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#1 BLOODWOLF333

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 11:52 AM

Been playing for just a week now and had some questions/is this mechanic broken?

1. So you get almost 50k worth of GXP after your first 25 matches and completing all the tutorials but, with it costing 45k to use every 800 for a skill point....I don't find this resource very practical and would rather have c-bills which are the much harder to come-by resource. Gettin' gud is not an instantaneous process so, c-bills seem to be the rarest and most useful resource for me. I've read on a few other forum posts that others have 1M+ gxp they wish they could load into an AC and just fire off so, if the players cant effectively use a resource does that not indicate a broken mechanic?

2. Also after the first 25 matches the game and monetary progression seems to take a nose dive off a cliff and you begin the slow grind. Grinding to get XP for your mech makes sense and many other games do this as well for your character so that is not a problem. But, Im not happy with the monetary pay-out. Many times people are sitting in their heavy and assaults waiting for usually lights or mediums to round out the company so the match can begin so, your funneled into playing as lighter mechs and serving in the scout role if you want to participate. But, your not going to be getting the most kills or the team MVP so <150k per match. If players are not rewarded for playing roles that most players dont want to play as(from what I have observed rarely is a qp game waiting for heavy or assault players to join) then why should anyone ever play as a light or medium?

3. I dont think a team payout pool would be better, nobody likes sharing and people will resent freeloaders who died right off the bat so, idk maybe weight class payment multipliers to reward the player a little more for fielding lighter mechs? Or bump the payout across the board. IMO c-bills should be the more common and easy to generate resource with the high c-bill cost of everything in the game. GXP I would have no problem with it being a rare resource with it being able to be used on any mech and having to grind for it. Or maybe let us covert GXP to c-bills at 1GXP : 56.25 c-bills and that would make my life easier I think.

Just things I have been seeing and opinions, still playing everyday and trying to get gud reading everything and watching YT videos (learned about the bonuses recently and how staying with the group is beneficial).

#2 thievingmagpi

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 12:40 PM

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 04 January 2020 - 11:52 AM, said:

Been playing for just a week now and had some questions/is this mechanic broken?


Unfortunately, for most things in this game.... Working As Intended. Get used to it :D

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 04 January 2020 - 11:52 AM, said:

1. So you get almost 50k worth of GXP after your first 25 matches and completing all the tutorials but, with it costing 45k to use every 800 for a skill point....I don't find this resource very practical and would rather have c-bills which are the much harder to come-by resource. Gettin' gud is not an instantaneous process so, c-bills seem to be the rarest and most useful resource for me. I've read on a few other forum posts that others have 1M+ gxp they wish they could load into an AC and just fire off so, if the players cant effectively use a resource does that not indicate a broken mechanic?



The New Player Experience isn't something that's ever been done well in this game. I don't really have advice in that particular department because it's been a long time since I've needed cbills/xp etc.


But, that said I'd just say don't rush into things. At this point in the game, you're pretty resource limited (cbills, xp, mech bays etc).

Play a while, watch some twitch/yt vids. Get a feel for *where* you need to go as far as spending your resources. (I.e. not wasting things on useless nodes, bad builds etc) A lot of that stuff seems pretty obtuse at this point and it's easy to blow cbills and gxp on dumb things.




View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 04 January 2020 - 11:52 AM, said:

2. Also after the first 25 matches the game and monetary progression seems to take a nose dive off a cliff and you begin the slow grind. Grinding to get XP for your mech makes sense and many other games do this as well for your character so that is not a problem. But, Im not happy with the monetary pay-out. Many times people are sitting in their heavy and assaults waiting for usually lights or mediums to round out the company so the match can begin so, your funneled into playing as lighter mechs and serving in the scout role if you want to participate. But, your not going to be getting the most kills or the team MVP so <150k per match. If players are not rewarded for playing roles that most players dont want to play as(from what I have observed rarely is a qp game waiting for heavy or assault players to join) then why should anyone ever play as a light or medium?




I don't play a lot of mp games so I'm sure someone with experience there could chime in on just how the MWO grind stacks up, but yeah, I agree it can certainly be daunting for new players.

