44 replies to this topic

[Prototelis]

lol wut?

Did PGI cause you an injury or damages?

[Random Carnage]

I know you have to defend it Tina, I get that, but don't go down with the ship. Once this all implodes, you still have a career to consider. It's worth more than defending a situation that is at best very sketchy, and more likely deliberately dishonest given the time-frames involved. We're not all spotty teens living in moms basement. I suspect many (most?) are professionals in our own right, well educated (despite appearances at times), with families and careers, not to be underestimated - or taken for granted.

Look at what happened to the reputation of a certain Porshe driving MMORPG developer a decade ago that sold out to SoE and was absolutely crucified by the community. Even to this day as he tries to build a new "next best thing" MMO, there are serious doubts about his past over shadowing things. I've been around here for years, and didn't buy in to the pre-order thing exactly because i didn't trust Russ. It's a shame that i don't feel surprised by all this. Actions speak louder than words, and many of us have seen a lot of actions here over the years that leave a bitter taste.

Anyway, I've said my bit and will leave it there. Resignation really shouldn't be the default emotion for a BT franchise fan, but it's all that remains once the anger and frustration run their course. Sad. I'll not be buying MW5. I do wish you well though Tina.

[Prototelis]

Yeah, don't do your job or anything. I hear thats bad for your resume.

[Random Carnage]

Prototelis, on 30 July 2019 - 12:07 AM, said:

Yeah, don't do your job or anything. I hear thats bad for your resume.

Gaining a reputation as untrustworthy in a community that never forgets is worse for your career if you plan on remaining in a similar role.

[Prototelis]

I'm so glad you're privy to someone else's career ambitions.

[Burning2nd]

lol bunch of nerds telling a game developer how it is...

classic guys...

rofl

classic

[PhoenixFire55]

Once a liar, always a liar. Classical Position at the Time^TM.

[The6thMessenger]

[Karl Streiger]

Keep in mind, if Russ had told you the truth. Epic might have bailed because of reasnos (NDA).

not that I understand that harm could be caused bis sich Informationsmaterial.

Anyhow, Epic bails - MW5 dead in the water and your money gone

[w4ldO]

Burning2nd, on 30 July 2019 - 12:20 AM, said:

lol bunch of nerds telling a game developer how it is..

can you consider a game developer still a game developer when he stopped developing that game?

Maynard predicted this whole mess



no one is innocent

[WarHippy]

Tina Benoit, on 29 July 2019 - 04:23 PM, said:

Hello,

I do want to clarify that back in April we did NOT have an agreement with EGS yet. So during that time that Russ spoke in that AMA back in April, there was indeed no plans or agreement signed with EGS yet and therefore he was answering that question truthfully. I just wanted to clear up this misunderstanding for those of you who think that we already had plans or a signing back in April, during the time of that AMA.

That doesn't really matter. What was said was that it would be on Steam at launch and GoG. Had EGS been added as one of the three platforms nobody would have cared, but you guys went exclusive and negated everything else you have said. Russ, you, and everyone else in that company have proven time and time again that you are dishonest and that you can't be bothered to do what you say you are going to do.

[Gristle Missile]

This all could have easily been avoided if instead of promising GOG and Steam "at the moment"
He could have said "We plan on releasing on GOG and Steam, however we are also looking at alternatives to distribution and should have more information closer to release"

Bam....easy....
Nothing misleading

[N a p e s]

Gristle Missile, on 30 July 2019 - 12:43 PM, said:

This all could have easily been avoided if instead of promising GOG and Steam "at the moment"
He could have said "We plan on releasing on GOG and Steam, however we are also looking at alternatives to distribution and should have more information closer to release"

Bam....easy....
Nothing misleading

I mean to me it sounds like the discussions with Epic really hadn't taken place and that fits with Russ' account from the AMA.

That being said, when those discussions began and especially as they were nearing the end, PGI should have informed the players. As Russ put it, ''they held on to the grenade''. Being upfront about it as it happens would have made some waves (they'd probably be bad but maybe not quite this level) but there'd be more time to turn things around for PGI.

[MeiSooHaityu]

N a p e s, on 31 July 2019 - 07:10 AM, said:

I mean to me it sounds like the discussions with Epic really hadn't taken place and that fits with Russ' account from the AMA.

That being said, when those discussions began and especially as they were nearing the end, PGI should have informed the players. As Russ put it, ''they held on to the grenade''. Being upfront about it as it happens would have made some waves (they'd probably be bad but maybe not quite this level) but there'd be more time to turn things around for PGI.

I don't know about that. The AMA took place April 10th, and from the sounds of it, Russ signed the deal with Epic in April. Even if the deal wasn't put pen to paper before the tenth, they were most likely in negotiations with Epic at that point. Heck, even giving him the benefit of the doubt, even if negotiations weren't started, he still doesn't come across as being honest when he states in the AMA the plans for MW5 to be on GoG, Steam, and their own launcher. Essentially, he had to be thinking about an Epic exclusive at that point and know that was the route he wanted to take.

I mean, goin from..."Hey I have an idea, lets go Epic exclusive, contact Epic and start negotiations, have lawyers look over contracts and then pen the deal to make it contractual, all within 20 days...That just feels a bit too tight of a time frame for the April 10th AMA to be truthful. Russ even seems to stutter and very carefully chose his words when talking about it on the 10th.

I think he knew exactly what PGI was going to do at that point, and just couldn't say anything.

So, in that case...Why not just say that they will talk about it in more depth at a later date when the details of the launch are finalized. Why even discuss it at all? They shut down pre-orders in April anyway, it wasn't like dodging the issue would have cost them anything. Even if the Epic deal didn't happen, they could just release a press release right after with all the launch details to quell anxiety.

