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Piranha Games Refuses To Give Me A Refund.


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#61 Guy Humual

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 09:15 PM

View PostFRAGTAST1C, on 18 December 2019 - 07:19 PM, said:


Like I said, we got an email about the EGS exclusivity and also the option to refund the order WHILE keeping all of the MWO swag, no strings attached. If that email got pushed into your spam folder or if you didn't bother checking the MWO website or any site for that matter, then how is it hard to prove that you've been living under a rock?

If you say that you have no obligation to follow the changes, then take them to court. Clearly you're confident of yourself being right. Clearly.

They could take a quick peek at my MWO gaming history. I was last on few days ago, but before that I haven't been on since April. And I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but MW isn't a major game, it's not going to make the local news, nor is it going to get covered by someone like Jim Sterling. I don't follow PGI on twitter and if I'm not playing the game I got no need to visit their web site. I assumed that I'd be getting updates via email and since I didn't receive any I assumed there weren't any. I was busy with work, my father dying, looking after his estate . . . maybe you got lots of free time to follow updates on a game that was coming out later that year but I completely forgot about it.

#62 Guy Humual

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 09:21 PM

View Postingramli, on 18 December 2019 - 07:25 PM, said:

Court may be the answer. I strongly believe email is not a proper way for a "silent consent" though (As one may not check their email regularly, not an obligation IMO). A registered mail would be the minimum requirement for achieve such silent consent.

I'm not going to take them to court, it's under $70 and that's probably too much of a pittance for even small claims court. It'd be nice if they refunded my money but I have zero faith that they will. The only reason I posted here was to share with the community so people don't get burned again.

#63 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 09:22 PM

View Postingramli, on 18 December 2019 - 08:49 PM, said:

even if the company is not obligated by the law to do so, it is still a good idea to entertain the late refund request as a goodwill gesture, for the public image, it does more harm than good being harsh to the customer.


Exactly that. It's a goodwill gesture which I support for OP's case. But I do not entertain certain aspects like, "I didn't check my email but it is still up to you to inform me".

#64 Guy Humual

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 09:25 PM

View PostKnight Captain Morgan, on 18 December 2019 - 05:17 PM, said:

@ OP GUY HUMUAL when Piranha Games said I could have a full refund because they welched on their end of the bargain of a steam key in exchange for my money, I tried to take it. Then they tried to welch on their offer of a refund by claiming, since I preordered more than 6 months ago, I couldn't get a refund in the same way I paid and would have to jump through their additional hoops by setting up a paypal account through which to get a refund. I called them out on their ******** rather vocally through their general forums and was eventually offered a refund through the credit card by which I originally paid.

Bottom line; don't take their ****, call them out on it publicly, after all, they were the ones who publicly advertised preorder steam keys when they knew full well the were going to ditch steam for epic exclusive bull ****.


edit - anti-consumer companies like epic have no reason to oil a wheel until it starts squeaking loudly enough

Thank you for sharing that story. Seems like they tried to renege on people that were within the time frame they laid out. This kind of just shows the company I'm dealing with and how unlikely I'm going to get a refund if someone who asked for a refund within the time frame they set out was given this much trouble.

#65 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 09:26 PM

View PostGuy Humual, on 18 December 2019 - 09:15 PM, said:

maybe you got lots of free time to follow updates on a game that was coming out later that year but I completely forgot about it.


Nope, I just check my emails properly.

Again, I'm not trying to sound rude here. But PGI did inform the players in a few different ways. It might be missed someone who is busy but that person can't be making claims that PGI should do their job better by making sure that one or two "extremely busy" persons should be prioritized.

#66 Guy Humual

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 09:26 PM

View PostFRAGTAST1C, on 18 December 2019 - 09:22 PM, said:


Exactly that. It's a goodwill gesture which I support for OP's case. But I do not entertain certain aspects like, "I didn't check my email but it is still up to you to inform me".

for the record I check my email at least 3 times a week with that account. I don't delete anything and my spam folder had messages in it from 6 years ago when I set up the account.

#67 ingramli

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 09:33 PM

View PostFRAGTAST1C, on 18 December 2019 - 09:26 PM, said:


but that person can't be making claims that PGI should do their job better by making sure that one or two "extremely busy" persons should be prioritized.


NO. One simple fact is, PGI could have change "silent = consent" to "silent = denial" and proceed to refund. PGI could have include a link in the email which leads to a page that you can "opt-in" for the consent, but PGI didnt do so.

#68 Guy Humual

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 09:37 PM

View PostFRAGTAST1C, on 18 December 2019 - 09:26 PM, said:


Nope, I just check my emails properly.

Again, I'm not trying to sound rude here. But PGI did inform the players in a few different ways. It might be missed someone who is busy but that person can't be making claims that PGI should do their job better by making sure that one or two "extremely busy" persons should be prioritized.

