73 replies to this topic

[Kat Baran]

justcallme A S H, on 29 October 2019 - 09:21 PM, said:

I'm saying don't use them to call/direct a match when you are objectively bad at the game, have no tactical awareness etc etc. You're better off saying nothing and not sending your team to their death. No plan is better than one that is going to get you all killed. At least carry players can attempt to carry. You cannot carry if you're stuck in a bad play because of poor calls. And then what is even worse is players then call similarly poor movements in other games and think it is all good and well.

Now if you actually have an idea - comms / drop call your heart out.

I can say as noob - if I call I call if a torso or center is open. UAV up/down. Calling enemy position...That´s something helpful in my opinion. At least only informations - take them or forget them....

If there is a map I know an "easy" strategy I call a way (like hpg highground, frozen 7-line and NOT valley....).
If somebody else is calling I am fine with that but the silence and everybody is running and shooting random.....not my taste of "fun gaming".

YES you are not that concentrated on your own gameplay if you call - you need to keep the overview.

But for me this is a teamgame and I want to reach teamplay. Focusing fire, helping assaults,...
I don´t want to use my teammates as meat shields....but everybody has his way to do so.....and is it the "i want good stats?" or the "i want fun during games?"

And I understand if a comp player who really spends that much time in strategy etc is frustrated in QP through calling....I mean....it´s rare that they all follow commands....if you are comp or not doesn´t matter...so you focus on your stats and your good feeling...i totally understand. But I want the communication - even if I suck.


So perhaps we can say:

Sharing information and really "calling" are two different things.

And in my opinion you can´t do something wrong if you share that a ct is open etc....

________________

btw i hate nascar.....I get lost behind because I try to hold the fireline....other story....

[Vxheous]

Kat Baran, on 30 October 2019 - 07:48 AM, said:

I can say as noob - if I call I call if a torso or center is open. UAV up/down. Calling enemy position...That´s something helpful in my opinion. At least only informations - take them or forget them....

If there is a map I know an "easy" strategy I call a way (like hpg highground, frozen 7-line and NOT valley....).
If somebody else is calling I am fine with that but the silence and everybody is running and shooting random.....not my taste of "fun gaming".

YES you are not that concentrated on your own gameplay if you call - you need to keep the overview.

But for me this is a teamgame and I want to reach teamplay. Focusing fire, helping assaults,...
I don´t want to use my teammates as meat shields....but everybody has his way to do so.....and is it the "i want good stats?" or the "i want fun during games?"

And I understand if a comp player who really spends that much time in strategy etc is frustrated in QP through calling....I mean....it´s rare that they all follow commands....if you are comp or not doesn´t matter...so you focus on your stats and your good feeling...i totally understand. But I want the communication - even if I suck.


So perhaps we can say:

Sharing information and really "calling" are two different things.

And in my opinion you can´t do something wrong if you share that a ct is open etc....

________________

btw i hate nascar.....I get lost behind because I try to hold the fireline....other story....

You still play this game? Calling out damage components, etc is fine. Telling the entire team to hide in low ground out in Zimbabwe because "strats" is just stupid, which is what Ash is pointing out.

[Kat Baran]

Vxheous, on 30 October 2019 - 07:55 AM, said:

You still play this game?

why are you wondering? XD

yes it just sounded like "just be silent if you are not good in mwo".... so the information thing was the missing point i wanted to add

[Vxheous]

Kat Baran, on 30 October 2019 - 08:02 AM, said:

why are you wondering? XD

yes it just sounded like "just be silent if you are not good in mwo".... so the information thing was the missing point i wanted to add

Probably because I haven't seen your name appear in the streamers section in awhile, so just curious

[Kat Baran]

Vxheous, on 30 October 2019 - 08:06 AM, said:

Probably because I haven't seen your name appear in the streamers section in awhile, so just curious

#offtopic: had to stop streaming for 2 months - twitch related, no longer affiliate it wasn´t the nascar that kept me away XD

[MTier Slayed Up]

If im using comms im either drunk, trolling mood or a combination of both. You couldn't pay me to drop call a QP game unless someone makes a call that is so astronomically bad that only my smoothing nails on a chalkboard voice will speak up and try to salvage the stupid.

Things like;
"Assaults go cap please"
"Let's go to the basement and hide! Teehee"
"Don't rotate! Sit here and form a half *** firing line so we can get flanked!"
"Everyone focus on caps please!"
"Let's back cap their base and huddle in one tiny square!"

Speaking against any of these lego assembly brains will be met with hostility, usually with a "NUH UH I R SMURT U DUMMY!"

Just clear comms for positivity.

[MTier Slayed Up]

This is for Cold Slaw.

[R Valentine]

Kat Baran, on 30 October 2019 - 07:48 AM, said:

I can say as noob - if I call I call if a torso or center is open. UAV up/down. Calling enemy position...That´s something helpful in my opinion. At least only informations - take them or forget them....

99% of the time I'm ok with casual intel, but I'm on board with Ash on the frustrations of piss poor drop calling that effectively reduces your chances of winning down to 0. At least give me a chance to make my mark on the game, and I fail at that it's my fault, but if the lemmings following captain suicide's orders don't even allow me to sink my teeth into a match I get angry fast.

Kat Baran, on 30 October 2019 - 07:48 AM, said:

But for me this is a teamgame and I want to reach teamplay. Focusing fire, helping assaults,...
I don´t want to use my teammates as meat shields....but everybody has his way to do so.....and is it the "i want good stats?" or the "i want fun during games?"

