18 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Nope, I'm still pulling the same numbers i had before with the Veagle, 245m vs 270m isn't really that big of a deal, and considering the nascar around the map, it's not uncommon to get really close too.

I have yet to try this vs Assaults, but I bet they were the ones who are actually nerfed. Maybe PGI got salty because some ATM Super-Nova murdered them.

So, what are your thoughts on the ATM post nerf?

[Xetelian]

I haven't played yet but I think the upper tier players who were running around with ATM mediums are still going to be shredding teams in group queue.

[Skippy The Danger Squirrel]

Many more ATM builds in group play last night. Can't say I saw anything different in the missile performance, other than guys were getting in danger close for max damage. Didn't matter to me, because I can answer their volley with dual or quad LBXs with twice the rate of fire.

[Willard Phule]

The6thMessenger, on 18 June 2019 - 04:09 PM, said:

Nope, I'm still pulling the same numbers i had before with the Veagle, 245m vs 270m isn't really that big of a deal, and considering the nascar around the map, it's not uncommon to get really close too.

I have yet to try this vs Assaults, but I bet they were the ones who are actually nerfed. Maybe PGI got salty because some ATM Super-Nova murdered them.

So, what are your thoughts on the ATM post nerf?

The trick, at least from what I've found, lies in the lowered trajectory. If you can fire from an elevated position, ATMs can be devastating. That means either a map that gives you that elevation, or something with enough jump jets to get you there (like the Veagle).

The other trick is that if they've got any AMS running, ATM3s and 6s simply die in flight. You've got to use 9s or 12s to make them work.

[Vincent DIFrancesco]

Ran in a match last night with an ATM-armed team, including 5 pilots in VGL-3s. Their exact words? "What ATM nerf?" The game results inspired my unit lead to buy one for himself. They seem to be working just fine.

[Gen Lee]

Careful, if y'all prove to PGI that their latest ATMs nerf didn't do ****, they'll just nerf it again in the next patch...and this time, they won't worry about going too far.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Willard Phule, on 19 June 2019 - 03:27 AM, said:

The trick, at least from what I've found, lies in the lowered trajectory. If you can fire from an elevated position, ATMs can be devastating. That means either a map that gives you that elevation, or something with enough jump jets to get you there (like the Veagle).

The other trick is that if they've got any AMS running, ATM3s and 6s simply die in flight. You've got to use 9s or 12s to make them work.

same as before

and they still don't run an ams, still not hug cover, and still complain that they get murdered by missiles..

[Khobai]

ATM damage is still as dumb as ever. 3 damage per missile is still broken.

[Shadowomega1]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 19 June 2019 - 06:39 AM, said:

same as before

and they still don't run an ams, still not hug cover, and still complain that they get murdered by missiles..

Or they charge right at you, when you have the faster mech. "Yes chase my 87 KPH Mad Dog with your 64 KPH assault mech, while I just Torso Twist and volly Missiles at you."

[lovely-alfajores-0acb13]

The6thMessenger, on 18 June 2019 - 04:09 PM, said:

Nope, I'm still pulling the same numbers i had before with the Veagle, 245m vs 270m isn't really that big of a deal, and considering the nascar around the map, it's not uncommon to get really close too.

I have yet to try this vs Assaults, but I bet they were the ones who are actually nerfed. Maybe PGI got salty because some ATM Super-Nova murdered them.

So, what are your thoughts on the ATM post nerf?

I think you are missing the point of the thread exclusively regarding the ATM range nerfs.

The good players will of course pull in the same numbers because they know how to learn and adapt with the changes. They were never the concern. The issue is with players who refuse to do the same and cry for nerf after nerf after nerf after nerf. Missiles as a whole have already been hit pretty hard with the nerf bat last last patch with AMS absolutely gutting them now, and ECM making it take centuries to get a lock on. Not to mention missiles like LRMs and ATMs having dead ranges, but they also are useless on maps with lots of cover. There is literally a number of counters. The players who keep proceeding to cry for nerfs are the same ones who refuse to use any of these things.

