6 replies to this topic

[ArdentLemon]

Ah, Ravens! I know there are a lot of posts discussing the entire chassis itself and/or specific variants. These are just two of a myriad builds some internet user has cooked up. I might have created a ridiculously subpar build for all I know, but the things in this post work for me personally. They take inspiration from other builds that are on repositories and forum posts for sure.

One more heads up: there is lots and lots of thought process and play style commentary in between. It might be helpful to someone who is considering using the builds or someone trying to find their niche, but if you just want to comment on the build, call it terrible or great, you can skip it for the most part. This post is also terribly organised, but I am sure it's readable.

Intro
I installed MWO a few weeks ago, finally giving in to my curiosity after watching quite a bunch of gameplay on YT. Completed the basic tutorial, adjusted a few key bindings to personal taste, and stepped right into the slugfest that is quick play. Picked whatever I found interesting from the trial pool. I was horribad. The concept of two separately moving sections took time to understand, let alone harness (and I still am by no means good with my movement). I figured out that I lacked the game sense to play anything bigger than a medium mech effectively, and I ended up playing mostly lights. This could mean two things: either I got some damage in and got deleted the moment the enemy laid eyes on me, or I never got there to begin with, whether it be weapon range of bad positioning. The only trial mech that did see some success in my hands was the RVN-3L. The champion version, that is: two big lasers and ECM. No whistles and bells, no pulse lasers or other things that were a little more different.

Then I did something foolish and silly. I blame enthusiasm and ignorance about 'the meta'. I bought a cheaper Raven variant. One reasoning seems to have been that the stock 3L doesn't bear much resemblance to the champion edition, and the other was that I did not want to spend so much of my cadet bonus on just the mech itself. I felt that the selection of hardpoints on the 2X would suit me fine, and so I embarked on my journey. I toyed with the loadout a bunch, and during that process I began reading into viable builds, here and on other info repositories. But I also came across (mostly old) posts rambling about the 2X being one of the worst light mechs in the game, and similar nonsense. There's even that self-help styled Bad 'Mechs Anonymous thread for the 2X. This last one is worth mentioning because it did teach me two things. One about the Raven chassis in general, the other about what the 2X can do as opposed to what it cannot. I had only played the trial 3L for three rounds, so I had no issues with frustration. Just the confusion of a new player who didn't quite understand the benefits and drawbacks of the many weapons and other equipment on offer, despite generally knowing what it did. After copious misspending of those cadet bonus C-bills (and ones earned from matches), I now have a 2X build that suits me.

RVN-2X

Here's a Smurfy overview. I've nicknamed this 'Munchy' because eating missiles was the only thing I excelled at in the beginning, and it also eats through distracted enemies just fine nowadays.

One avid missile eater coming up.

In case you cannot load Smurfy well right now or only skim this post:

XL 275 (1/1 HS slots filled)
Laser AMS
4 medium lasers
LRM10 with two tons of ammo
DHS, endosteel, ferro-fibrous

There's a slot for a heat sink in the 275, which is filled in my build. On paper it looks pretty terrible for heat management. In practice, since it's being used more for poking, it only starts heating up quickly when AMS, lasers and LRM are all firing off. The lasers also generate a few percent more heat than the dissipation removes during cooldown. On its own, this won't force you to limit your fire rate, but it's worth noting. So far, the only maps where it runs slightly hotter are the really hot ones, and out of those Terra Therma is the only one where I've noticed it.

It's not one of those laser sniping builds or PPCs for that matter. It flies in the face of other builds that sacrifice the Raven's already low speed for some extra punch. But for me it works fine. This is mostly down to my playstyle and in some way my current tier bracket, I suspect. Ravens are not the greatest scout mechs compared to others that are faster and harder to hit. They're also not the best in fighting other lights, far from it. Once I learned about this bit of info, I planned my entire build and play around an observant and supportive role. As a result, the stock SRM got thrown out the window immediately for having 'terrible' range (even though 270 is still more than machine guns). One might wonder what the LRM is doing there. I have several reasons for it. One lone missile hardpoint isn't going to do much in close; this mech can fire up to 10 missiles in one volley; MRMs don't have the tracking or range to be any more useful than my medium lasers. Even so, I do realise that LRMs are weird to field on a light mech. Maybe I would have chosen differently now, but I haven't found myself a situation yet where having MRMs would have helped me more, so I haven't been inclined to try swapping them in.

