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Nascar - What Is The Point...


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#1 Leigh

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 01:45 PM

What is the point when you run off and leave your team / assaults behind just to be picked off one by one? It's just a loss most of the time and a waste of time. If you see it happening and people are asking you to slow down or stop, please do so and hold the line. It is just so frustrating.

#2 Prototelis

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 02:05 PM

Don't play slow assaults unless you know how to path. EZ.

#3 Spheroid

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 02:08 PM

What's the point of QP in general? Answer: nothing. Win or loss doesn't mean jack if the matchscore result only differs by 50 in the end. Perhaps people don't give a damn or have personal objectives that don't involve team victory. Certainly playing for a solo kill is less likely if one plays cautiously with a mind to win.

Also movement at least creates some low level of brain activity. I rather have a good idiotic NASCAR than boring Frozen City campfest. Since map conditions are not guaranteed before mech selection you will die of boredom unless you had the luck to bring ER.

Edited by Spheroid, 13 October 2019 - 02:22 PM.


#4 Fergrim

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 03:25 PM

Nascarring is not some low level of brain activity, it's better described as a post mortem reflexive response.

It's what happens in the absence of brain activity. And when it happens in a state of total self-serving logical failure, it happens to the detriment of the assault mechs. Everyone on a team tends to score higher and earn more cbills when the team wins. The team doesn't win because everyone ran from spawn as fast as they could, but as a result of the team generally sticking together. Maps that begin with sniping almost always end with (especially with a smart team) a hard rush to the other side, and just using your mic and asking people to come with you generally works - if the enemy team doesn't do it first. And in that situation, you end up having to be far more aware because you're not just moving automatically in the same direction the whole time. Each one of those engagements has several degrees of difference.

If not meandering in a circle is too difficult, try just meandering in a slightly slower circle. It's more fun and more profitable when you win, and when you have a tiny consideration for other players (aside from for the shockingly high number of sociopaths among us) it's actually more rewarding and more likely to result in a win.

The flippant response to Leigh is bunk. You're likely failing to state your actual disagreement which is that you don't mind it because you don't care what happens, because after the match you're going to say "I did xxx damage" and your friend in discord will talk right past you without listening to tell you they did xxx damage.

I mean, unless you consider yourself one of the thoughtless masses, what would be so hard about empathizing with Leigh's plight here? I mean, is it really so controversial to say that what the majority of players do out of selfishness and a refusal to work with the team and inarguably results in the loss of a huge portion of team tonnage and as a result, a loss... is in fact a painfully frustrating and generally stupid epiphenomena of stupidity itself?

I mean, react genuinely, it's only rarely a pathing issue, but I'm sure both of you have died in an assault when the team just all left you behind when doing a circle in HPG while you were trying to absorb some hits for them and play your role.

Given it's doubtlessly happened to everybody, responding by acting as if you can't empathize and that Leigh is alone in their frustration is just not being nice for the sake of not being nice.

Or 'just accept it, and anyone who cares, there's no point in winning because -disingenuous argument about winning not mattering-' I don't care if my team loses, but I prefer to win as does literally everyone. And not just so I can watch numbers go up. Everyone is trying to win. And if you genuinely aren't really caring, then go do something else that you do care about. Even when I'm in a crap mood, I at least try since in MWO you can't rockstar carry the team and also there are 11 other people who might care about winning or maybe haven't played for years like me and are hoping to earn cbills for a new mech. And given I'm not the only person on earth that matters, i figure still trying to win is just basic social contract material. Simple stuff, treating people how you'd want to be treated and the human result of being aware that you're in a public area as part of a team who are there to have fun and have more fun when they win.

So yeah, Leigh it IS stupid. There's no real point, but it's simply what happens in the absence of any real leadership. Since in that instance, people naturally go feral and act like a flock of starlings or a school of fish. Keep moving, stay a group. And then, given it's leaderless, braindead, autonomic response - the only way to both keep moving and stay a group is generally to travel in a circle. So there's your answer, it's not an agreed upon strategy, it's just pure reflex and a smart team WILL slow down just enough to keep their assaults with them which works out fine because then the other team also slows down because it's taking fire from assaults. If it doesn't, its assaults get picked off. It gets more pronounced in smaller maps with large central features because basically rather than actually walking forwards in a circle what you have happening is everyone on the team trying to hide behind everyone else, which results in a leapfrogging like action, that appears to be purposefully shuffling like braindead zombos in a circle.

