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Jarl' S And Sportmenship


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#1 Kingfucius

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 09:02 AM

Recently I had a couple of games with one of the top 10 Jarls' list warriors. I guess the decline of MWO makes it possible for me as potato to fight alongside with this calibre of men. Eager to learn from him I watched his proceedings. He is always in an assault. I figured he would be very active in this game; taking initiative, giving calls etc. To my amazement he was rather passive. He just waited for his opportunity to come, nomatter if his team was to loose or win (lost all matches with him, he having high scores). He could have helped his teammates a lot of times but if it was not beneficial for his own score he just let them die.
Disappointing and relativating Jarls'. I hope not everybody in that rank is like him.

#2 Bombast

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 09:07 AM

The people who Excel at this game learned a long time ago helping pugs doesn't pay. If you try to call, everyone ignores you (Unless you call a terrible idea). If you try to help someone, they'll just run away and leave you holding the bag. If you try to lead from the front, no one will follow.

Basically, part of being good in this game (And many online games) is learning that quite often your own team is the enemy too.

Edited by Bombast, 13 September 2019 - 09:09 AM.


#3 Christophe Ivanov

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 10:16 AM

Yup, I'm just about to give up helping as when I do, like I did last night, it cost me the match. I went with a fellow lance mate and he got in a tussle with an enemy mech.
I went to help and soon was in a furball with same mech and while I was, he bolted and left me there to die against a better opponent which we both could have dispatch WORKING TOGETHER. But no...that didn't happen. Posted Image

So end result, why bother now a days!?

#4 Stormpaw

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 10:30 AM

Many high ranking and comp players consider anyone who's not in their unit cannon fodder. I've seen many drops lost because the comp guys won't fight with the team. Gotta preserve that kdr :)

#5 Jackal Noble

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 10:35 AM

Please god tell me that English is not your primary language.

#6 Sigmar Sich

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 10:38 AM

Some people just play for themselves, not for the team, for whatever reasons. *shrug*

Don't let it bother you too much.

#7 Prototelis

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 10:54 AM

Personally; I am not going to go out of my way to help someone who made a critical mistake that will cost a significant amount of health/heat bailing them out. You're almost always better off trying to deplete enemy health pool faster than they can capitalize on your teammates folley.

#8 Kodan Black

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 11:07 AM

Yes, sadly you cannot rescue people from their own mistakes most of the time. That light that decides to engage the enemy force a minute before the main body arrives... you will die helping him and you will be down 2 instead of 1. Even the guys who don't make a mistake but the rest of the force does something can be a problem. An Annihilator doing 48kph is lagging behind and sees enemies pouncing ... by the time you get there he will be seconds from death and then you get to be the target which again leads to down 2 mechs.

If someone is nearby and fighting 1v1 I'll usually go help because then we are up by 1, but when someone calls for help and they are too far away I'm not going to waste the time walking over there to see a smoking corpse and pulling myself out of the fight in the mean time.

Conversely if there is a player that is smart on my team I'll try to hang near them to keep them alive since that way we have at least 1 good player around. If I'm in my ECM/triple AMS Kit Fox with Streaks I'll shadow the best assault I can to guard them from missiles and lights and hope that the other assaults listen to me telling them to stick nearby. But they usually don't.

The people I've had complain the loudest on comms about the team are the ones who generally are doing the dumbest things.

#9 Prototelis

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 11:12 AM

If you're playing a cheeky harasser you need a well developed sense of when it is time to dip/when you have delayed or drawn another mech far enough out of position.

That isn't really the issue; losing a light mech isn't a significant amount of health or firepower pool.

This post probably almost exclusively revolves around an anecdote involving some slow *** assault/heavy pilot that lost in the mechlab, has pathing issues, planted in a dumb position, or all three of these things at once.

#10 Nightbird

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 12:13 PM

When your teammate makes a mistake, your best action is to destroy a target on the other team that is making a mistake as well while the rest of their team is distracted.

Putting the score at 1-1 is obviously better then being down 0-2.

#11 Kol Koontz

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 12:42 PM

I'd say there is a big difference in the players that have high avg. matchscore and the ones that have decent matchscore with a high wlr to go with it.

Wish they'd have separated group queue stats from solo a long time ago because that can skew things quite a bit.

#12 Prototelis

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 12:42 PM

All said tho; I do come and help people if I think it isn't going to create a disadvantage.

But like a slow *** assault planted in zimbabwe that was AFK the first 5-30 seconds of the game is not advantageous to help.

View PostKol Koontz, on 13 September 2019 - 12:42 PM, said:

I'd say there is a big difference in the players that have high avg. matchscore and the ones that have decent matchscore with a high wlr to go with it.

Wish they'd have separated group queue stats from solo a long time ago because that can skew things quite a bit.