Would the 3L do a better job supporting with ECM? NARC for tagging enemies with? Hell, both ECM and AMS? Maybe. I know that there are vocal people both for and against AMS use. I won't be going over that too much, but I will say that there is nothing else that I was going to get use out of if I would not take AMS. There's no large lasers to take up space and no bigger MRM or LRM rack than the 10 tubes that are already there. I understand that AMS is situational and ECM can apply to a much broader range of situations. But when all you have is a 2X on your team, would you rather have it with AMS or without? At least it might help mitigate some damage if someone is caught by missile volleys. Since it is laser AMS, it does not require extra ammo, and the extra heat has so far not been enough to impede me. Like the LRM, it was the most likely to contribute something to the rest of the team's benefit without having to alter much about how I played.

Is AMS worth it? In the tier 5 zone I ended up in after a bunch of rounds, it still is. I should count how many people on my team call that they're a LRM boat and want locks held for them. Maybe I'll encounter less LRM use once I climb to T4, but I seriously doubt it. Would a good player use cover and sidestepping to mitigate missile damage more effectively than a lone AMS system? I'm willing to believe so. My current 2X build runs 136 kph, enough to sidestep missiles if I have the leg room and time to react. I generally move it if I get a missile warning, but I see many a (newish) teammates doing exactly nothing about it. Is a single AMS helping? Against a LRM boat that can lob hundreds of missiles in a few volleys, no. But just like I encounter teammates who don't react to incoming missiles, I frequently hear my AMS firing off together with one or more others, and AMS is especially strong in numbers. I won't repeat the numbers here: a quick forum search about AMS should give you plenty of people who cover that topic better than I ever could.

Besides AMS coverage, I keep eyes around my team. If they're spotting targets and all coordinating on individual mechs, I try to chip in too. If I don't have line of sight or the target is not in medium laser range... I have missiles! This is really just a convenient side effect of questionable build philosophy, but I will take it as an inherently good trait of the build. Granted, a single LRM10 won't do so much as tickle if the enemy has at least one AMS in range, but the missile warning contributes to the overall noise on that one target. Not to mention, I can punish enemies for poor positioning and not bringing AMS with up to 10 damage if they are slow or not moving. Wildly spread, yes, but after a few shots the overall saturation is enough to be worth it. When it's all in my view and within medium laser distance, that is where this 2X shines most: working with the bigger teammates to tear up singled out enemies. In addition, Ravens are not the tankiest, but they aren't quite fragile (except for legs, of course). Sometimes you can play the brawler style just a bit to help your teammates get to the back of the enemy, sometimes you yourself are the one who gets to do this. Those four lasers have an alpha of 20 and don't generate ridiculous heat, with an alright cooldown. It's not meta in the least, but I'd like to think it is more than enough output.

Now, Ravens are generally not great for fighting other lights, and this build is no exception. It's not easy to hold those lasers on the right parts for long, and IS LRMs don't do anything in close if you can get a lock to begin with. However, it can pull its weight in relieving bigger teammates of harassment. Sometimes, all it takes is a little poke to scare the offender away. Sometimes calling a target spot causes one or two teammates to realise that the map square is the one they're in and makes them turn to face an enemy. Lastly, this is a 35 ton mech. It's pretty big compared to a Flea or Piranha. This means that I can also just block the enemy light by standing in their way as they circle my teammate. I've helped a teammate Fafnir dump a fat alpha right on top of a Flea like this once, which plainly deleted it. It was very satisfying to do, though I imagine the Flea pilot was less thrilled at that random Raven who just stood there and bodyblocked.

Whoof. That's a lot of text about one small mech. If you caught none of that, the shortest I can say it is that I can poke at targets in nearly any range and keep an eye on the bigger mechs to make sure they aren't getting eaten by nasty little lights or pelted by LRM showers. That should be enough about the 2X. I might want to play around with its skill nodes just a little more, but the loadout part of the build is as good as I will ever make it.

Let's go take a look at the Raven I bought next, that being the 4X.

A RVN-4X? Not a 3L?
That's right. Even though I can still at present buy a stock 3L, I wanted to take a look at the 4X first. Buying a 3L doesn't raise many questions for me anyway: people either advertise you a LL build or something supportive of your team that I can cook up without any external ideas myself. Few people seem to really have a non-meme build for the 4X, meanwhile. My curiosity was also heightened because people disagree about how good or bad the 4X is compared to the 2X. Maybe I wanted to take up the challenge because I had already found my niche for the 2X. Whatever the case, I have given the 4X a try too. Straight up ahead, I had a bit of a bad time learning the ropes of the 4X at first. This has nothing to do with the leftover XL 255 I stuffed in; I used that engine on one of the earlier 2X builds and I was quite alright with it. I'm not sure what exactly went on in my head, but I think the two machine guns made me inclined to run in and ratatat away at the closest thing I could see. Quite obviously, that doesn't work. The ballistic mounts replace two energy mounts and are on the arm. Jump jets were (and are) a bit new to me too, further making piloting the thing a marvel of adventures and lots of mishaps.

