146 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

MrSomaru, on 13 September 2019 - 09:50 PM, said:

Well, sharing aggro or rotating armor is too much for pugs to comprehend, as well as optimal places to shoot from.

TBQH, all of it is too much for them to comprehend and "armor sharing" is no more or less mind-blowing than "drawing aggro".

[Warning incoming Humble Dexterer]

Kingfucius, on 13 September 2019 - 09:02 AM, said:

Recently I had a couple of games with one of the top 10 Jarls' list warriors.
...
Disappointing and relativating Jarls'. I hope not everybody in that rank is like him.

Don't be disappointed : The list is fine you're just reading it wrong.

When it comes to Sportsmanship, the top #10 players are located at the bottom of the list.

[Stormpaw]

justcallme A S H, on 13 September 2019 - 08:08 PM, said:

So what? You made a claim/statement and have nothing to back it up with.

Whether you watch them or not is utterly irrelevant. 100/1000s of others do and those people can see clear as day what you are saying quite simply - doesn't happen.

What is irrelevant though is your claim. And it will be irrelevant until such a time as you provide some level of proof to your false claim:


As there are "many drops", I'm sure such evidence should be plentiful.

Alas you are empty handed.

Are you seriously going to stand there and deny the fact that many upper level comp players use their teams in QP and FP as pug shields? I just don't understand what you're trying to disprove

[L057FUNC710N]

Stormpaw, on 13 September 2019 - 10:24 PM, said:

Are you seriously going to stand there and deny the fact that many upper level comp players use their teams in QP and FP as pug shields? I just don't understand what you're trying to disprove

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Some players are literally only good for drawing fire from the enemy.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Stormpaw, on 13 September 2019 - 10:24 PM, said:

Are you seriously going to stand there and deny the fact that many upper level comp players use their teams in QP and FP as pug shields? I just don't understand what you're trying to disprove

"Many"? Sure. But not all. The fact remains that if the rest of the team just tried to remain close to the top player and provided support, then everyone would benefit. Heck, the headless chickens would at least learn the maps and what the vantage points would be for most weapon types as well. Instead, we are left with either "Take top" or "I can't take top 'cause my paint will get scratched" or "I'm the quiet ninja-type who'll flank the enemies but never fire the weapons to do enough damage" type.

[Mr Andersson]

To paraphrase Patton; the objective in mech warfare is not to share your armor, but to make the enemy team share theirs.

Edited by Mr Andersson, 14 September 2019 - 03:34 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Stormpaw, on 13 September 2019 - 10:24 PM, said:

Are you seriously going to stand there and deny the fact that many upper level comp players use their teams in QP and FP as pug shields? I just don't understand what you're trying to disprove

I am asking you to support your claim. All these players you claim do it - many of them live stream, and you can see live, that they don't do this.

So continue to deflect by all means... Or... Just provide the evidence to back up your claim.


Whether or not pro players position correctly to take advantage of the map, team/enemy position in relation to their loadout is once again - IRRELEVANT. Until you provide proof, evidence and thus context you will continue to be seen to be making all of this up.

I mean o know you are as I watch and know ALL these guys and many more, they never hide behind their team to just deliberately farm damage. They have extremely high WLRs for a reason. And playing like a typical QP Match Score farmer, isn't it.

FRAGTAST1C, on 13 September 2019 - 11:17 PM, said:

"Many"? Sure. But not all. The fact remains that if the rest of the team just tried to remain close to the top player and provided support, then everyone would benefit. Heck, the headless chickens would at least learn the maps and what the vantage points would be for most weapon types as well. Instead, we are left with either "Take top" or "I can't take top 'cause my paint will get scratched" or "I'm the quiet ninja-type who'll flank the enemies but never fire the weapons to do enough damage" type.

Exactly.

Often I will say that I'm in a big fat gunz Assault. I ask the team to stick with me and I say we will most likely win.

I sometimes I might get 4-5 players with me, a win is basically a forgone conclusion if that happens. They don't, well roll the dice. Could go any way.

[Vxheous]

WTF did I just read...

[Shanrak]

Here is what I see most of the time when someone in qp calls for a push:

1. The whole team is still strung out because we haven't had a chance to gather up yet.
2. The route they're pushing is either straight in the open or into a narrow alley.
3. They'll push then inevitably die going 1v5 within the first minute.
4. They'll ***** and moan about people being ******* and too scared to follow them into a stupid plan.

