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The Hellfire-1 Feels Gawdawfull To Pilot


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#1 Clay Endfield

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 11:37 PM

1st post. Whoopie. Regardless, onto the matter at hand: the Hellfire-1: is it a bad mech?

I'm far from the most experienced pilot, so while I lack the authority required to validate a subjective verdict, I do have to say: this mech is the pits.

I can get just about any other mech to work for me, from Gargoyles to Crabs, from Urbies to Orions, to Banshees: I've gotten fairly decent at identifying a mech's strengths and tailoring builds to capitalize on those strengths. Learning how to play specific mechs to their strengths takes some time, but I've gradually gotten better at it. Enough to the point that I just have to say: regardless of my experience or lack thereof, I feel pretty confidant when I state that the Hellfire is an objectively terrible mech.

Here's couple of things that I noticed about the Hellfire; specifically the H-1.

1. It has a lot of hardpoints that can be abused for EXTREMELY powerful builds.

2. It's a 60 ton Clan heavy, which means it gets crappy clan skill scaling from the survival and firepower trees.

3. It's made of glass. This mech gets ripped to shreds faster than anything else I've played.

4. Despite being a 60 ton clan mech, thew Hellfire-1 is painfully slow compared to other clan heavies. Even with MASC, the Hellfire can only pull ahead for a brief spurt, before every other clan heavy catches up and passes it by.

5. The geometry of this mech is atrocious; it's as wide as a barn door, and all of its components are proportionately wide and easily identified. To top it off, this mech isn't exactly small; it's actually quite large, being fairly even in scale to an 80-ton assault. Picking this thing apart is as easy as shucking corn cobs.

6. Despite having a generous amount Hardpoints, most of the energy hardpoints populate in some absolutely terrible locations; namely the arms, which are spread far apart and grossly overly under-slung. To make matters worse, the arms are typically the first thing to disappear in a firefight.

7. Despite being designed to run Heavy Lasers and ATMs, the Hellfire has neither the speed nor the bulk required to fight effectively at close range; or to tolerate/avoid the trades that come with the required Heavy Laser Duration/ATM lock-on face time. The best weapons to run on this mech are ER-PPCs and LRMs, and there's a plethora of other mechs out there that run such long-range sets far better.

8. The Linebacker is five tons heavier, smaller, geometrically more compact, faster, more durable, has better hardpoint locations, and can run almost every CQC set that the Hellfire can. What's with that?

If you try to build for Heavy Lasers or ATMs, you're going to have a bad time is this thing. If you build for range, you'll just be playing a sub optimum LRM/PPC boat. The two builds I've ran both used 280 XLs, and varied from a 3x ATM-9, TAG, 5x Small Heavy Laser brawler; to a 2x Heavy Large, 4x Heavy Medium Fire Support mech. Despite achieving over 50% heat efficiency on both builds with full equipment support (Clan Active Probe for ATMs; T-COMP for Lasers), the Hellfire came up dreadfully short in both suits. This thing is absolutely miserable to pilot, and after having piloted an unskilled Gargoyle-E with 10x Micro-Pulse & 4x Heavy Mediums (and making it work like a champ with practice), I think I might have more than an inkling about what a miserable mech feels like to pilot.

All in all, I feel like PGI really skimped on the Hellfire's Quirks. Those tiny structure buffs do nothing to compensate for the mech's awful hitboxes and geometry; let alone provide it with the bulk required to properly utilize ATMs and Heavy Lasers. The speed limitation doesn't help at all either; I'm beginning to think that a larger engine (the max in the Hellfire-1 is a 295) may be in order; but even so, I don't think the speed increase is going to compensate for the Helfire's numerous shortcomings either.

What I really think the Hellfire needs is a Nova-esqe volumetric re-scaling. Making it smaller would counter its gawdawful hitboxes/geometry; plus adding some heftier structure/armor quirks would actually allow it to run its designated ATM/Heavy Lasers sets. If its going to be that slow, it should have some additional armor to take hits with. But it needs some serious attention if its ever going to compete with every other clan heavy out there.

Do you guys have any suggestions on how to play/build a Hellfire competitively? Or do you share my opinion of it needing an overhaul?

#2 Ruccus

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 02:00 AM

While a 10% quirk might sound useful, remember it's heavy laser duration not cooldown. You're only shaving off 0.155 seconds off the HLL and 0.145 seconds off the HML. Your ATM build has you using ATMs or heavy lasers, rarely both, so it's not a huge damage dealer unless you can keep the enemy in the ATM effective range. Your heavy laser build doesn't have a very long range meaning you have to get inside 270m to do serious damage and against an enemy who can effectively torso twist to spread damage during the heavy lasers' long burn time you'll be picked apart by more brawl-centric weaponry.

I don't own a Hellfire but just doing a bit of theorycrafting I figure this HLF-1 build should work. It's got a reasonable 51 point pinpoint alpha strike at 400m with the lasers and the triple SRM4s will help in brawling situations. You also have to remember that it's a 60 ton mech - barely a heavy so there will be plenty of mechs on the battlefield that are carrying more weight and can cave in your torso pretty quickly.

Another option would be something like this. 6xMPL is a standard decent build on many mechs, with the 3xSRM4s adding a bit extra punch up close. The MPL build doesn't have the range of the first build though, so you might want to try that first, staying on the second line in the first half of the match and getting closer to add in the SRM4s later in the match when there are holes in the enemies' armour.

#3 Pfuscher1

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 06:05 AM

The Hellfire 1 is one of the very few mechs that are hard to optimize in the lab.

