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How To Stop Nascar (Or Make It Occur Less Often)


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#1 admiralbenbow123

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 04:30 AM

We all know what nascar is in MWO and we all hate it. A few days ago I've noticed something: whenever someone complains about nascar they usually say that "their team is running away from the enemy as if they are afraid to scratch their paint". With this information in mind we can say that nascar happens when people are afraid to take damage and automatically run to the right (because most players are right-handed) to avoid contact with the enemy. But why are people afraid to take damage? After quite a long time of playing various mech chassis I can say that a lot of them have low survivability because of easy to define or simply large hitboxes, low armor, or even both, as well as low mobility in some cases, which often results in situations where you can receive a huge amount of damage even by accidentally exposing yourself to the enemy team for a few seconds, which is why a lot of people are afraid of taking damage. Has anyone wondered why there was less nascar before the introduction of new civil war tech? It was because of higher time to kill in comparison to what we have now. So, here is my way of potentially reducing the amount of nascar: increasing TTK by giving mechs more survivability by buffing the armor hardening (and maybe skeleton density) nodes and introducing more survival quirks for both IS and Clan mechs. If all the mechs gain a survivability buff a lot less people will be scared to take damage and will stop nascaring.

Edited by admiralbenbow123, 27 June 2019 - 04:30 AM.


#2 Satans Pooper

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 08:13 AM

Map design has something to do with it too.

Maps wont change, so it is up to the playerbase to compensate.

Calling out an opponent for a 1v1 in QP has stopped the Rotato-Potato cold I have found.
Often the OpFor player doesn't respond or refuses my batchall, but there is no Nascar because everyone on both teams rallies to the designated gridsquare to see the (potential) honor duel. (and perhaps to gain advantageous position for a backstab)

Just an idea from my experience on how to curb the rotational tendencies of the average potato.

#3 OZHomerOZ

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 01:05 AM

View Postadmiralbenbow123, on 27 June 2019 - 04:30 AM, said:


......... we all hate it...........



NACSAR is fine, just fine Posted Image

#4 Tesunie

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 10:22 AM

View Postadmiralbenbow123, on 27 June 2019 - 04:30 AM, said:

Has anyone wondered why there was less nascar before the introduction of new civil war tech? It was because of higher time to kill in comparison to what we have now. So, here is my way of potentially reducing the amount of nascar: increasing TTK by giving mechs more survivability by buffing the armor hardening (and maybe skeleton density) nodes and introducing more survival quirks for both IS and Clan mechs. If all the mechs gain a survivability buff a lot less people will be scared to take damage and will stop nascaring.


And before the Clans came in, we had more dispursed fighting, with far more lines and plugging narrow sections of maps, and using other sections to try and get behind people. We also had maps that where different and not so circular (AKA; balanced), such as Classic Forest and Frozen (which are back). If you notice, those two maps you can't NASCar so well on (though people do try). We also had Classic Therma, with those tight passes into the center (which now everyone misses after complaining about for years). Caustic also had more ridges and wider game play, because ranges where shorter and mechs typically where slower.

With every piece of new tech we normally see weapons that either hit even harder (H.Gauss and ATMs), or have even longer ranges (CERLL, CERPPC, to some extent Gauss). These change game play to different extremes. With the Clan introduction, the range game became the thing, with long range lasers tearing IS units apart before they could even retaliate, while hitting harder with better cooling because of smaller DHS (meaning they could fit more in). With Civil war, we have ATMs within their 3 damage bracket dealing rather massive amounts of damage and H.Gauss which, when fired in a pair, deal 50 pin point damage... And image back in the day we had issues with dual AC20s which was only 40 damage... And lasers weren't even added into that! Most Dual H. Gauss builds also carry a fair number of MLs, making that 50 damage pin point alpha into an even higher amount, like 60-70 even...

Then, maps have changed over time. People complained about the old maps (and the new ones too). So they got revamped (impart because they where too small for 12v12 to some extent and for the new ranges of Clan weapons). They became larger, often had a central feature, and was more rounded for "balance". Those large maps that didn't get rounded out (Crimson) ended up having a disparity between spawn sides, leaving one side with an advantage. Other maps, such as Caustic, got "stuff" tossed in for additional cover, to help counter "LRMs", and to be honest also countered those longer ranged weapons that got introduced.


