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1.5S Cd On All Ac5/lb5


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#1 LordNothing

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 05:40 PM

all these guns are weak and need a buff.

lb5s and cac5 have never been good.
is ac5s used to be good when we had monster quirks, but are terrible now unless boated 4+.
they are all directly inferior to uac5.

best buff i could imagine would be a 1.5s cd. this is similar to the buff the lb/ac10 has over the base cd of the uac10, so there is precedent. buffing other areas like velocity or crit chance doesn't make sense. buffing lb spread does not improve the weak position of the ac5 and will render it the worst of the 5 class (especially for clan).

to avoid a direct buff to high gun count ac5 boats, reduce gh limit to 5, possibly 4. i don't think this is necessary on the lb5 due to spread. it also gives you a reason to choose lb5 over ac5 in boating situations as it fits the low heat niche.

Edited by LordNothing, 21 June 2019 - 05:42 PM.


#2 The6thMessenger

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 05:49 PM

Eh, I prefer 1.4s. Needs drastic buff to get back into common interest.

#3 LordNothing

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 05:56 PM

perhaps, but i based the 1.5 of the same 10% cd buff the lb10/ac10 has over the uac10. this actually comes out to 1.494, which i rounded to 1.5.

#4 The6thMessenger

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 06:04 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 21 June 2019 - 05:56 PM, said:

perhaps, but i based the 1.5 of the same 10% cd buff the lb10/ac10 has over the uac10. this actually comes out to 1.494, which i rounded to 1.5.


Wasn't that the meh-ac5-syndrome there even before the 10% AC10 family CD buff?

#5 LordNothing

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 06:06 PM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 21 June 2019 - 06:04 PM, said:


Wasn't that the meh-ac5-syndrome there even before the 10% AC10 family CD buff?


i think it came from the reduction of mega quirks that the is used to have. there were a lot of strong ac5 mechs and so it appeared to be better than it was. on the clan side the cac5 has never even been a contender. the uac5 is the same tonnage and isnt really that hot to warrant the ac5 for the low heat role.

Edited by LordNothing, 21 June 2019 - 06:07 PM.


#6 The6thMessenger

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 06:10 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 21 June 2019 - 06:06 PM, said:


i think it came from the reduction of mega quirks that the is used to have. there were a lot of strong ac5 mechs and so it appeared to be better than it was. on the clan side the cac5 has never even been a contender. the uac5 is the same tonnage and isnt really that hot to warrant the ac5 for the low heat role.


So what I am saying is that, it's going to need more than 10% CD buff, because even before it needed a buff, and if anything that 10% CD buff for the AC10 just made it a worse choice.

#7 LordNothing

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 06:14 PM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 21 June 2019 - 06:10 PM, said:


So what I am saying is that, it's going to need more than 10% CD buff, because even before it needed a buff, and if anything that 10% CD buff for the AC10 just made it a worse choice.


im not totally against a 1.4s cd. but i think id do a gh limit of 4 in that case (its going to make boats really strong). its probably also better to over shoot so you can bracket a final value. so ac5s are meta for awhile.

Edited by LordNothing, 21 June 2019 - 06:15 PM.


#8 The6thMessenger

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 06:16 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 21 June 2019 - 06:14 PM, said:


im not totally against a 1.4s cd. but i think id do a gh limit of 4 in that case (its going to make boats really strong). its probably also better to over shoot so you can bracket a final value. so ac5s are meta for awhile.


.... that would only really affect the really heavy ones, but less so for the lighter ones. I mean what other mechs could boat 5 to 6 AC5s - or CAC5s effectively?

Direwolf and Annihilator, that is it.

#9 LordNothing

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 12:14 PM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 21 June 2019 - 06:16 PM, said:


.... that would only really affect the really heavy ones, but less so for the lighter ones. I mean what other mechs could boat 5 to 6 AC5s - or CAC5s effectively?

Direwolf and Annihilator, that is it.


the annihilator is the big one. the cac/lb5 dire still wouldn't have nothing on the ultraviolet. 21 dps vs 24 before skills/quirks.

Edited by LordNothing, 22 June 2019 - 12:14 PM.