Don't worry about "roles" or anything like that. Focus on winning. Do damage, get kills, don't die. You get rewarded for performance. Personally I prefer lights and mediums. I like the "high-octane" gameplay. Assaults bore me and I'm bad at them. That said, bringing a decent assault is a 1000 damage almost guaranteed each match.

Cbills can really feel like they accumulate slowly. Luckily there are still weekly or semi weekly events where you usually come out with an easy 5 million + cbills, some free skill nodes, premium time and maybe a cool warhorn.

If you're unaware there are 2 different places to check for event completion, both in the game itself at the bottom there's a little Sigma symbol you can click on at the bottom and it will bring up events that run. You can also check the mwomercs website for ongoing events- now typical PGI, some events can only be "cashed out" on the website and not the client and vice-versa, make sure to check both.

The one going on right now has 6 million cbills, 4 days of premium time, and a 800 mc. That's a pretty nice reward.

**Just a tip about premium time, it starts counting down from the time you collect the reward. Try to line up collecting the reward for a time you know you'll be able to maximize the premium time like before a weekend or a period of time you know you can use it. (Don't leave it too long, you've got a limited amount of time you can claim your prize). Premium time is great! 50% Boost to all cbill and XP rewards.


**There's a sale on right now, typical PGI, it's not working completely. Luckily it's going on until the 14th so PGI has 2 weeks to figure its **** out. That said, get all the event rewards/farm that premium time and figure out what mech/mechs you want. Hopefully pgi will fix it in time and you can buy your mech for 50% off. Mech Bays are also 50% off, this only happens a few times a year. With the MC you earn, I'd pick up a couple of mechbays, you'll need them in the future.


View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 04 January 2020 - 11:52 AM, said:

3. I dont think a team payout pool would be better, nobody likes sharing and people will resent freeloaders who died right off the bat so, idk maybe weight class payment multipliers to reward the player a little more for fielding lighter mechs? Or bump the payout across the board. IMO c-bills should be the more common and easy to generate resource with the high c-bill cost of everything in the game. GXP I would have no problem with it being a rare resource with it being able to be used on any mech and having to grind for it. Or maybe let us covert GXP to c-bills at 1GXP : 56.25 c-bills and that would make my life easier I think.


Cbills will come a bit quicker once you've got some more familiarity with the game, and have a properly built and skilled out mech. It's slow going at the start that's for sure.

#3 martian

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 01:30 PM

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 04 January 2020 - 11:52 AM, said:

Been playing for just a week now and had some questions/is this mechanic broken?
...
But, Im not happy with the monetary pay-out. Many times people are sitting in their heavy and assaults waiting for usually lights or mediums to round out the company so the match can begin so, your funneled into playing as lighter mechs and serving in the scout role if you want to participate. But, your not going to be getting the most kills or the team MVP so <150k per match. If players are not rewarded for playing roles that most players dont want to play as(from what I have observed rarely is a qp game waiting for heavy or assault players to join) then why should anyone ever play as a light or medium?

Greetings!

There are some tricks how to boost your income if you are piloting a light 'Mech:

1) Be active. Do not follow heavies and assaults around the battlefield. The greatest advantage of light Mechs is their mobility. Use your speed and jump jets (if equipped) to find the enemy team, to spot, to scout and to flank. All these thing are rewarded with C-Bills. However, remember that your primary tools for C-Bills earnings are your weapons. Bonus for spotting for friendly LRMs is just a secondary thing.

2) Attack enemy 'Mechs. Backstab them, harass them - especially if they are alone or damaged. Concentrate on their vulnerable spots (rear torso armor, damaged sections are shown in red). You can join forces with other friendly light 'Mechs too.

3) Use UAVs. UAV detection and locked damage can boost your earnings.

4) Use Artillery Strikes. Remember that if the enemy team is shaken and in disarray, you will have a better opportunity to get some kills and thus earn some C-Bills. Plus, it is fun. Posted Image

5) Use UAVs and Artillery Strikes. Well placed UAV or artillery strike can significantly contribute to your team's victory and thus to the victory bonus.

6) Buy Premium Time. The current sale offers Premium Time 50% cheaper.

7) Buy Hero 'Mech. It can boost your earnings too. Again, there is a sale and Hero 'Mechs are 50% cheaper.

