11 replies to this topic

[Jackal Noble]

Up on Steam from the Paradox sale FYI, first time I've seen the DLC on sale, and honestly the only time I've been enticed to pick up the dlc. Each was 9.99 relative to 19.99 a pop.

The sale is only for another 21 hours...

I know this will get re-directed but hopefully a few souls unaware will see it before it does.

Edited by Jackal Noble, 20 October 2019 - 11:17 AM.

[Nik Reaper]

Honeslty for what they contain, that's about as much they are worth really , but Paradox sets the price... good/bad thing I got them at 30% off.. might have waited for 50% off X) .

Also heavy metal has a trailer now , they made there own new mech "Bull Shark" with a thumper cannon.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 20 October 2019 - 11:41 AM.

[Jackal Noble]

Ya, the season pass is technically ~50% too, and that includes the Heavy Metal. I just picked up flash and urban because I still haven't finished the base campaign, despite having ~140 hours in it. I play a lot of side missions and then occasionally a story mission before taking a break.

[Koniving]

Now how come nobody says "well that's what they're worth" for the mech packs to help drive the ridiculous price down?

PGI:
"We made a mech and some variations, did a unique paintjob or two and ported in the existing paintjobs and recycled some animations. So it's 15 to 20 bucks and up to 70 bucks for the full set."

Playerbase: "Shut up and take my money!"
After years of it: "Meh."

HBS: within 6 months of a game's release.
"We've given you new maps for existing biomes, a new biome with yet more new maps, some new story content, added some more mechs with original animations, added some other trinkets and we're asking 9.99 to 19.99. Oh and we're releasing some stuff for free, too."

Playerbase: "Is it half off yet? That's about all it's worth."

o.O;

HBS: Almost a year after a game's release.
"We've added more stuff, including a total of 10 mechs, two of which you'll get for free even if you don't buy our new DLC, all with original animations. We've also made new weapons including an original weapon we conjured out of space dust... We've also brought in new characters, new story elements, new mission types, new...new...new..."

Half the playerbase: "Already got the season pass."
Other half the player base: "Is it half off yet?"

I wonder if we're sending the wrong messages about what we want since we treat laziness good and grinding out content as bad..

Edited by Koniving, 20 October 2019 - 01:36 PM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Hopefully PGI takes some lessons from HBS with MW5. I could use more stories and worlds/maps in a DLC instead of just a mech.

[FRAGTAST1C]

PGI needs to make sure that the game is moddable first and foremost. Then they need to add some new types of areas like what HBS did with Urban Warfare (urban and jungle biomes). Let's hope there aren't any maps with a big central structure....

[Koniving]

FRAGTAST1C, on 20 October 2019 - 06:43 PM, said:

PGI needs to make sure that the game is moddable first and foremost. Then they need to add some new types of areas like what HBS did with Urban Warfare (urban and jungle biomes). Let's hope there aren't any maps with a big central structure....

Given the tile-nature of the map generation, unless they "build" a tile with a giant central structure, I think it's safe that there won't be any in the generated maps.

Here, time-skipped to where they show it, you can see a rough idea of how the generator works. There's tiles placed for important key features and from there it connects the tiles in reasonable ways, sets pathing nodes within a given ruleset and in some of them you can see that spawnable elements begin trying to establish patrol routes even during the setup. I'm kinda impressed as it beats manually laying down patrol routes and pathing nodes for AI in Deus Ex 1 for the Unreal Engine.

MeiSooHaityu, on 20 October 2019 - 05:39 PM, said:

Hopefully PGI takes some lessons from HBS with MW5. I could use more stories and worlds/maps in a DLC instead of just a mech.

To be fair, Russ mentioned a DLC in 6 months and 12 months with a hopeful tone. It would make sense that a reasonably sized DLC at some point could potentially add Clan invaders, or Comstar (as that was the question that had him reveal plans of DLC in the months to come).

I dunno if it'd add story, but one would hope. That's sort of the one thing that's hard for your average joe to mod into a shooter.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Koniving, on 20 October 2019 - 01:34 PM, said:

Now how come nobody says "well that's what they're worth" for the mech packs to help drive the ridiculous price down?

I wonder if we're sending the wrong messages about what we want since we treat laziness good and grinding out content as bad..

Those prices are the way they are because the game developers basically have a monopoly over the franchise. Since TT gaming can be expensive, I can only think the pricing is the way it is because the developers know the whales and mechdads will fork over the money. Game developers can get away with these prices because there are no laws or government regulations set in place for video game content.

Also, there is something called nostalgia bait which anyone with nostalgia attachment will fork over cash for no matter what the situation is. I was a victim with MK:11, and it was the first game I truly regret pre-ordering out of my entire game library. Most people with common sense will never spend money on an IP again if they feel like they got ripped off on a product. Fortunately, I don't regret any of my purchases on MW:O but I can definitely understand and feel for the ones that did.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 20 October 2019 - 07:19 PM.

[Koniving]

Arnold The Governator, on 20 October 2019 - 07:15 PM, said:

Those prices are the way they are because the two IP's basically have a monopoly over the franchise. Since TT gaming can be expensive, I can only think the pricing are the way they are because they know the whales and mechdads will fork over the money. Game developers can get away with these prices because there are no laws or restrictions set in place for reasonable pricing.

Also, there is something called nostalgia bait which almost all whales will fork over cash for no matter what the situation is. Most people with common sense will never spend money on an IP again if they feel like they got ripped off on a product. Fortunately, I don't regret any of my purchases on MW:O but I can definitely understand the ones that did.