The fact that you are still able to pull in the same numbers just proves that the range reduction has done absolutely NOTHING to mitigate the "oppressiveness" of ATMs. Because that was never the problem to begin with. All it has done is punish good players who know how to use these weapon systems to their full potential. My guess is those who asked for the nerfs were hoping that it would artificially boost their stats on the leaderboards. Surprise surprise, it has not changed a damn thing. They are still getting recked by ATMs. Still refusing to use AMS/ECM/cover. Still refuse to adapt. And still haven't learned anything.

What more does PGI have to do until these players learn to adapt on their own? Should they nerf ATMs even further because they are still getting recked by them even after the changes? Should they increase the dead range to 500m? Should they nerf the damage down to 1 at all ranges, so they are basically LRMs? Should they remove their ability to lock on and make them completely dumb fire?

Simply nerfing is not the right way to solve problems.

Edited by E X I L E, 19 June 2019 - 02:41 PM.

[dwwolf]

The real problems were predicted in assaults or slower heavies using ATMs.

Mediums can dictate range to the majority of targets.
Assaults can't.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

dwwolf, on 19 June 2019 - 11:54 AM, said:

The real problems were predicted in assaults or slower heavies using ATMs.

Mediums can dictate range to the majority of targets.
Assaults can't.

the real problem is that somebody can't come up with the lore way & right way (in this case both can be done at the same time) to do ATMs: different and switchable ammo.

the rest I can totally blame on the playerbase. when I would be eaten-up by ATMs over and over again, -I- would think about ways to counter them. getting to cover can be done easily, equipping an AMS or 7 is NO WORK AT ALL. yet.. they don't. and complain.
I think it comes down to a view of life in general, at least in games. in ANY game you get good by analysing where your problems are and overcoming them eventually.
here, all I see is 'cry cry cry, you gotta change things, cause I can't be bothered to come up with a solution'

[lovely-alfajores-0acb13]

dwwolf, on 19 June 2019 - 11:54 AM, said:

The real problems were predicted in assaults or slower heavies using ATMs.

Mediums can dictate range to the majority of targets.
Assaults can't.

Although LRMs and ATMs can absolutely work for assaults, I highly highly recommend that you don’t unless you have a team setup to cover you. At least for solo queue. Heavies are fine for missiles imo. The timberwolf, mad dog, QuickDraw (IV-4), archer, and even the Thanatos are great mechs for that. They have a good amount of armor, plenty of tonnage, and most importantly speed to keep up with the nascar. If you really must insist on using a lrm/atm assault for solo queue, then use the faster ones like MCII and Supernova. I find missiles to be pretty viable on these since they can both reach 60+ kph and enough tonnage for backup weapons. Anything below that is really a bad idea.

Edited by E X I L E, 19 June 2019 - 02:44 PM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

E X I L E, on 19 June 2019 - 02:38 PM, said:

If you really must insist on using a lrm/atm assault for solo queue, then just don't.

fixed that for you

[The6thMessenger]

E X I L E, on 19 June 2019 - 11:29 AM, said:

I think you are missing the point of the thread exclusively regarding the ATM range nerfs.

The good players will of course pull in the same numbers because they know how to learn and adapt with the changes. They were never the concern. The issue is with players who refuse to do the same and cry for nerf after nerf after nerf after nerf. Missiles as a whole have already been hit pretty hard with the nerf bat last last patch with AMS absolutely gutting them now, and ECM making it take centuries to get a lock on. Not to mention missiles like LRMs and ATMs having dead ranges, but they also are useless on maps with lots of cover. There is literally a number of counters. The players who keep proceeding to cry for nerfs are the same ones who refuse to use any of these things.