Only quirks are Heavy Lasers, those TAKE A LOT OF SPACE
Because of the "small" engine the mech has a lot of tonnage but NOT MUCH SPACE.

HLL are a waste of weapon anyway. HML are ok but also space taking.

So you either throw away 2(1,9) tons with ferro or use other weapons.

#4 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 02:06 AM

I've bought 3 Hellfires during the sale and honestly ... I'm rather positively surprised. It is surely not a newbie-friendly mech, but a clan battlemech is still a clan battlemech, the ability to have ES/FF and whichever rate engine you want is kinda priceless.

First and foremost imho ... do NOT put any energy and ballistic weapons in torsoes. It literally makes your side torso hitbox twice as big due to ret@rded size of the gun in em, even if its a tag laser its still gonna be a huge gun hitbox half the size of the entire mech. Frontal hitbox profile is rather bad, its basically a barn, but side profile (given you don't have energy/ballistic in LT/RT) is actually rather good since arms become good shields for torsoes. Hellfire is obviously not a good brawler given its hitboxes, but if you move all the time and use bursts of masc you can spread damage at ranges about 350m and more really well. The lowest I've managed so far was about 18% total health with all weapons still intact.

I've bought the "1", the "A" and the "C", put either XL290s or XL300 in them ("C" has higher engine cap) and then dumped lots of missiles (3SSRM6s, 4ATM9s and 4LRM15s). LRM boat is obviously good since it has good heat management and actually decent speed to effectively flank (~85kph with bursts of 102kph on masc) and doesn't need to facetank. But surprisingly the ATM boat that I try to put as much into the under 270m range as possible is also good even given fighting up close. The reason for that is quite simple ... with 3 damage per ATM missile and 32 missile per volley you are almost guaranteed to wreck whatever you are shooting way more than it wrecks you. Obviously assaults you need to poke carefully, but again, nearly 100 kph speed and masc help with that a lot, you can simply move around them to a flanking position where they'll have hard time turning to. Personally I always put TAG in the right arm, then go and poke from the corner, TAG something right away when only your arm is exposed, lock the target by the time your mech is 2/3 exposed and already hitting brakes, and then fire away a volley right on your way backwards to cover. By the time your volley reaches a target you should already be safely behind cover.

The Streak boat so far seems to be worse, it has 4HMLs as well, but it still lacks alpha damage to make assaults and heavies really scared. However the heavy laser duration quirk is very noticable and a lot of heavies and assaults with open yellow components are going to be surprised by you taking those components out with just one burn of yellow lasers. Obviously lights are not gonna like you either. 3SSRM6s is usually enough to open something and additional 40 damage of HMLs, even spread on a light, is usually enough to take that open something out right after. If its a leg or a side torso, well ... gg.

Overall the power of Hellfire comes from it being a battlemech. For a 60 tonner you can really put a LOT of weaponry into it. 4LRM15s and backup lasers with plenty of ammo is a config for an Awesome on the IS side in comparision, thats 20 tons heavier. And with ~300 engines it is mobile enough to be an effective flanker and support mech. Just don't forget to share that armor too, its not a very good tank, but it can still take a lot of punishment if you use your speed right and twist away.

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 16 July 2019 - 02:08 AM.


#5 The Caterpillar

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 06:44 PM

The Hellfire-A is the only 'mech that can comfortably fit the highest (non-ATM or RL) alpha in the game at 128 damage, while going 88kph average (with MASC and speed tweak) and 102 max.

STD armor
ENDO structure
4 heavy medium lasers
4 SRM-6 w/2 tons ammo
1 UAC/20 w/2 tons ammo
XL 280
MASC
5 DHS

In my experience, people simply aren't prepared for the amount of damage this thing can put out in such a short time. It can alpha twice in a row with an enhanced coolshot for 256 damage, assuming no jam.

The downside is that the build requires good heat management skills and close-quarters peeking. Only fire the heavy mediums during an alpha or when out of combat (for snapshots and UAV's).

#6 Tesunie

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 08:22 AM

View PostThe Caterpillar, on 20 September 2019 - 06:44 PM, said:

The Hellfire-A is the only 'mech that can comfortably fit the highest (non-ATM or RL) alpha in the game at 128 damage, while going 88kph average (with MASC and speed tweak) and 102 max.

STD armor
ENDO structure
4 heavy medium lasers
4 SRM-6 w/2 tons ammo
1 UAC/20 w/2 tons ammo
XL 280
MASC
5 DHS


I just wanted to say that I don't have a Hellfire A, but I do have the 1. Your build looked interesting, so I decided to see if I could make something along the same theme as your build on my own.

I will say, originally my Hellfire 1 was loaded up with 4 (or 5?) ERMLs and 2 LPLs, which I was unsatisfied with. It worked, but not as well as I would like and was a little warmer than I prefer. (Though it did play into that mid range I normally play well in.)

My new build inspired by your idea now has 4 ERMLs and a single LPL, backed by 3 SRM6s. I notice more firepower and it tends to run cooler, especially at the opening mid ranges, and gets deadlier as you close into SRM ranges.

Figured I'd post letting you know you inspired someone else with your build. Yours certainly is more of a bruiser in close combat, but different variants and such.

Edited by Tesunie, 23 September 2019 - 08:23 AM.


#7 The Caterpillar

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 08:11 PM

View PostTesunie, on 23 September 2019 - 08:22 AM, said:


Figured I'd post letting you know you inspired someone else with your build. Yours certainly is more of a bruiser in close combat, but different variants and such.


Good to hear! I was kicking myself for resurrecting an old thread (I didn't notice the last post date until after I posted). Glad that some good came of it.





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