Not really. You're going to see the same trends. Players that are better will win more and have high average match score. De-linking the queues for stat purposes to prove out who the ******** are is a fallacy people cling to justify their own shortcomings.

Edited by Prototelis, 13 September 2019 - 12:44 PM.


#13 Bombast

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 12:47 PM

View PostKol Koontz, on 13 September 2019 - 12:42 PM, said:

Wish they'd have separated group queue stats from solo a long time ago because that can skew things quite a bit.


It's pretty easy to see who spends most of their time in Group queue - Just look for an abnormal ratio between Matchscore/KDR and WLR. People with high everything are pretty good no matter where they are, people with really high WLR and poor to middling KDR/MS are living in group queue.

#14 Prototelis

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 12:55 PM

KDR is meaningless in this game.

Top players typically keep top company. This myth about ******** exclusively getting carried in GQ is mostly just that; a myth. Either way; when that is what is happening (it is rare) they're readily identifiable by still having lower WLR and average match score.

You can for sure generate a higher WLR in GQ, often at the expense of match score when you maintain certain company, but the data is still going to trend the same way.

Edited by Prototelis, 13 September 2019 - 12:55 PM.


#15 Kol Koontz

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 01:10 PM

View PostBombast, on 13 September 2019 - 12:47 PM, said:


It's pretty easy to see who spends most of their time in Group queue - Just look for an abnormal ratio between Matchscore/KDR and WLR. People with high everything are pretty good no matter where they are, people with really high WLR and poor to middling KDR/MS are living in group queue.


Not always.

There are folks with high everything that will put out damage in whichever queue but are no where near as good as their stats across the board paint them out to be.

Too late now but they should have been separate from years ago. Pretty lazy PGI refused to bother.

#16 JediPanther

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 01:50 PM

I play mostly solo q. Depending on my mech and load out I might be very aggressive or not. Most the time I do try and help other team mates because teamwork is the most op thing in the game. Anytime I can fight two-to-one in my favor i'll do it.

With solo q so focused on mobility or just raw high burst damage I generally won't use anything under 81kph or a lrm only build unless trolling in an fast light such as the lct-3s lrm 5s.

#17 Roughneck45

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 02:49 PM

Not sure what sportmenship has to do with any of this.

9/10 times going to save one of you teammates is a bad idea. Noble, and feels great if you can pull it off, but in my experience its just not worth it. You'll end up sacrificing yourself when you realize the assault you were going to help can't hit the broadside of a barn. I'll certainly help names i recognize, because I know they can get the job done, so together there is a higher chance of victory.

This isn't just super top tier jarls list people either, Sean Lang has been saying it for YEARS now on the NGNG stream "Oh no, I broke the number one rule, went to save someone out of position, lol" as he gets blasted to bits for his efforts.

Edited by Roughneck45, 13 September 2019 - 07:24 PM.


#18 Flyby215

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 02:49 PM

Most on that list are not there by chance. Usually if I see someone on the other team that is high on the Jarl's list I'll go out of my way to try to kill them off; sadly this usually just results in my own death because they're well positioned or meta'd up far better than my own mech! Posted Image

#19 Imperial Porter

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 03:55 PM

Now, I am not a top 10 player, but I can definitely relate to the behavior you describe. And while I don't see my teammates as meat shields, I am very aware that most players in a game are just not very good.

If I see someone moving into a bad position or pushing too aggressively I will usually tell them not to. But it is extremely rare that they listen.

I will not risk my own armor to save a friend that is badly out of position. I serve my team best by dealing damage to the enemy, and the longer I can survive the longer can keep doing that.

#20 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 04:37 PM

OP, correct me if I am wrong but with the number of games played and your avg MS, I will hazard that you are at least in Tier 2, or almost there. (based on my Alt which has approx 50 fewer games and slightly higher MS, with 30% to go to Tier 1). The MM only uses Tiers for matchups. There are players with avg 171 MS and over 15K+ who are in tier 1, dropping with and against players with 2k games but an avg 350+ MS.

By the time most players get to Tier 1/2, fewer players are willing to stick their necks out in an attempt to herd the cats in the Solo Queue. Lots of times it is not worth it due to the negative feedback (regardless how directions are given) to be totally ignored.

Yes, the game would differently play better if there was more communication, but from PGI severe delay in adding in-game Voip to fraking up single queue when it was all solo-grouped players during the non-voip days then doing a complete separation has led us to the current circumstances.

imho, even with all or almost all solo pugs, when one can get a FP drop, there is more communication in those drops than in 20 solo queue drops combine, and I think I am being generous with the solo queue (likely need to increase that number for comparison).

Edit, using another account? The account you are posting with has not had any games this month, so are you talking about a game from August, in FP or played on another account?

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 13 September 2019 - 04:40 PM.






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