How many emails did they send then? Exactly how many did I miss? Prior to the November 21 email my last email from or about MW5 or MWO was February 16th when I added the pre-order bonus stuff to my account. I played for a while after that but I stopped sometime around April.

View Postingramli, on 18 December 2019 - 09:33 PM, said:

NO. One simple fact is, PGI could have change "silent = consent" to "silent = denial" and proceed to refund. PGI could have include a link in the email which leads to a page that you can "opt-in" for the consent, but PGI didnt do so.

Yeah, opting in would have been better than how they handled it for sure. But this way they get to keep my money I guess.

Edited by Guy Humual, 18 December 2019 - 09:38 PM.


#69 Blackstorm

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 09:42 PM

Love how fan bois are so quick to shoot down this person customer experience, where are we, a Bethesda forum?

The game is far from perfect, but it's playable. You deserve a refund if you want one. Make a big deal. Good luck.

#70 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 10:10 PM

Again, before any moron comes in and starts with the outrage, at the risk of repeating myself and a few others about what we thought PGI should've done...

1. The refund period should've been extended to a few days AFTER the release of the Beta (or the demo as it is called now after the delay) or even after the release of the full game.

2. PGI's delayed admittance to taking up Epic offer while still have Steam as the platform to download MW5 from, was incredibly wrong.

3. Offering to refund only if PayPal account was setup is again, terribly wrong.

Having said all of that, you do not get to have multiple emails denoting the same thing like a countdown. It was emailed once and you might have missed it. Completely granted. But, this was also announced on the website and couple of other sites. So, you can claim ignorance to that fact and try for a refund but if you missed out on the deadline, trying to persuade them to refund you is the right call. There's no denying that. But going "Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" and citing a death in your family as a reason to being busy and missing the announcement isn't going to grant you importance. It just means that you missed the announcement. That's it.

#71 Dee Eight

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 10:43 PM

View PostMischiefSC, on 18 December 2019 - 07:47 PM, said:

No. This is 100% false. You may FEEL that way but there's limits to due diligence and reasonable expectation of notification. If, for example, you have a family emergency and are away from home and don't notice a notification of a change in your utility rates you're still responsible for them. If there's changes to a business agreement then there's a reasonable expectation of notification. That's it. It's way less than what PGI did with repeated notifications on every available digital channels plus repeated AMAs.


similarly ignorance of a law doesn't make you not guilty when you break that law.

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#72 Guy Humual

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 11:03 PM

View PostFRAGTAST1C, on 18 December 2019 - 10:10 PM, said:

Having said all of that, you do not get to have multiple emails denoting the same thing like a countdown. It was emailed once and you might have missed it. Completely granted. But, this was also announced on the website and couple of other sites. So, you can claim ignorance to that fact and try for a refund but if you missed out on the deadline, trying to persuade them to refund you is the right call. There's no denying that. But going "Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" and citing a death in your family as a reason to being busy and missing the announcement isn't going to grant you importance. It just means that you missed the announcement. That's it.
I didn't mention my father's passing in my correspondence with PGI, why would they care? I posted it in this thread because I needed to express the full extent of my frustration. Clearly you don't care and that's fine. However making light of my father's passing is in extremely poor taste and speaks to your cold hearted callousness. My argument has not been "I'm busy, my dad died, feel bad for me", my argument has been, "I wasn't informed, I don't want to do business with Epic Games, I would like my money back".

From your response I guess there was only one email telling us that the game was being released with Epic Games? Only one email telling me that I had a limited time to get my money back? You miss that then tough *******? I wasn't living under a rock, I've been following other games, but if they were really serious about keeping me informed had my email, but I didn't receive any emails from Piranha games till after the timeline for a refund they set out had passed. Multiple emails about such big changes would have been the responsible thing to do. If a company is making changes to a product I've paid money for upfront they should at least have the decency to ensure I was informed about those changes. Posting on Twitter (which I don't follow them on), posting on their websites, which I haven't been on since February isn't sufficient in my opinion. Clearly I missed the one and only email they sent on the topic and because of that I'm in a worse situation than if I'd just bought the game this week. Because I preordered I have less rights than someone who didn't put their faith in the company and thus I'm not entitled to a refund.

#73 MischiefSC

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 11:27 PM

By preordering you don't have less rights. That's also untrue. You had MORE rights. A longer window from purchase to refund and numerous additional content provided for the price. If I bought the game on Epic today and then 10 months later decided that since I didn't want it and hadn't played it because a patch in the interim changed the game to some other format I don't get a refund either.



OP got more for the money and had additional rights and privileges than someone who didn't preorder. While PGI sent out notification to email and multiple other media channels OP had a terrible life event and missed it. Everything else aside, my sincere and heartfelt condolences for the loss of your father.