Have you ever encountered DLC out there?
The typical price for DLC for most games that adds maps and the like is about 15 bucks. Sometimes less.
So it has little to do with monopoly over the franchise.

Now for MWO, the prices are that way because the average "free to play" shooter charges around 5 bucks to 'rent' a weapon, or to point out a specific example 9.99 for a permanent handgun, 19.99 for a permanent LMG or SMG, 25 for an AR or 30 for a sniper rifle. To use another free game for a reference point, 10 dollars for a light robot, 20 for a medium robot and 30 for a heavy robot. War Thunder, which does not have a monopoly of tank franchises, has "bundles" for 109.98 which appears to be like two tank sets plus a single decal and a forum title.

So one could get DLC for a game that has actual content for like 20 bucks (or less if you pre-bought it with a seasonal pass) but people ***** it being too much, but they don't, in your own words, "regret their purchases" when all you get is a mech you could've gotten through playing the game for 15 to 20 bucks, with piss poor reused/spliced animations that in the case of double-kneed mechs will completely ignore an entire joint in their movement, and for some it isn't so much the mech that compels the purchase as much as the hope that maybe, just maybe, in the next 3 years, PGI will provide a single map if we buy enough of them, because according to PGI maps cost 120,000 USD to make (where games with a total budget of 200k are producing dozens of maps).

Which is why I question what signals we are sending when a developer gives us content and we're like "is it half off yet 'cause that's all its worth", when no one does that for a mech pack when it first comes out. I mean we're getting 8 mechs for the purchase with completely original animations as well as the paintjobs and such plus a bunch of things. But people will jump and chomp at the bit for a 20 dollar mech on MWO, even as they complain about how it's just "another of the same" and "poor hardpoints" and "inferior to Madcat II" etc. etc.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

The DLCs for BT may be a bit greedy compared to the expansion packs of yesteryear (well... not that much, compared to the two 'Mech Packs for MW4, honestly), but... considering the quality of the games HBS has brought out, I'm inclined to cut them some slack. An overpriced DLC in exchange for another Battletech, or Shadowrun? Yes, please. Thank you. May I have another? IMO they're one of the few developers out there who have earned some credit. If it funds the next release, and the next release matches their previous offerings, it'd be worth it. I bought both BT expansions at full price and I don't regret it for a second.

[Nik Reaper]

Koniving, on 20 October 2019 - 07:34 PM, said:

...

Which is why I question what signals we are sending when a developer gives us content and we're like "is it half off yet 'cause that's all its worth", when no one does that for a mech pack when it first comes out. I mean we're getting 8 mechs for the purchase with completely original animations as well as the paintjobs and such plus a bunch of things. But people will jump and chomp at the bit for a 20 dollar mech on MWO, even as they complain about how it's just "another of the same" and "poor hardpoints" and "inferior to Madcat II" etc. etc.

I feel like that is mostly directed my way, so I will say I have ever only bought the MW5 preorder ( thus the Marauder II pack ) and only because 15 or so years ago I said I would.
I always thought that mechpacks are no where near worth the price they were set at and never bought any. I only ever got some MC for things that seemed fair enough and to throw them a bone as I had fun with there game.

BT's prices, in my opinion, were expertly priced for the base game, everything about that game speaks how very focused it's development was, considering it was a kick starter with a base idea of skirmish against AI, then PVP and finally a campaign.
It was not a AAA game and it did not cost as much, so much potential for fun game play that went unexplored due to development restraints. And now they price the season pass ( without discount ) as a new AAA game and deliver a very mixed bag of content.
By witch I mean, sure new biome's... basically re textures and only a few new map layouts ( the city maps were a bigger deal and ECM, as un-optimally introduced, was welcome ) , about 4 mechs ( some with variants) per DLC and about 10 small scenarios that are barely scripted outside custom pre mission and post mission dialogue.
It really depends on what you value and how much, a few hours to run through those rather welcome but unfulfilling flashpoints, get a few mechs that are less desirable (worse potential builds) than those one already had and a few travel events? every ~3 months? ... about 15$ at most if you ask me, and that is what I paid for them.

I agree that mech packs seem ludicrous now looking at them ( always have if you ask me ), but just because of that doesn't mean that I will look at the worst idea and praise everything that is better than that, I'm not responsible, nor did I encourage the purchase of MWO mech pasks but I did discourage people of buying BT DLC's at full price as PARADOX is known about being less then ideal at pricing DLCs for the games they publish and do not want to encourage them at raising them for the next installment of BT that is likely to come some some time in the foreseeable future. In other words I'm only vocal about thing I will actually buy , so I didn't feel I needed to tell people to not buy mech packs as I never did or wanted to buy them, BT DLCs I did and formed an opinion that I shared.

[Koniving]

Not as much directly as the general mindset.

Paradox isn't so much terrible at pricing DLCs (after scouring all of its games, the prices range from 1.99 to 19.99 across all their games for individual DLC releases) as much as producing dozens to hundreds of DLC for a game for over 7 years after the game was released, and cumulatively you'll see many hundreds to over a thousand dollars needed to collectively consume all of it. The company isn't so much known by models like EA where it pumps out a "new game" every year, but it pumps out additions and DLC for its games for as much as a decade after the fact.

In the year 2030, HBS Battletech may still be releasing DLC. Flashpoints, while not as expansive as it could have been, immediately filled a niche concept that I felt was missing (multi-day missions), and over time there's plenty of room for them to expand the game. I know one of the things I would really appreciate is bringing more than one lance with larger campaigns and the ability to use vehicles.

On the cheap end, I agree about biomes. However for Biomes to have a unique look requires more than simply new textures, as often they require new atmospheric assets. In the case of the cityscape, quite a few assets.