl is set up to do something a human can do, it frees up mental capacity. For example timing cainfire with far better dps then the rather bad ingame chainfire mechanic while just holding down a single button.

This is regardless if chainfire should be used or. The point is, if chainfire is used, firectrl has an edge over human input.

Then again, giving how effective chainfire is ingame, i too would say the advantages macros give over normal input are fairly negligible.

It's weird that PGI allows external input and marco software instead flat out banning it.
Ingame chainfire should have a sequencer and MS input like firectrl has, if that would be the case there wouldn't even be a need for external macros.
A lof of MMOs have very indept marco systems, it's nothing new.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 31 May 2019 - 10:24 AM.


#17 justcallme A S H

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 11:08 PM

View PostToha Heavy Industries, on 31 May 2019 - 10:23 AM, said:


Sarcasm?

That statement isn't true. Firectrl can do something a human would be hard pressed to do.
for example setting UACs builds up to perfectly chainfire without ever risking a jam, down to the millisecond.
Or doubletapping multiple UACs last millisecond without overclicking once.

If you tell me you can do that too with 0% failrate, i'd call you a liar.

Even if firectrl is set up to do something a human can do, it frees up mental capacity. For example timing cainfire with far better dps then the rather bad ingame chainfire mechanic while just holding down a single button.


Firstly chainfiring is not an advantage in MWO. Chainfiring results is spread damage. So any fire rate alteration you get, doesn't benefit. I can spam 2 mouse buttons on two groups with 6 AC2s and get a near enough similar effect and then once you have cycled once juts hold the trigger and it will fire again on cooldown.

UAC chainfire works the same as above. Firing on cooldown MWO does itself simply by holding the button down.

Also the nature of UACs is they will jam when being double tapped. Once you have it worked out in your mind, which is very easy to keep track of mentally and visually ingame... But again why wait to fire UACs, the entire point of the weapon is burst damage and into cover. If you wanna play the over-time DPS with a macro, good luck, you're once again being more inefficient.

As for brainpower that is entirely subjective. You could put the entire playerbase on macro and you wouldn't see ingame performance numbers rise because of the chainfire is less efficient, it might even lower it given it is a disadvantage.

If macros were an advantage to gameplay all the top players would be using them. The fact that not one of the top players I know in any comp teams use them - clearly demonstrates that are not an advantage over what a person can do and only a hinderance.

#18 shaytalis

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 12:28 PM

And ultimately, it's good to take the build into testing grounds. Test out the heat, find a good rhythm for your shots. I generally try to tap at half the cooldown rate, rather than immediately double-tapping, to avoid ghost heat. Essentially firing the second shot when the cooldown is halfway finished. It's effectively treating it as though you have 50% cooldown reduction if you do that.

#19 Mechwarrior 37

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 12:26 PM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 31 May 2019 - 05:37 AM, said:


And then even if it is doing something that you can't with your fingers like shooting single weapons every 0.09s, chainfiring that way also effectively spreads damage more than just shooting all ACs at once towards a single component.

It's more of a flair than actual advantage.



Here are the 3 reasons I like it. 1) Keeping heat down. 2) Making your Screen shake. 3) And helping me lead targets. Firing all of them would be better but I will take half the rounds hitting rather than none at all.

View Postshaytalis, on 05 June 2019 - 12:28 PM, said:

And ultimately, it's good to take the build into testing grounds. Test out the heat, find a good rhythm for your shots. I generally try to tap at half the cooldown rate, rather than immediately double-tapping, to avoid ghost heat. Essentially firing the second shot when the cooldown is halfway finished. It's effectively treating it as though you have 50% cooldown reduction if you do that.



I spend most of my time there. I do not play that often but I like to play "dress up" and take out new builds and compete sgainst myself. (Targets do not hit back, lol)





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