Edited by Shanrak, 14 September 2019 - 06:20 AM.

[Phoolan Devi]

denAirwalkerrr, on 13 September 2019 - 06:04 PM, said:

I'll just leave this here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/394905200

This videoclip makes me mad with envy!

Everytime I'm that motionless and out of position I either get swarmed by two or three light mechs with stealth or get headshot by a double gauss sniper.......

[Stormpaw]

justcallme A S H, on 14 September 2019 - 03:52 AM, said:

I am asking you to support your claim. All these players you claim do it - many of them live stream, and you can see live, that they don't do this.

So continue to deflect by all means... Or... Just provide the evidence to back up your claim.


Whether or not pro players position correctly to take advantage of the map, team/enemy position in relation to their loadout is once again - IRRELEVANT. Until you provide proof, evidence and thus context you will continue to be seen to be making all of this up.

I mean o know you are as I watch and know ALL these guys and many more, they never hide behind their team to just deliberately farm damage. They have extremely high WLRs for a reason. And playing like a typical QP Match Score farmer, isn't it.



Exactly.

Often I will say that I'm in a big fat gunz Assault. I ask the team to stick with me and I say we will most likely win.

I sometimes I might get 4-5 players with me, a win is basically a forgone conclusion if that happens. They don't, well roll the dice. Could go any way.

I never said all, you made that up. There are definitely those that don't. But many do, I know this and so do you, I have better things to do than to sort through videos to prove something even you know to be true, but for some reason you feel the need to prove people they're wrong even when you know it's not true.

Rather than screaming "PROOOOFFFF!!!111", answer a simple question truthfully and we'll see who's who: Are there many (not all) comp players, including the majority of players in at least one of the upper end units, that frequently use their qp and fp teammates as cannon fodder?

[MrXanthios]

Stormpaw, on 13 September 2019 - 10:24 PM, said:

Are you seriously going to stand there and deny the fact that many upper level comp players use their teams in QP and FP as pug shields? I just don't understand what you're trying to disprove

I mostly play medium mechs. My role is not to share armor. It's sad when I end the game with my medium mech at 40% and 800-1000 damage and in charlie there's 2-3 assaults above 80% armor and below 200 damage. Upper players might be using pugs as meatshields and that's understandable, reasonable and justified given the complete unawareness the average player has of his surroundings.

[Phoolan Devi]

I'd rather play with players with a kdr below 2 than with players who have a kdr above 3!

[Prototelis]

KDR is nearly meaningless.

[Bombast]

Y E O N N E, on 13 September 2019 - 09:54 PM, said:

TBQH, all of it is too much for them to comprehend and "armor sharing" is no more or less mind-blowing than "drawing aggro".

Didn't we just have a thread where someone was asking about armor sharing, where the first one-two posts basically explained that "Armor Sharing" is just a colloquially term describing the Theory of Team Wide Engagement (Sharing Aggro, sharing enemy attention, sharing the load, sharing health pool, however you want to put it), and people still ranted for a week about how it's all bunk because you can't win a game by literally losing armor?

We got some special people around here.

Stormpaw, on 14 September 2019 - 08:07 AM, said:

Rather than screaming "PROOOOFFFF!!!111", answer a simple question truthfully and we'll see who's who: Are there many (not all) comp players, including the majority of players in at least one of the upper end units, that frequently use their qp and fp teammates as cannon fodder?

What constitutes "cannon fodder?" Are you referring to just leaving pugs to die when they make mistakes? Then sure, most good players do, and they should - "Better stupid together than smart apart" only applies to 12 man pushes, not saving flanking assaults.

Are you talking about intentionally leaving entire teams to die, or even sending friendlies to die? Then no. That would require communicating with a team and trying to herd them like cats, which good players shouldn't do for the same reason they shouldn't try to clean their ear wax out with plutonium Q-Tips.

[MisterSomaru]

Shanrak, on 14 September 2019 - 06:19 AM, said:

Here is what I see most of the time when someone in qp calls for a push:

1. The whole team is still strung out because we haven't had a chance to gather up yet.
2. The route they're pushing is either straight in the open or into a narrow alley.
3. They'll push then inevitably die going 1v5 within the first minute.
4. They'll ***** and moan about people being ******* and too scared to follow them into a stupid plan.