Hope I could answer your question. I play assaults frequently and the way I've found around it is to be SUPER on top of it and hyper minimap aware. I'm burning fusion hard from the start to be with my team and hopefully be noticed enough that they don't run off and I try specifically to hang with our other assaults. and on the map that's the WORST for it, HPG, what you can do is actually duck underneath if you start to get left behind and either cut across or make a stand. Because from directly underneath your teammates are always close enough to help, and likely will in their desperate self-interested attempts to get kills (or maybe they even just want to help Posted Image). Also remember when you're in the lighter mechs always try to escort the biggest slowest assaults, especially on nascar maps. Even just saying in chat "someone help me escort this DW?" generally snaps everyone out of their sleepwalking state. Because if normal non-sociopaths like us don't do that, we're just being huge hypocrites.

Edited by Fergrim, 13 October 2019 - 03:34 PM.


#5 Apache1990

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 03:34 PM

Can't get left behind by nascar if you're standing in the center of the platform on HPG.

#6 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 03:36 PM

Unless people are using VOIP to actually communicate and work together... /shrugs... You are tier 1 and have been for awhile. You primarily pilot an assault, attempt to provide direction or follow the advise of provided in post # 2. It is amazing how at least one person providing consistent direction/encouragement can change the feel and direction of a drop.

With that said there are 2-3 maps that really needs a change in spawn location/order for the assaults/Charlie Lance, Caustic Valley and Old Frozen City/Night.

#7 FLG 01

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 03:39 PM

Nascar has a 50% win chance. It is very unfortunate that this chance often is more attractive than sticking with passive, insecure, lock-begging, back-standing or evasive assaults.

A good assault is worth its weight in gold. In reality however, most assaults are either piloted by bloody beginners or plain bad pilots who are not worth supporting. Few assaults pilots live up to their roles as king of the battlefield because it needs skill, experience and aggression. Few of MWO players have it, regardless of weight class piloted. It is just most obvious in case of assaults. Most should stick to medium or heavy Mechs and learn the game first.
But no... a medium is not glorious enogh. It has to be the most powerful, yet most challenging weight class.

Time and again I have seen assaults initiating nascar. Too often assaults head to the right and evade the enemy. What exactly does a lance of Atlai, Dire Wolves and Supernovae expect? That a Crab or a Phoenix Hawk holds the position an assault lance gave up? Of course they will speed to the right, just like the assaults. And of course they are faster. Welcome to nasar.
It is simple: an assault who holds the line might be abandoned. An assault who runs will be abandoned. If you fail to live up to that one truth, nascar is inevitable.

#8 Apache1990

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 03:44 PM

View PostFLG 01, on 13 October 2019 - 03:39 PM, said:

Time and again I have seen assaults initiating nascar. Too often assaults head to the right and evade the enemy. What exactly does a lance of Atlai, Dire Wolves and Supernovae expect? That a Crab or a Phoenix Hawk holds the position an assault lance gave up? Of course they will speed to the right, just like the assaults. And of course they are faster. Welcome to nasar.
It is simple: an assault who holds the line might be abandoned. An assault who runs will be abandoned. If you fail to live up to that one truth, nascar is inevitable.


IMO one of the biggest issues that pops up is assaults that are nascar-ing, but not firing at enemies that reveal themselves to their sides and rear; they simply continue walking away and hope the incoming fire will stop. They forget that the best way to make incoming fire stop is to suppress or destroy the enemy.

But walking backwards toward your team while firing is hard, Posted Image.

#9 Fergrim

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 03:46 PM

Yes, I agree with this regarding providing direction.

Like I had said as well, saying a few words into the mic can really help. However when it comes to the top of HPG. Don't act like that's just simple, that also seems to be lacking in terms of being genuine.

Sure it's a good place to be, but rushing to the top involves good communication and a team that's willing to cooperate. Also, for the assaults it's an ALL IN proposition it either works and things are great or it fails to work and the assault dies alone just off the top of the ramp.

Also Leigh, I hope I was clear, the nascarring itself is no one's fault. Like, the strategy was never suggested by or championed by anyone. It's just what happens.

And despite just thinking it's a boring and unfortunate way to play as far as I go, I agree that there are often solutions and it rarely, if ever caused me to die once I began to think of it as an almost scientific behavioral inevitability.

However I still don't think Leigh deserves all of the "Pffft stupid, just do X" responses. Everyone's been annoyed by dying alone in their assault or when your team was going to follow you and they decide only once you're too far in that they'd rather not.

Doesn't take there being no solution to be able to show some empathy, especially when it's a near certainty that everyone here has experienced an identical frustration.

#10 Fergrim

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 03:50 PM

And I don't see how some assaults being bad players is at all relevant.

"Some assaults are bad players, so there's no reason to support your teammates"

I just don't understand the point of this.

You realize your statement could be reproduced identically except with the reference being to ANY other weight class? The fact that some people play poorly or that some people are sociopathic and incapable of seeing the reasoning behind teamplay isn't really a good reason to disregard everyone as a result.

#11 Prototelis

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 04:15 PM

^ 10/10 will leave you behind every time.

I don't know what you're doing, but its bad.