#10 FupDup

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 12:16 PM

Do you member when the AC/5 did actually have a cooldown of 1.5 seconds?

I member. :(

#11 JediPanther

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 12:20 PM

Pnt-10p all ballistics are good again. Just dump 20 to mobility and 70 into fire power.

#12 LordNothing

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 12:21 PM

View PostFupDup, on 22 June 2019 - 12:16 PM, said:

Do you member when the AC/5 did actually have a cooldown of 1.5 seconds?

I member. Posted Image


well it needs something now, even if you have to drop the gh threshold all the way down to 3 to keep boats in check. i mean id rather pack a rac2 or a light gauss than an ac5, and thats saying something because neither of those are exceptionally strong.

Edited by LordNothing, 22 June 2019 - 12:23 PM.


#13 Nightbird

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 12:25 PM

No, only the 2's are the outlier, with too high dps/tone and dps/heat. The 5/10/20 are balanced against each other with alpha and range trade-offs.

#14 LordNothing

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 12:27 PM

View PostNightbird, on 22 June 2019 - 12:25 PM, said:

No, only the 2's are the outlier, with too high dps/tone and dps/heat. The 5/10/20 are balanced against each other with alpha and range trade-offs.


il admit the uac5 is well balanced. but you cant say the lb5s and cac5 have ever been relevant.

the 2s are in a good place i think. though ive never felt the double tap mechanic worked for the uac2s. id rather they just make the cooldown like 0.36 and just roll the jam every shot, then tweak jam chance till it falls into line. granted i wouldn't mind if they stay in their current state, as they are great on lights and mediums. fury <3

Edited by LordNothing, 22 June 2019 - 12:38 PM.


#15 FupDup

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 12:29 PM

View PostNightbird, on 22 June 2019 - 12:25 PM, said:

No, only the 2's are the outlier, with too high dps/tone and dps/heat. The 5/10/20 are balanced against each other with alpha and range trade-offs.

If anything the AC/2 is the one that is the closest one to being balanced since it sees some actual meta application (even if only in Solaris or on the Ultravoilent hero mech). The others kinda suck in their own ways, especially the AC/20 with its velocity being so slow that it's almost unusable.

#16 Nightbird

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 12:41 PM

View PostFupDup, on 22 June 2019 - 12:29 PM, said:

If anything the AC/2 is the one that is the closest one to being balanced since it sees some actual meta application (even if only in Solaris or on the Ultravoilent hero mech). The others kinda suck in their own ways, especially the AC/20 with its velocity being so slow that it's almost unusable.


Which means if you brought AC5/10/20 up to the AC2s level, all laser and missiles would become UP and need to be buffed...

#17 FupDup

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 12:46 PM

View PostNightbird, on 22 June 2019 - 12:41 PM, said:

Which means if you brought AC5/10/20 up to the AC2s level, all laser and missiles would become UP and need to be buffed...

That hypothetical situation implies that the AC 5/10/20 are currently as good as most missile and laser weapons. They currently are not. They are generally worse, excluding the CAC/10 and the AC/2 of both sides (which have some actual applications).

Even the "mighty" AC/2 is mostly a niche weapon (for boating on high-end assaults).

#18 LordNothing

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 01:22 PM

the ac2 has a huge bar to entry which pretty much limits it to heavies and assaults. though with quirks a pair can be viable on a medium like the blackjack. its the same "only viable when boated" problem that plagues a lot of ballistics. makes me think we should have recoil induced spread, or ghost spread if you will. use a lot of guns, lose precision. maybe ghost cd. and wheres my lac?

Edited by LordNothing, 22 June 2019 - 01:22 PM.


#19 Prototelis

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 01:40 PM

View PostNightbird, on 22 June 2019 - 12:41 PM, said:


Which means if you brought AC5/10/20 up to the AC2s level, all laser and missiles would become UP and need to be buffed...


BUFF ALL THE THINGS.

These are the end days!

#20 Nightbird

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 03:10 PM

View PostPrototelis, on 22 June 2019 - 01:40 PM, said:

BUFF ALL THE THINGS.

These are the end days!


Yes... make a small laser instagib an Atlas, sounds fun doesn't it





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