29 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

I just remembered, Clan mechs have CASE by default. As opposed of IS mechs that would surely suffer when their ammo/gauss explodes, and deals much of their damage to CT.

What's the point of Gauss Explosions again? I mean chances are, unless you're an incompetent half-wit, you'd probably dealt most of your damage when you got stripped.

Is the gauss-explosion supposed to be a balancing factor between Tech-Bases? I don't think it is because it's not exactly played the entire time. It's not like Clan-Gauss has lower projectile speed that actively makes it a worse choice.

IIRC, Clan Gauss has 100% chance of explosion when crit, IS Gauss has 90% chance of explosion when crit. Honestly, to me, both are practically the same, only the IS is much more disparaged because their CASE isn't free, and to that end, I fail to see the point of 100% Explosion Chance for Clan Gauss as tech-base balance, because the CASE they have by default mitigates this almost entirely.

[FupDup]

Gauss explosion is a holdover from TT. It does make some sense because it's a counterbalance to the fact that Gauss ammo does not explode. It would be a little unfair to all the other ammo-based weapons that have some explodability. I just think the HP should be increased and the explosion damage reduced so that it's not as much of a liability to mount Gauss in torso sections.

As for the 100% explosion rate on the Clan GR, it's justified not for balancing reasons but because having explosions handled randomly is just stupid. I think the IS GR should also be 100% because of how much I hate RNG, but as said above the health would be increased and the damage of the explosion would be decreased (thus it would be a large net buff). I also think ammo explosions should be 100% but with lower damage, because RNGesus is the devil.

[justcallme A S H]

The6thMessenger, on 22 June 2019 - 10:07 PM, said:

IIRC, Clan Gauss has 100% chance of explosion when crit, IS Gauss has 90% chance of explosion when crit. Honestly, to me, both are practically the same,

Except they are not.

I can regularly be open and not lose a IS Gauss.

cGauss, whole other story. Which is why I'm rarely a fan of torso mounted cGauss because it's basically instant torso loss soon as it's open. Given hitreg of LBXs and ERPPCs can easily backreg you'll then lose the torso if running low back armour like most sane people or even team damage.

So yeah it's very much different.

If anything IS should 80% just because of the sheer tonnage disparity between the two weapons.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 22 June 2019 - 10:55 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

justcallme A S H, on 22 June 2019 - 10:52 PM, said:

Except they are not.

I can regularly be open and not lose a IS Gauss.

...

So how does that work? Explosions only come into play when gauss is crit. If you managed to not lose your IS gauss the entire game, what's the point?

Do you mean if it's open, you rarely explode? Because 90% is still pretty high of a chance, how is 10% of chance translate to what is basically majority of your experience when you are open at a component?

If we're using experiences as example, when I'm open, my gauss explodes at a pretty much guarantee. If anything those times that they don't, is lucky.

If as you said, you aren't a fan to cGauss to the torso, maybe it's a question of the arms not being critted that frequently as a result of being less hit in the first place.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 22 June 2019 - 11:19 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Don't forget crit chance from skill maze plays a part in the IS part I believe.

I have been orange/red torso and not lost IS Gauss to to RNG, basically.

[The6thMessenger]

justcallme A S H, on 22 June 2019 - 11:19 PM, said:

Don't forget crit chance from skill maze plays a part in the IS part I believe.

I have been orange/red torso and not lost IS Gauss to to RNG, basically.

The thing with RNG is that it blesses some, and curses others. So it's really hard to gauge anything.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

The whole crit system just needs to be defenestrated and reworked. Pure RNG is a pisspoor way of handling equipment loss; it would be far better if crit chance were controlled- or at least affected- by remaining structure HP. Component performance should also degrade as each system is damaged, rather than simply being 100% effective until completely destroyed. Range should be a factor in crit rolls. Equipment like TCs, Artemis, CC, and Active Probes should also play a role. In order to build a 'Mech around generating massive crits, you should really need to invest in it.

I mean, it'll never happen, and the "everything should be just like TT!" bunch would cry a salty river, but still. It should happen. Alphas are big enough that crits just don't need to play a role in most builds, and the current crit mechanics degrade match quality because it is entirely too easy to be turned into a stick with 50% or more of your health remaining- even if you've spread your weapons across multiple components. It's incredibly annoying with the current prevalence of crit-heavy weapons.

On the other hand, LBX boating has never been more satisfying. The whole weapon class used to just be terribad. I just wish that PGI was better able to find a happy medium between "this bloody thing is useless" and "&*$%, all my weapons got critted in one volley again!"

[Vxheous]

justcallme A S H, on 22 June 2019 - 11:19 PM, said:

Don't forget crit chance from skill maze plays a part in the IS part I believe.

I have been orange/red torso and not lost IS Gauss to to RNG, basically.

It's completely RNG, couple weeks ago, I made the mistake of bringing a Warhammer 6R into our ISC grim plexis practice. First poke I made, I ate a 5 ERLL alpha from Bows3r and Adette to my left torso at the same time, broke armor, turned torso yellow, boom gauss exploded. Ended that match at 92 damage or something.

[Tarogato]

You're forgetting HP, too.