I will comment, placing the "balancing" pieces into the skill tree would be a bad idea (which I think PGI has already made, by increasing reinforced casing to reduce crit chances, rather than decreasing crit chances). This is because it punishes people with unskilled mechs even more so. Sadly, what tech is in the game is already in the game. This means either a universal increase in health, more quirks to counter said weapons, or some limitation on those new weapons (but no one likes nerfs, so buff buff buff to infinity). Either that, or we deal with it as it is, and continue the game as is (which isn't a grossly bad idea either at the moment as nothing seems horribly bad).


So, ultimately, what we would need to counter "Nascar" would be:
- A reworking of maps to increase/decrease flow areas so it's not just around a central piece of the map.
- Have locations on every map where every range can work, with enough (disbursed) sneak around areas people can use to circumvent those sniper areas.
- Make maps that may have more sectional fighting, with more choke points one must pass to get to the next "section". Once more, with enough areas to be able to go through other potential paths.

Sadly, any of these map changes would have people crying about a lack of direct flow of a map and not knowing where to go on a map to "get to the fight quickly". People don't like Polar Highlands in part because of it's lack of a solid central feature and lack of clear pathing to "common fighting areas". These new maps (as suggested) would most likely fall into the same category; unliked because there is no clear path, no central feature, and you can't default to a standard tactic like you do all other maps.


I'll leave with a comment about how I recall fighting on every corner of the older maps. Now, most maps only see action in the central areas. Rarely do the fights happen along the sides of a map. For example, Caustic valley, you no longer see line actions and fighting from the hill/ridges that run along the sides of the map (mostly because they got reduced to a couple of smaller hills).

#5 DropshipPilot

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Posted 06 July 2019 - 08:05 AM

Nascar is good for recent meta mechs, that are fast, take minimal damage and can hit hard.

I played 15 games in a nascar disqualified fafnir last night as a test.
The first 10 games went horrible with an average match score of 167 when playing as PGI rewards and other players expect. I died once with 1 damage to a stealth commando.

Then I played "Surn" style for 7 games in the same mech. People were screaming at me, blaming me for losses, one guy called me a scrub. Match score average went up to 270 overall. Average Match score 7 games 417.

Here is how you break Nascar,
anticipate the enemy nascar and position / hide your slow mech where the enemy team will be exposing their back to you once they switch sides. Create a double envelopment with you taking the place of the fast mech trying to get behind the enemy.

When the players on your team complain, ignore them. They just want you to waste your mech and armor to slow the enemy nascar to give them free back shots AT YOUR EXPENSE. You are returning the favor.

Occassionally, an enemy team will spot you, but then they have to break Nascar and send 2-3 mechs after you and they lose as a team in a 9v11. Try to get legs. I specifically use a fafnir dual hg to erase at least one enemy light if they break off to kill you.

A big mech with arm weapons is even better vs lights, mcII or Thany for example.


If your team gets Rick rolled, you still have a powerful mech that can win some matches 1v5.

EXAMPLE 1v3 finish:
Posted Image

Edited by DropshipPilot, 06 July 2019 - 12:33 PM.


#6 Tesunie

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Posted 06 July 2019 - 01:04 PM

View PostDropshipPilot, on 06 July 2019 - 08:05 AM, said:

Nascar is good for recent meta mechs, that are fast, take minimal damage and can hit hard.

I played 15 games in a nascar disqualified fafnir last night as a test.
The first 10 games went horrible with an average match score of 167 when playing as PGI rewards and other players expect. I died once with 1 damage to a stealth commando.

Then I played "Surn" style for 7 games in the same mech. People were screaming at me, blaming me for losses, one guy called me a scrub. Match score average went up to 270 overall. Average Match score 7 games 417.

Here is how you break Nascar,
anticipate the enemy nascar and position / hide your slow mech where the enemy team will be exposing their back to you once they switch sides. Create a double envelopment with you taking the place of the fast mech trying to get behind the enemy.

When the players on your team complain, ignore them. They just want you to waste your mech and armor to slow the enemy nascar to give them free back shots AT YOUR EXPENSE. You are returning the favor.