At this point now outside the refund window OP would like a refund. The extenuating circumstances, while genuine and understandable, do not obligated PGI to provide a refund outside the refund timeframe. OP is well within his rights to come here and voice his displeasure over that.

However it's not unreasonable to make clear that PGI absolutely did make reasonable effort to disclose and provided refund options above and beyond what's required in Canada and the US at least. Anyone can FEEL that PGI should have some something different or make an exception or what have you but in no way, shape or form are they obligated to nor did they violate any laws or such. Both notification and refund options were not just bare minimum but atypically generous. They just didn't include to OPs extenuating circumstances.

#74 Horseman

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 11:33 PM

View PostGuy Humual, on 17 December 2019 - 01:41 PM, said:

I pointed this out and then GM Patience lied to me and told me that I'd received an email explaining this back on August 6th. I have an email address specifically for gaming and no such email exists. I have every email from "Mechwarrior Online" "Xsolla" from the past 2 years, and to this date I've only ever gotten two emails from Piranha games, one dated November 21st, and the other December 9th.

The e-mail he's referring to has been sent out - I got mine on August 7th.
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#75 ingramli

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 11:45 PM

View PostMischiefSC, on 18 December 2019 - 11:27 PM, said:

However it's not unreasonable to make clear that PGI absolutely did make reasonable effort to disclose and provided refund options above and beyond what's required in Canada and the US at least.
PGI did make "reasonable effort"? May be. I consider this question a subjective matter. However it is clear that PGI could have done better. They could have include link in the email for people to "opt-in", they could have entertain late refund request for those who are in special circumstance, not being able to access the internet for the notification during the refund window.

May be PGI can get away from legal perspective, but it does not change the fact that they demonstrate themselves being stingy to the customer. Whether or not OP missed the refund window due to the said reason is not the key. It is about public image. PGI showed that they care little about it, period.

Edited by ingramli, 18 December 2019 - 11:46 PM.


#76 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 12:00 AM

View Postingramli, on 18 December 2019 - 11:45 PM, said:

May be PGI can get away from legal perspective, but it does not change the fact that they demonstrate themselves being stingy to the customer. Whether or not OP missed the refund window due to the said reason is not the key. It is about public image. PGI showed that they care little about it, period.


False, 'cause you can't show 1 e.g., where one person was denied a refund based on the time period while ignoring the fact that many people got their refund request fulfilled.

#77 ingramli

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 12:07 AM

View PostFRAGTAST1C, on 19 December 2019 - 12:00 AM, said:


False, 'cause you can't show 1 e.g., where one person was denied a refund based on the time period while ignoring the fact that many people got their refund request fulfilled.


Whether the actual % of people got refund is 90% or 99.99% not important. PGI should acknowledge their notification process is imperfect (let's face it, nothing is perfect). On top of that, they could have honor refund to the customer as long as the game key has never been redeemed (of course, I would consider reasonable to deny a refund request that is made 10 years after the EOL of the game). That is, if their goodwill matters.

Edited by ingramli, 19 December 2019 - 12:08 AM.


#78 Guy Humual

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 05:38 AM

View PostMischiefSC, on 18 December 2019 - 11:27 PM, said:

By preordering you don't have less rights. That's also untrue. You had MORE rights. A longer window from purchase to refund and numerous additional content provided for the price. If I bought the game on Epic today and then 10 months later decided that since I didn't want it and hadn't played it because a patch in the interim changed the game to some other format I don't get a refund either.

The key difference there is that that's 10 months with the game, I've been asking for a refund before the game was released, and in a normal business transaction that's when I should have gotten my refund. Bonuses I received and claimed before the changes were made to my product shouldn't count against me, that's not what I paid for, and seeing as I don't play MWO anymore there's not much value in that bonus content anyways.

View PostHorseman, on 18 December 2019 - 11:33 PM, said:

The e-mail he's referring to has been sent out - I got mine on August 7th.
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Thank you, someone posted this email earlier in the thread, at least now I know it exists. Doesn't help me as I never received it and it seems this was the only email about MW5 regarding the epic games store changes.

#79 Guy Humual

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 05:43 AM

View PostFRAGTAST1C, on 19 December 2019 - 12:00 AM, said:


False, 'cause you can't show 1 e.g., where one person was denied a refund based on the time period while ignoring the fact that many people got their refund request fulfilled.

In your world does the customer always have to ask for a refund months before even a release of a beta to get a refund? Suppose the game didn't work. Just straight up didn't work. People who bought the game on the Epic Store would be able to get a refund but as I didn't ask for my refund before even the beta was release I missed my opportunity.

#80 Nesutizale

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 07:27 AM

Beeing a bit late and overflying things...

I did say compared to loosing your dad the 50-200$ you lost with the preorder are insignificant. Using even the tiniest bit of energie for getting your money back or discussing things to death in the forums is a waste of you time and energy that you might want to spend with something or someone else.





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