Despite all this, I continued to try out things. There's an existing thread that is actually titled "What do you do with a 4X?" and it is the same question I tried to answer for myself. I was fully convinced that a 4X build would be quite different from my existing 2X, and that it would somehow find a role outside laser memebirds, AC20 boombirds and other silly stuff. I tried out MRM10, ballistic AMS, medium pulse lasers, machine guns. This didn't quite work with enough effectiveness or efficiency to me. Someone in a round commented that I should try MRM30 or 40 on a 4X and that it was supposedly alright. A few rounds later, some of my light lance colleagues scoped out an enemy RVN-4X fielding one MRM40 and nothing else. It got eaten up by my two light lance colleagues faster than it could croak 'nevermore'. Not so great, then.

However, I found the MRM10 almost satisfactory on the 4X compared to the 2X for two reasons, one tied to each variant. The 2X was already able to field 4 medium lasers in my final build with a maximum range of 540 before skill nodes, no ammo consumption and tolerable heat. The MRMs didn't add all that much utility, or that's what I was thinking. On the 4X, the machineguns already pull you into a closer range where it's easier to land MRM vomit on the enemy's face, and MRMs have superior range compared to MGs. And yet... the 4X didn't handle closer range engagements very well with it, as the MRM required a bit more face time to properly aim and lead. It certainly works as an emergency 10 damage punch at short ranges, but at that point I had generally screwed up badly enough that it would not be enough damage to get me out of trouble. Medium pulse lasers seemed quite okay to me until I started looking at the exact stats and weighed my options. They certainly didn't run awfully hot, not as much as ER mediums, but they were heavy and consumed extra slots, and their range was that of an ER small laser to boot. At that point I decided that these things could take their 1 extra damage and move it to some other place where they would be better at home, and I stuck with regular medium lasers. Likewise, I ditched the MRM for LRM, even though the space taken by jump jets has limited the LRM ammo a little bit compared to the superior ammo/ton of MRMs. I also replaced the MG with LMG. This is the only choice that I thoroughly calculated out.

-30% damage (0.07 vs 0.10)
+25% ammo (2500 vs 2000)
Almost twice the range (250-500 vs 130-260)

Calculating the total damage potential per single ton of ammo results in 200 for the regular MG and 175 for the LMG, which is 12.5% less. Considering the relatively large range advantage, the lower damage per ton doesn't bother me much. The LMG damage only starts falling off at a point where the regular MG has already lost nearly all its damage. Is the MG superior for point-blank fighting? Certainly it is, and I know it. However, with the LMG Ι notice that I can engage enemies more consistently thanks to the range, even if that damage is less. I can peek up and hit nearby enemies with the LMG; the MG can't do that unless it's a very short range.

Ultimately, the damage downgrade is already offset by the extra dakka for the most part, even if that dakka takes more time to deal damage. Add in the fact that they deal all their damage around the same range as SRMs, and I would consider the LMG a very good side grade to its regular counterpart, if not an upgrade for light mechs of this type.

All of these things are just extra info about my thought processes, included just to show you how I think in this game.

Here's the 4X build.

This brings XL255, 2 ML, 2 LMG, laser AMS, LRM10, 4 JJ.

The LAMS can be swapped for ballistic with 1-1.5t of ammo if desired, but I find that the 'bad' heat number only becomes meaningful if you're constantly firing off your lasers, and the 4X has two lasers as opposed to four. The 2X can overheat from sustained laser fire, but as mentioned before it takes a while before you start getting the hiss. The engine was a leftover from my unwise 2X experiments, but it eventually proved to be exactly right. It also invited me to keep as many jump jets as possible to stay out of trouble a little better and get to places people don't necessarily expect you to be in. The 4X cannot play squirrel well compared to many other mechs who are faster and harder to hit, but it works wonders to flee up a steep hill or other surface when you accidentally give the enemy face time. I have encountered one situation in which the laser AMS was a disadvantage, and it was while sitting near an enemy LRM boat who must have fielded something like 6 LRM10 or maybe even LRM15. So it's down to circumstances and personal preference as far as I'm concerned. Encountering lots of LRM on a hot map? Ballistic. Only getting hit by one mech who just has two LRM15? Laser AMS won't hurt you.