There's nothing inherently wrong with using your teammates as "meat shields" or even using me at a meat shield. The problem is people's total and utter misunderstanding of how to use a shield to begin with, because any half decent swordsman knows that you can BLOCK AND STRIKE AT THE SAME TIME. So if I'm your shield, you should be shooting while I'm getting shot, not cowering behind me being useless. My being shot presents you with an opportunity that you are squandering, and that is where the failure of "meat shielding" costs you the win. No game is won without incurring damage, but no win is even remotely possible without doing damage.

Kat Baran, on 30 October 2019 - 07:48 AM, said:

btw i hate nascar.....I get lost behind because I try to hold the fireline....other story....

My frustrations with NASCAR are largely due to the inequalities in the spawn points. In comp you can overcome or manipulate these because you get to choose what mech goes to which spawn and move as a unit right out of the drop ship. In QP, placing my Annihilator in Bravo Lance on HPG skirmish is a death sentence. My mech's limitations combined with the average player's natural tendencies have effectively reduced my chances of even surviving the first 2 minutes of match by 60% or more. The same is true in spawning in charlie lance on frozen classic, again placing the slowest mechs away from the natural direction of rotation while placing the enemy's fastest mechs directly behind them. I'm again at the mercy of my teammates to not follow their first instinct, which is a losing proposition, and the alternative of going around just takes my weapons out of the match for that much longer.

[CarloArmato]

Michelle Branch, on 21 October 2019 - 03:23 PM, said:

Sniping in advantageous positions is okay as long as you can aim and are doing consistent damage throughout the match.

Big thanks for saying this out loud.

[PocketYoda]

EU customers run right up the field as per Soccer.

[VonBruinwald]

Samial, on 29 March 2020 - 05:15 AM, said:

EU customers run right up the field as per Soccer.

You mean football right. That American football is Rugby for wimps.

[Lykaon]

Michelle Branch, on 21 October 2019 - 03:23 PM, said:

"I'm NASCARing with my team but we still lose?! Why? " Easy my friend! Did you NASCAR and forget to shoot? It's like breathing, walking, and talking at the same time. NASCARing requires several tasks in order for it to be effective. Does your build consist of a rainbow of lasers? Probably need to fix it. Are you point blanking with LRMs, or using LRMs in general? Probably need to fix it. Are you firing machine guns at 400M and wondering why you didn't do any damage? You need a brain.

This part right here is one of the most important rules of NASCAR. But it may not be as it seems.

Enlightenment is upon you for I shall explain.

The single most potent factor for deciding a win in NASCAR is not anything the players in the match do. The most important factor is what the match maker has decided for us.

Assuming that the players in the NASCAR are of low average competency and can get the concept of rotate and shoot "red" robots every time you can shoot a "red" robot. NASCAR is knuckle dragging simple and requires no real thought beyond rotate-shoot-repeat.

So with that being said we can actually assume that the majority of players can NASCAR since bacteria exhibit more complex behaviors than "rotate-shoot-repeat".

So what matters most? Glad you asked.

Random choices made by a matchmaker algorithm that's what.

What team got the random "ace" pilot what nails down a solid match score nearly every time? They get a +1 NASCAR score.

What team got the assault mech pilot that is AFK for the first 15 seconds of the match? They get a -1 NASCAR score.

What team got a MADCAT MKIIB ? that team gets a +1 NASCAR score.

What team got the LRM boat? that team has a -1 NASCAR score.

Even before we load into a match the match has been mostly decided for us by the algorithm.

So what do we do about it?

Well we could formulate plans that include our team's strength and reduce exposure of our team's weaknesses...but nah that would require neural activity above the microorganism level of stimuli/response.

Instead we should follow this poster's advice and restrict our choices to only NASCAR capable mechs.

Don't be the knucklehead who is AFK at match start.

Maintain basic competence (enough to rotate/shoot/repeat)

Oh and most importantly reject any shred of self agency once the match has begun. You no longer have choices at least not any that really matter.

The almighty algorithm has already decided! Your choices ended in the mechlab.

Edited by Lykaon, 30 March 2020 - 09:52 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

Lykaon, on 30 March 2020 - 09:49 AM, said:

The almighty algorithm has already decided!

You jest but the MM actually has a tendency to stack the skilled players all on the same team.

Find an end of game screenshot, put it through Jarl's and compare the teams player ratings...

Normally the winning team has all the best players (I say normally because there are outliers when the worse players won).

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

VonBruinwald, on 30 March 2020 - 10:01 AM, said:

You jest but the MM actually has a tendency to stack the skilled players all on the same team.

Find an end of game screenshot, put it through Jarl's and compare the teams player ratings...

Normally the winning team has all the best players (I say normally because there are outliers when the worse players won).

sorry, and this is partly in jest, but: you really should use LESS tinfoil for your hat

yeah, the winning side MAY have the better player-average, I won't even go into that, because it is only logical that a 'better side' wins more.
HOWEVER
you make it sound like the MM put them there on purpose. which it CAN'T, cause it doesn't have the tools to determine who is good or bad;

-there is no way to tell a good build from a bad build (though technically.. but nevermind)
-there is no way for the MM to tell if it puts a 'proper' T1 somewhere or if he's a complete ****. he's t1 and that is what the MM uses. since everybody and his dog is t1, there's that..
-nah, I won't go on..

the MM is so lazily implemented, it couldn't do the things you "see" even if it wanted to