#12 Leigh

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 04:18 PM

View PostFergrim, on 13 October 2019 - 03:46 PM, said:

Yes, I agree with this regarding providing direction.

Like I had said as well, saying a few words into the mic can really help. However when it comes to the top of HPG. Don't act like that's just simple, that also seems to be lacking in terms of being genuine.

Sure it's a good place to be, but rushing to the top involves good communication and a team that's willing to cooperate. Also, for the assaults it's an ALL IN proposition it either works and things are great or it fails to work and the assault dies alone just off the top of the ramp.

Also Leigh, I hope I was clear, the nascarring itself is no one's fault. Like, the strategy was never suggested by or championed by anyone. It's just what happens.

And despite just thinking it's a boring and unfortunate way to play as far as I go, I agree that there are often solutions and it rarely, if ever caused me to die once I began to think of it as an almost scientific behavioral inevitability.

However I still don't think Leigh deserves all of the "Pffft stupid, just do X" responses. Everyone's been annoyed by dying alone in their assault or when your team was going to follow you and they decide only once you're too far in that they'd rather not.

Doesn't take there being no solution to be able to show some empathy, especially when it's a near certainty that everyone here has experienced an identical frustration.


I appreciate your feedback. I remember way back when nascar was never a thing. I left for a couple years to come back to this circle jerk. Most of the time it doesn't bother me, but today 4 out of 5 matches resulted in the team running as fast as they can away just was unbearable. This is even after multiple attempts in chat to get people to slow down, stop. or hold the line.

I only posted this for awareness of the issue and to be mindful of other players. We're not all mindless zombies going counter-clockwise all the time right? I have tried in the past to back up other assaults left behind which results in an auto 0-2 or 0-3 down from the start, Can't win them all, but worth a try.

#13 Jman5

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 04:37 PM

If you want to know why people do it, it is very, very simple. Running counter clockwise will naturally give individual players winnable fights with the option to fall back. Going clockwise means running head on into the entire enemy team with no safe fallback. That is not a viable option without a drop caller getting everyone on board to back you up.

Whining about why random people who aren't communicating with each other do something accomplished nothing the first time a thread like this was created and will accomplish nothing the 1000th time a thread like this is created. If you want your team to do something different, you have to take control over VOIP and drop call. Most times, if your plan isn't completely dumb, people will humor you.

I played a game earlier today where someone suggested we camp our base and let them come to us while he "scouted". Everyone shrugged and played along.

The actual tactic is less important. The more important thing is that everyone is on the same page. When NASCAR breaks down it's because people are not on the same page. Some people stand in one spot or head clockwise toward the entire enemy team. Others are heading counter clockwise. That breakdown in cohesion leads to losses.

Edited by Jman5, 13 October 2019 - 04:37 PM.


#14 General Solo

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 04:53 PM

View PostFergrim, on 13 October 2019 - 03:46 PM, said:


Also Leigh, I hope I was clear, the nascarring itself is no one's fault. Like, the strategy was never suggested by or championed by anyone. It's just what happens.
.....began to think of it as an almost scientific behavioral inevitability.

...................they decide only once you're too far in that they'd rather not.



Dude I feel for ya, it sux being that assualt.
But when that happens, if you win it takes the sting out a little tiny weeny bit.
And thats what Nascar is about. Winning

You see NASCAR doesnt just happen. It doesnt. I for one plan to NASCAR every game in my assault mechs. Mostly the non 54kph ones but some times dem too. Some times leading the NASCAR in 54kph mech 100Ton.

Strange assault mech pilot you might say
But not really. If you watch End of game Screen after a NASCAR win you will see some assualt pilots with big kills and damage after NASCAR game.

You should remember their names and follow dem when they are on your side, to learn the ways of the assualt NASCAR wae's.

They prove that its not impossible.
Much good add vice if your search forum for nascar and ignore the unsuccessfull.

NASCAR is not the problem, skillgap and a busted A$$ match maker that makes such match up possible is.

But we cannot fix dat, but we can listen to guid assualt pilots who surf the NASCAR regular and dont fear it.

Its not impossible their is a way.
After all two teams nascar one team WINS
50% - 50%

Edit: I think not.Its a skill like any.



View PostFergrim, on 13 October 2019 - 03:50 PM, said:

And I don't see how some assaults being bad players is at all relevant.

"Some assaults are bad players, so there's no reason to support your teammates"

I just don't understand the point of this.

You realize your statement could be reproduced identically except with the reference being to ANY other weight class? The fact that some people play poorly or that some people are sociopathic and incapable of seeing the reasoning behind teamplay isn't really a good reason to disregard everyone as a result.


Dude I think you would agree that players should be divided by skill level for maximum enjoyment, much like sports.

Ideally matchmaker, if match maker worked better then their would be different skill pool suited to each player.
But due to PGI's decision to make Tier a kind of progression progress bar, has limited the match makers ability to functionally sort players by skill.