The fact that you are still able to pull in the same numbers just proves that the range reduction has done absolutely NOTHING to mitigate the "oppressiveness" of ATMs. Because that was never the problem to begin with. All it has done is punish good players who know how to use these weapon systems to their full potential. My guess is those who asked for the nerfs were hoping that it would artificially boost their stats on the leaderboards. Surprise surprise, it has not changed a damn thing. They are still getting recked by ATMs. Still refusing to use AMS/ECM/cover. Still refuse to adapt. And still haven't learned anything.

What more does PGI have to do until these players learn to adapt on their own? Should they nerf ATMs even further because they are still getting recked by them even after the changes? Should they increase the dead range to 500m? Should they nerf the damage down to 1 at all ranges, so they are basically LRMs? Should they remove their ability to lock on and make them completely dumb fire?

Simply nerfing is not the right way to solve problems.

I don't get it, you have exactly the same conclusions.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 19 June 2019 - 02:30 PM, said:

the real problem is that somebody can't come up with the lore way & right way (in this case both can be done at the same time) to do ATMs: different and switchable ammo.

....

here, all I see is 'cry cry cry, you gotta change things, cause I can't be bothered to come up with a solution'

Totally. They dug their own graves with poor weapon implementation, just because they can't be bothered in fixing their engine. And if they really couldn't do it with CryEngine, what they should have done is transferred to Unreal Engine.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 June 2019 - 03:32 PM.

[lovely-alfajores-0acb13]

The6thMessenger, on 19 June 2019 - 03:31 PM, said:

I don't get it, you have exactly the same conclusions.



Totally. They dug their own graves with poor weapon implementation, just because they can't be bothered in fixing their engine. And if they really couldn't do it with CryEngine, what they should have done is transferred to Unreal Engine.

Oh wait a minute, you're the one who actually made that thread. LOL

My bad, I thought you were arguing for the opposite. But yeah, idk man. Personally, I've never had a problem with missiles. Does it stink to get focused down by a heavy lurm team? Oh yeah, for sure. But I can't fault the lurm boats if I don't bring any defense of my own to counter it, like AMS or ECM.

My only suggestion to PGI is to make AMS available to all mechs. I think that would incentivize enough players on every team to equip at least 1 AMS, ultimately bringing enough to cover the entire team. Making it exclusive to certain mechs kind of defeats the purpose.

Edited by E X I L E, 19 June 2019 - 11:44 PM.

[crazytimes]

E X I L E, on 19 June 2019 - 11:41 PM, said:

Does it stink to get focused down by a heavy lurm team? Oh yeah, for sure. But I can't fault the lurm boats if I don't bring any defense of my own to counter it, like AMS or ECM.

My only suggestion to PGI is to make AMS available to all mechs. I think that would incentivize enough players on every team to equip at least 1 AMS, ultimately bringing enough to cover the entire team. Making it exclusive to certain mechs kind of defeats the purpose.

My only annoyance with lrms lately has been there are a number of mechs where the cockpit frame blocks sightlines to UAVs in medium laser range. Would help if more people shot UAVs down.

I haven't rolled out my ATM mechs yet. Been hammering MRMs before they are nerfed in the next patch or two.

[Willard Phule]

Khobai, on 19 June 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:

ATM damage is still as dumb as ever. 3 damage per missile is still broken.

The current model of how the ATMs operate is an amalgamation of multiple ammo types....since PGI can't do swappable ammo. ATMs are supposed to have one type of ammunition that reaches further than LRMs and one that's got the extra damage for up close like SRMs. PGI decided to take parts of each and come up with their own.

[The6thMessenger]

Willard Phule, on 20 June 2019 - 06:22 AM, said:

The current model of how the ATMs operate is an amalgamation of multiple ammo types....since PGI can't do swappable ammo. ATMs are supposed to have one type of ammunition that reaches further than LRMs and one that's got the extra damage for up close like SRMs. PGI decided to take parts of each and come up with their own.

We know.

Still stupid though. Not the 3-damage part, just all functionality in one.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 20 June 2019 - 06:55 AM.