Clan Gauss has 5HP, and IS Gauss has 10HP.

The explosion chance doesn't kick in until the weapon is actually reduced to 0HP and thus "destroyed", and then it will have a chance to blow up in your face or not. This is why HGauss is relatively hardy, with its 15HP and Clan Gauss seems to explode on a whim compared to IS Gauss.

That said, I think IS Gauss needs a cooldown un-nerf.

[justcallme A S H]

Taro with the wisdom not many have about MWO.

I had no idea on Equip HP and factors. I actually totally forgot about it. So HP and % RNG combined, IS Gauss can last a while, that explains it nicely.

[The6thMessenger]

justcallme A S H, on 23 June 2019 - 11:58 PM, said:

I had no idea on Equip HP and factors. I actually totally forgot about it. So HP and % RNG combined, IS Gauss can last a while, that explains it nicely.

Well, lasting a while is probably a different league. But then if that's the case, don't we not need the 90% chance explosion? Don't get me wrong, I'm not for nerfing IS Gauss, but maybe the advantage should be put elsewhere, like CD?

it could still be at 100% chance, but my issue is honestly the usability of CASE.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 24 June 2019 - 02:11 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

The6thMessenger, on 24 June 2019 - 02:06 AM, said:

it could still be at 100% chance, but my issue is honestly the usability of CASE.

CASE prevent your CT from following.... the ST.
Say your HBK IIC eats two AC20 shells into the ST (not fully armored) - remaining structure after the second hit 8.
Gauss goes up - and 12 points would went into the CT (is it halfed because of damage transfer? In this case its only 6 points)

[LordNothing]

crits seem like voodoo to me so i tend to try not to think about them. all i know is that if i shoot mechs sometimes they explode.

[Karl Streiger]

LordNothing, on 24 June 2019 - 03:18 AM, said:

crits seem like voodoo to me so i tend to try not to think about them. all i know is that if i shoot mechs sometimes they explode.

And it doesn't look good anymore, as it was when you could watch the ammunition brew up.

[The6thMessenger]

Karl Streiger, on 24 June 2019 - 02:26 AM, said:

CASE prevent your CT from following.... the ST.
Say your HBK IIC eats two AC20 shells into the ST (not fully armored) - remaining structure after the second hit 8.
Gauss goes up - and 12 points would went into the CT (is it halfed because of damage transfer? In this case its only 6 points)

My point exactly. What's the point of a particularly volatile Gauss, when it comes with CASE instead, as supposedly a balancing factor? The CASE means the CT won't be harmed anyways, despite the 100% explosion chance. In comparison, the IS Gauss has 90% chance of explosion, and has a less-useful gauss that compromises builds, which means players are less likely to use it and thereby suffer the CT-directed damage.

With that in mind, I don't see the point of CGauss volatility when they have CASE as tech-balancing flavor. That is not to say "do away with the gauss explosion", no but i think we should just give both Clan and IS Gauss 100% explosion chance, and just properly nerf Clan Gauss.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 24 June 2019 - 05:43 AM.

[Michael Knell]

Gauss exploding is a bunch of bolloney with current gauss firing mechanic of charging the shot.

Way back before, gauss didn't have to be charged by the player, it was just point and shoot. Because gauss was considered precharged, exploding when critted was fine.

Nowadays, since you have to charge the gauss, there is no need for the explosion as the weapon is not holding the charge, ready for firing.

[Prototelis]

If were going to go there;

It doesn't make sense that gauss generates heat only when fired and not also at some point during cool down.

[FupDup]

Prototelis, on 24 June 2019 - 01:35 PM, said:

If were going to go there;

It doesn't make sense that gauss generates heat only when fired and not also at some point during cool down.

If Gauss was always in a pre-charged state then it would probably generate some amount of constant heat.

[Karl Streiger]

Well the Gauss is a strange snowflake and PGIs strange following the tabletop stats rammed the ship right unto the very first sandbank from day one.

Consider it from this angle. The AC5, PPC combo is as effective as the Gauss when put into the same location.
although it haa slower velocity, less range and much more heat. Crits and weight are identical.

The only draw back of the gauss was that it could explode and thus was not an event that did hapoen often, at the beginning.
With the right design decision - Gauss=10heat you could have prevented a lot of those endless and unnecessary balance changes.

[Vxheous]

Karl Streiger, on 25 June 2019 - 12:13 AM, said:

Well the Gauss is a strange snowflake and PGIs strange following the tabletop stats rammed the ship right unto the very first sandbank from day one.

Consider it from this angle. The AC5, PPC combo is as effective as the Gauss when put into the same location.
although it haa slower velocity, less range and much more heat. Crits and weight are identical.

The only draw back of the gauss was that it could explode and thus was not an event that did hapoen often, at the beginning.
With the right design decision - Gauss=10heat you could have prevented a lot of those endless and unnecessary balance changes.

LOL, 10 heat for gauss, you are out of your f*#king mind. I would take 1 heat + exploding gauss rifle over 10 heat gauss 100% of the time. Gauss is a 17 ton investment (15 tons + 2 tons ammo), 10 heat gauss makes the weapon system DOA. No one would use it at all.