So here we are and their nothing we can do about MM and skill pools.

So your seeing some better players in your games, and your being kinda owned because of skillgap.

Some better players see this and are trying to give advice, others are less helpfull.
Maybe ignore dem is my advice.
Its the Interwebz after all and their are forum and in game tools to help


View PostLeigh, on 13 October 2019 - 04:18 PM, said:


We're not all mindless zombies going counter-clockwise all the time right?



Dude its not mindless, its all part of a cunning and clever plan.
We nascar, if you can't cope then we NASCAR more.
For The Win

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 13 October 2019 - 05:26 PM.


#15 General Solo

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 05:10 PM

For me I think this way about nascar when in my assualt mech.

I follow short paths after learning from successfull players by following them when they are on my team. Like Bowser from EMP, he has taught me many shortcuts. Posted Image

Next, if for some reason they catch me, I think, Mmm
Not long before I die, I need to stall as long as possible to give nascar a chance and spam my weapons till dead which may be soon. OVERIDE
Also I think every shot must count as I dont have many, coz maybe certainly dead, coz caught by nascar right.

Well now this is the part that most unexperienced and some experienced too mess up.
They run in PANIC.
Really where you gonning to run to, your an assualt mech not a flea, plus your showing them you back.

Not good.

What to do, well their is context, but as a general rule turn around a get a quick kill. Its amazing what a quick kill or dismemberment does to a light mechs plans. They die or run away mostly or come back and die, take your pick.

This also stalls the enemies momentum, sometimes enough to nascar for effect and save your big assault but.
Often not, (doh I rarely get caught in the first place) but hey if you win mostly it hurts but is some how ok to me, if we win Worth it

But that only happens when I trip up some how, like my pathing or being dumb trying to save some one.
Why dumb, you say. Well I counted the times I tried to save some one and all were failures.
No point banging my head.

I can do the teams chance of winning more good by getting kills rather than trying to save some one, that will get us both killed. So the team is down two mechs rather than one mech.

So in my opinion its better to attack and get two kill and be two kills up rather than save that guy.
He was going go any way, no point being two mechs down.

Better to be two up
Opportunity cost

Shake n Bake


But running away and getting shot in the back never works

Edit: Get away if you can but torso twist so they hit your arm more and your back less.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 13 October 2019 - 07:53 PM.


#16 JediPanther

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 06:30 PM

Some mechs are just too slow to use. If your assault is being lapped by the enemy assaults you need a bigger engine with more speed.

#17 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 07:23 PM

I have come to accept that doing 500+ damage and getting a kill or two is what I can achieve when skilling up assault mechs. It's too hard to constantly keep telling where the enemies are and even pop a UAV in a vain effort that the team stops and looks at the mini-map even momentarily.

If you want to have a good time in QP, bring a fast mech or something that has a lot of dps. A dakka Madcat for e.g., or something agile and tanky like the Sleipnir 'cause even though it can be slow, it can take the damage and punch back long enough to do 800+ damage and get the kills. Sometimes, a match can be devoid of sanity but that's what it is. My suggestion is to make friends and move to FW. There are enough top players around who are sick of NASCAR Queue and willingly take in new players into their group for FW.

#18 Burning2nd

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 12:20 AM

Once i realized that you can do 500+ damage in a 19.9 ton mech that does 167.6 kph..

it became quite apparent that this game is a little broken, The point of "nascar" (*which is funny cause you can tell none of you watch race'n) is to not be stationary

I have no sympathy for you when your top speed is 40 or 50 something AND YOU ARE STOPPED, or even better yet.. IN REVERSE

this whole "nascar" conversation is strait up just armature pilots who have not learned how to point and shoot and walk a different direction all at the same time..

granted there are some really good assault pilots, where i have 16 days of cockpit time in a lct, they have 16 days of cockpit time in a fafnir Or banshee... what ever it is that they are good in

and i can tell you as someone who has no problem running thru the team.. when you come across someone who has the days of cockpit time in an assault.. you know

it can be very difficult to knock down an assault pilot who knows what they are doing.. even after you get them alone: I know ive had some great duels with some of you pro assault pilots...

but none of the pro assault pilots are cry'n NASCAR

#19 Dee Eight

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 02:25 AM

See in battletech it didn't matter so much that your assault mech was slow... because any mech really was as agile as any other... in one game turn, you could 180 turn your assault to face a flanker that got behind you. In this game... not really possible. Thus... tactics that have the faster unit out turning the slower one, is usually the correct tactic to play.

#20 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:10 AM

View PostLeigh, on 13 October 2019 - 01:45 PM, said:

What is the point when you run off and leave your team / assaults behind just to be picked off one by one?

What is the point to NOT leave your clueless team / assaults behind?





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