Occassionally, an enemy team will spot you, but then they have to break Nascar and send 2-3 mechs after you and they lose as a team in a 9v11. Try to get legs. I specifically use a fafnir dual hg to erase at least one enemy light if they break off to kill you.

A big mech with arm weapons is even better vs lights, mcII or Thany for example.


If your team gets Rick rolled, you still have a powerful mech that can win some matches 1v5.

EXAMPLE 1v3 finish:



I'm disregarding your advice, as you are an aim bot hacker. Killed me so many times in FP, and I didn't even see you as a mech pilot.

Wait. What do you mean that you aren't THAT "Dropship"? Posted Image

(Yes. I'm joking about your name. Not being serous at all. I'm sure you've heard the joke already, but I couldn't help myself.)


Overall though, your suggestion can be good for assault mechs when their team NASCars. The trick is to remain hidden long enough and being patent enough to pull it off...

Edited by Tesunie, 06 July 2019 - 01:04 PM.


#7 Surn

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Posted 09 July 2019 - 01:58 AM



Patience and guile



Patience and guile

#8 Georgegad

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 06:12 PM

View PostSatans Pooper, on 27 June 2019 - 08:13 AM, said:

Map design has something to do with it too.

Maps wont change, so it is up to the playerbase to compensate.



Agreed map design has a lot to do with it but do not agree that it can not change.
new maps come and old maps are not available anymore.

In a lot of ways it is also up to the player base to tell designers what they want in a map.

#9 Georgegad

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 06:26 PM

View PostDropshipPilot, on 06 July 2019 - 08:05 AM, said:


Here is how you break Nascar,
anticipate the enemy nascar and position / hide your slow mech where the enemy team will be exposing their back to you once they switch sides. Create a double envelopment with you taking the place of the fast mech trying to get behind the enemy.

When the players on your team complain, ignore them. They just want you to waste your mech and armor to slow the enemy nascar to give them free back shots AT YOUR EXPENSE. You are returning the favor.

Occassionally, an enemy team will spot you, but then they have to break Nascar and send 2-3 mechs after you and they lose as a team in a 9v11. Try to get legs. I specifically use a fafnir dual hg to erase at least one enemy light if they break off to kill you.



That was exactly my tactical response.
I did not find it worked very well though in practice.

I do a lot of damage in the first few seconds and sometimes get a kill but being there puts me alone right in front of them while they nascar into me.

I do a lot of damage, even if I dont make a kill I very badly hurt the first mech that passes my position but then I am the first to die and I quit out to another match. True I get a lot of matches done but it is less satisfying as a game even if I did my fair games damage in those few seconds I was fighting.

#10 Renzor the Red

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Posted 12 July 2019 - 05:30 PM

I don't think anything needs to change with mechs or maps to prevent this. It's just group-think. The meta has shifted to moving fast and doing lots of damage. When two teams collide, pilots who can't/won't approach head-on start trying to flank right, and sometimes everyone starts following. Or, an enemy team starts a Nascar, then everyone starts running away from them, reinforcing it.

The only way to break it is to think outside the box and position yourself somewhere to stop the flow, which can be really hard to do alone, or have your team stop and make a firing line (enough to stop it, anyway), or to cut through the middle and break up the running enemy line, etc. It's terrible, but it's hard to break that herd stampede stuff.

#11 Alloh

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 07:11 AM

I see another problems contributing to Nascar:

1. Nascar vs Nascar. Both teams using same tactics.
--COUNTER: Call out to form firelines. Group up then "slowly nascar Left" as a deathwall hitting nascar's tip. Both tactics work better than use nascar against nascar.

2. Too symmetric maps+gamemodes
--COUNTER: Add asymmetric gamemodes, like FP's Scout and Invasion modes, attack/defend clash.
----Like "Fallen Birds", when one side have damaged dropships to defend or destroy. Dropship turrets should remain active and destructible.
----Another option, "Territory", one team must prevent the other team from taking some position - city, airport, hill, installation or "base". Even give some turrets to defenders. One team spawns inside "base", the other arrives in dropships.
--NOTE: Just add more gamemodes. It's fine some matches remain symetric and Nascar-friendly.

Edited by Alloh, 14 July 2019 - 07:19 AM.






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