And guess what? I'm really enjoying this. It is certainly not the strongest build, nor is it the strongest mech. But it works for me. It could be that not everyone expects such a weird generalist build, or they might be underestimating the 4X or even Ravens as a whole. It has AMS to reduce how many missiles might hit my team, medium lasers to deal damage at short and middle range, it has LRMs to harass enemies out to longer ranges, and it has the set of LMG to hurt up any exposed sections on enemies. It pretty much does everything I want to do.

I have good fun with these builds. If you want damage numbers, I can't give you a good screencap, but it is a little hit-or-miss. On average, both builds deal around 100 damage on average, but this includes the earliest games where I got blasted to bits very quickly. I have had some 200+ games and one particularly good 400+ damage round. These are not the spectacular numbers of those flankers or the backstabbers, the boombirds or the sniper builds. The match score generally shows that I pull my weight in destroying enemy missiles, spotting flankers and good use of two UAVs. Those 80,000 C-bills are always well-spent.

I have yet to get any negative commentary about any of this. I've had some thanks for good spotting or help with harassing lights, and one player even nicknamed my 2X "Odin's Raven", which I'll take as a compliment for my observant behaviour and half-decent game sense.

So! That's everything about my lovely Ravens so far. Once I have skill nodes up for my 4X, I do want to buy me a 3L and/or Huginn. If you have thoughts and ideas about builds for those, please post them. If you have commentary about the Ravens I own, post that too. I'm open to suggestions.

[Ruccus]

Here are some ideas for your Ravens:

RVN-2X (MRM30, 2 MLs, 255XL engine)
RVN-2X (MRM30, 4 MLs, 225XL engine)

RVN-4X (AC20, 180XL engine; aka the 'Boom Raven')
RVN-4X (Gauss Rifle, 180XL engine; aka the 'Gauss Raven')
RVN-4X (MRM40, 225XL engine)
RVN-4X (AC10, 2 MLs, 200XL engine)

The above builds are made for supporting your team's heavy and assault mechs and maneuvering within your team grouping; they don't have the speed to go off on your own but they have enough firepower that can tip the scales of battle if you can position quickly and get your firepower on a teammate's target. Instead of relying on speed to avoid being killed you're relying on a nearby heavy or assault teammate being a more important target to the enemy.

Edited by Ruccus, 05 September 2019 - 03:35 AM.

[ArdentLemon]

Ooh, these are some interesting builds. I've actually seen someone run the MRM40 4X build... but they did not play around their team. My light lance buddies ate it up faster than you can say 'nevermore', but that's beside the point. Boom bird is something I've heard about all over the place. While it's interesting, I think I'd sooner load up by Blackjack 1 with an AC20 and some lasers instead.

I'm definitely giving both 2X builds a fair shot, and I'm going to consider the AC10 4X build as well. They won't be fast enough to chase after harassing enemy lights anymore, but they're definitely going to make bigger enemy mechs regret not killing that silly Raven.

[Squiggy McPew]

Only one I like is the 3l with ecm 2 large laser and an er med. Lots of dps and fast enough to keep up with the group. Don't really like non ecm lights as a rule past a few of the silly good ones like the piranha.

[Nix Axer]

[ThreeStooges]

one 3l I've done is the sneak. lfe 200 2xdhs srm6s pair and spls. Case it and add ammo with ammo nodes for more srm ammo. Stealth armor with the ecm nodes. Once you figure out which grids see the most common enemy go to spot like d5 in sorlaris stealth your way to the enemy's rear and take out a slow mech.

I've also gone just lrm 10s or a single 20 lrm with one sml with the same engine and dhs since I don't like xl being an insta death. Cram it full of lrm ammo with a bap/ecm and it can be skilled up easily enough.

[ScrapIron Prime]

I'm really liking the new +100 seismic ability on the Raven 3L. That and having a bonus UAV is really handy to spot the light mechs as they come in. The seismic alone has a range of 300 meters, which is out beyond any small or micro laser effective range and into IS Medium and clan Heavy Medium range. GREAT early warning system!

Been playing it today with 3 Large Lasers and shadowing a heavy or assault on my team to provide ECM. Hitting 400-600 damage consistently with it because its hard to target and is never the first mech the reds shoot at when I'm shadowing a Stalker. Plus I highlight the Arctic Wolves or Fleas as they come in, allowing both myself and my big mechbuddy to vaporize them thanks to my enhanced seismic!

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 20 October 2021 - 09:48 AM.