I can give pugs the simplest, most braindead plan, where followed can turn into a stomp that favors our side much more often than not. it's usually "stand here, shoot enemy." and it'll get ignored, in favor of rotating around a center point and we lose horribly. I ask "what did we learn?" and I get told that I'm an *******. Or, when someone calls a push at the correct time and it's ignored because people are legitimate chicken shits? then w/e, we can lose anyway. you've earned your loss by being stupid. I also frequently JL players that call out dumb strats, and when they have a sub 1.0 win/loss, I will definitely call them out on it. The problem with that also is, that people take concrete statistics as a suggestion in this game, or that they're wrong, yet repeatedly get outplayed by those that are good at the game who call them out for it. Makes for an odd dichotomy for those that complain about good players yet never attempt to learn why they're good, and will actively try to drag a team down as a trolling measure. Fun fact: if you're so bad that you're attempting to drag a good player down as a troll, it won't matter in the long run because you essentially didn't exist to begin with.
Well, that rant went off topic. Bad players gonna be bad no matter what evidence is shown in their face, and top tier players will treat them how they present themselves, mainly the ones that have no desire to learn.

[LowSubmarino]

Kingfucius, on 13 September 2019 - 09:02 AM, said:

Recently I had a couple of games with one of the top 10 Jarls' list warriors. I guess the decline of MWO makes it possible for me as potato to fight alongside with this calibre of men. Eager to learn from him I watched his proceedings. He is always in an assault. I figured he would be very active in this game; taking initiative, giving calls etc. To my amazement he was rather passive. He just waited for his opportunity to come, nomatter if his team was to loose or win (lost all matches with him, he having high scores). He could have helped his teammates a lot of times but if it was not beneficial for his own score he just let them die.
Disappointing and relativating Jarls'. I hope not everybody in that rank is like him.

Thats one....interpretation.

Here's another one.

Many players do bad stuff, like really dumb stuff all the time.

Theres a pretty substantial amount of players that e.g. dont yet know, that it is advantageous to not give team red center/high ground vs an unorganized pug team that will then, when surrendering high ground/center, by default start its stretching, ever so slow, dull rotation counter clock wise.

If hes been around a long time and is pretty good, then hell be annoyed, just annoyed, to be in a position to have to tell the team again and over again a thousand times....

'Try to take center asap'.

You just expect to be dropped with ppl with at least remotely the same experience.

You see somebody that is only concerned with his or her stats, Id prolly just see somebody that is just way too lazy to always state the obvious a billion times over and over again.

I can totally understand him.

Go go QP right now, to so called Tier 1 - x matches, and watch, as entire assault lances break off e.g. a center trade, to chase a single medium, immediately loosing the match by abysmal allocation of ressources and mechs. I dont even know how it is possible to not understand that that is dull move of ppl that just arent very smart at all.

Why should he/she, always state something that any life form with an iq bigger than 1 would immediately understand.

And then you come here and try to smash that player that hes so egoistIc.

You, were the real problem, my dear.

It was your fault to not tell other players the following.

'Guys and girls, lets follow xy, I think he/she knows what theyre doing'.

Why should he lead just cause he got skills.

Its way more important to me that I do well than to always win if that means I have to constantly state the obvious like not to try and chase a light with 100 assaults.

In my opinion youre the one that failed not him. He prolly did hundred times more dmg and was a way more valuable war machine than you. You just salty cuase hes got more moves than you.

Better aim.

Better map awerness,

More components.

More. money.

More fame.

Just more badass.

You dont like that thats why you try to smash him.

Kinda pathetic if you ask me.

[Vxheous]

Phoolan Devi, on 14 September 2019 - 08:43 AM, said:

I'd rather play with players with a kdr below 2 than with players who have a kdr above 3!

Would explain why historically you lose more games than you win

[L057FUNC710N]

Vxheous, on 14 September 2019 - 04:07 AM, said:

WTF did I just read...

What you just read was an enigma, wrapped in a riddle that is a parody of itself unironically....

[Lightfoot]

@OP

To win games you play your team role. Mainly, Lights and Mediums hit and fade, till they take too much damage, but making the opposing team waste their shots, then let the bigger mechs go at it taking a support wingman role. Build your mechs accordingly.

So oddly, Lights and Mediums generally win or lose the game because they set the table for the Heavies and Assaults. Unfortunately PUG pilots are generally chasing or going Daytona to try to run up on the backside and you never leave your teammates if you want the Win.