Overall, this whole thing was a fiasco.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 31 July 2019 - 07:31 AM.

[N a p e s]

The line that gets me from the April 10th AMA is specifically when Russ talks about the GOG release and that people can take this as the confirmation of a GOG release. It sounds genuine (at least to me) and enough so that I can't believe they had something planned with EPIC at that time. Obviously, just my interpretation/perception of course.

But, you're right that contracts like this probably don't materialize super quickly. That being said, EPIC has been pushing these exclusivity deals pretty hard, so maybe they've got a standard proposition with a take it or leave it attitude and PGI ran it through legal quickly since they'd been pushed on a deadline for an answer. Honestly, I don't know.

MeiSooHaityu, on 31 July 2019 - 07:30 AM, said:

So, in that case...Why not just say that they will talk about it in more depth at a later date when the details of the launch are finalized. Why even discuss it at all? They shut down pre-orders in April anyway, it wasn't like dodging the issue would have cost them anything. Even if the Epic deal didn't happen, they could just release a press release right after with all the launch details to quell anxiety.

Overall, this whole thing was a fiasco.

This point though, absolutely. Russ could have said nothing, left the details up in the air and probably avoided a significant amount of grief and as you put it, a total fiasco.

[MeiSooHaityu]

N a p e s, on 31 July 2019 - 07:50 AM, said:

The line that gets me from the April 10th AMA is specifically when Russ talks about the GOG release and that people can take this as the confirmation of a GOG release. It sounds genuine (at least to me) and enough so that I can't believe they had something planned with EPIC at that time. Obviously, just my interpretation/perception of course.

But, you're right that contracts like this probably don't materialize super quickly. That being said, EPIC has been pushing these exclusivity deals pretty hard, so maybe they've got a standard proposition with a take it or leave it attitude and PGI ran it through legal quickly since they'd been pushed on a deadline for an answer. Honestly, I don't know.



This point though, absolutely. Russ could have said nothing, left the details up in the air and probably avoided a significant amount of grief and as you put it, a total fiasco.

Hey, who really knows right? None of us were a fly on PGI's wall during all this, so there is no way to know for sure unless it is somehow unveiled to us. So at that, it is all just hypothetical.

To me though, it just seems like everything is too compressed to be completely truthful. I can...somewhat buy that negotiations started back up and concluded with a contract signing within a couple weeks (although again, that is a terribly tight timeframe), but to say that there were no plans at all and that a multi-platform launch was always the plan...ehhhh...I think he had his mind set on an Epic exclusive and was hard at work to make it happen by that point. Maybe he didn't know if they would get anywhere with Epic before the 10th, but I think he knew at that point in time that it was exactly what he wanted.

Again, who knows. I just personally believe he knew, and that being the case, should have held off saying anything at that point at the very least.

[Gristle Missile]

N a p e s, on 31 July 2019 - 07:10 AM, said:

I mean to me it sounds like the discussions with Epic really hadn't taken place and that fits with Russ' account from the AMA.

There is no way that they started and completed a deal that shortly after Russ' AMA
these things take time and it certainly looks like he had advance knowledge even if the deal was not finalized. Hiding it to keep pre-order numbers up?

Edited by Gristle Missile, 31 July 2019 - 08:26 AM.

[A Really Old Clan Dude]

"Phase 4" for battletech franchise.

EPIC takes control, has MW5 developers make multi player islands where 4 mechs drop and fight is out, 2 min game, rinse and repeat.
game re-badge MECHNight.

[Gristle Missile]

A Really Old Clan Dude, on 31 July 2019 - 01:09 PM, said:

"Phase 4" for battletech franchise.

EPIC takes control, has MW5 developers make multi player islands where 4 mechs drop and fight is out, 2 min game, rinse and repeat.
game re-badge MECHNight.

look at what they did to this poor kodiak before you joke about EPIC making Solaris VII

[Appogee]

Tina Benoit, on 29 July 2019 - 04:23 PM, said:

Hello,

I do want to clarify that back in April we did NOT have an agreement with EGS yet. So during that time that Russ spoke in that AMA back in April, there was indeed no plans or agreement signed with EGS yet and therefore he was answering that question truthfully. I just wanted to clear up this misunderstanding for those of you who think that we already had plans or a signing back in April, during the time of that AMA.

I don't give a rat's posterior about the Epic deal. However, I have to respond to this attempted excuse for an action which many in the community clearly do care about deeply.

You say that PGI didn't have a deal "yet". But any of us who work in the business know that distribution contracts and agreements take several weeks - usually, months - to negotiate.

The fact that a deal wasn't done "yet" doesn't change the fact that management had made a decision to pursue such a deal, and that the deal was being actively negotiated. That could have been communicated. But instead, your company tried to keep it secret until after pre-orders closed. You would have succeeded too if it wasn't for those damned kids web coders who updated the FAQ a little too soon, and alert community members who realised the implication of the changes.

Many businesses around the world have realised that being transparent - ie. open and honest - with their customers, with good news and bad, is the most sustainable business model. Aside from being straight out ethical, it earns loyalty and repeat purchase.

Businesses which try to hide, obfuscate, string customers along with visions they don't intend to fulfil, providing fluffy PR spin instead of honest adult customer engagement, end up with toxic brands and failed business ventures.

PGI's deceptive practices already cost you heavily through the Transverse debacle. It's time to take the higher path.

Edited by Appogee, 03 October 2019 - 08:39 PM.