8) Before you buy a 'Mech, it might be a good idea to ask other players what they think. Some 'Mechs are excellent, while other 'Mechs are not good.


This is just a brief summary of things that I would recommend and I attempt to adhere. This forum has many excellent light 'Mech pilots and they will give you a better and more detailed advice.


As for C-Bills, well-played light 'Mech can give you a good income. You can earn significantly more than "<150k per match".

See these screen captures. The first pair is from this morning.
Posted Image

Good cash and good feeling from the match:
Posted Image

Or check this yesterday's pair of screen captures. We created a good improvised pack with that Flea:
Posted Image

The payout was solid too.
Posted Image

Do not be afraid of piloting Lights, they are fun!

Edited by martian, 04 January 2020 - 01:31 PM.


#4 thievingmagpi

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 01:37 PM

purchasing consumables can be a bit of a cbill sink early on. I'd avoid it until you've got at least a mech or two fully skilled out.

#5 Grumpy Old Man

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 01:47 PM

Also, you can only get 500K+ per match when you use a Hero Mech, which gives you a 30% CBill boost, as well as Premium Time and actually win the game.

Without a Hero Mech, 300K+ is quite possible. I do however agree with not using Consumables for now, because they can eat up your money real quick.

What you might want to do is post some more information about the Mechs and Builds you are using. People might be able to give you some idea's to improve your performance, which will in turn improve your cashflow.

#6 martian

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 01:53 PM

View Postthievingmagpi, on 04 January 2020 - 01:37 PM, said:

purchasing consumables can be a bit of a cbill sink early on. I'd avoid it until you've got at least a mech or two fully skilled out.

I am not saying that it is wrong - it is true, but ...

Well-placed UAV can significantly help your team, show them where the enemy team is, where they are heading, etc. Friendly LRM boats can be useful too, since the will finally have their locks. Posted Image

You earn some cash for UAV spotting and UAV locked damage too. You may have more opportunities to attack enemy 'Mechs and earn more cash, if your team is winning. And if your team really wins, your payout will probably cover the cost of UAV and more.

I guess that it is a matter of opinion, if it is worth it or not. Naturally, it makes no sense to use UAV if the match is obviously lost. Player must think carefully if UAV is worth it.

#7 Brauer

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 02:23 PM

Another trick to keep the bills coming in, make sure to complete events when possible and redeem the rewards. The MC and cbills can be super helpful especially if you're going free to play.

#8 BLOODWOLF333

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 02:52 PM

I bought two bundles the Griffin and Orion ones so have 60 days of premium time. Before this I bought a WLF-2 and a GRF-2N that I have customized. Kept the Sparky(H), GRF-1S(C), GRF-2N(had already invested SP and c-bills into it and I like it), ON1-K(C), and ON1-P(H) and sold the non-hero/champion ON1-K and duplicate GRF-2N after stripping them. Customized them all (been playing mechwarrior since MW2 and megamek/HQ which I used to contribute to) so, I like to spend lots of time in the lab $$$. Also bought another mechbay that was 50% off (total 11 now) and the 4k MC c-bill bundle this payday.

I need to look up some videos on the arty and air strikes idk how they are used. Like do they get placed where your crosshair is located or a certain distance away?

And I am used to classic battletech in regards to customizing so, had to learn PGI's modifcations to all this and made some mistakes. But, if its not a brawler variant then I set the mech to 75-80% armor, maybe JJs if it can equip them, and had to make a whole spreadsheet to figure out the damage-per-minute including duration and cooldown times to prioritize what weapons I want. I wish there was a viewable stat for the mech's total heat capacity, that is new from classic BT and Im unsure on that so, I just assume its at 30 when calculating how many heatsinks to equip.

Every weapon's heat - (any cooling bonuses) x 2 (alpha strikes) - 30 (capacity) / (longest weapon recycle time) * 10/2(convert into # of double heatsinks I need). And I havent had any heat problems since using this formula.

Also read a few guides on here about the skill tree so, am going for max cooling, armor hardening, reinforced casing, and what's left will be conditional depending on the build.

WLF-2 Scout build
Posted Image

Sparky(H) brawler build
Posted Image

GRF-1S(C) Scout/fire support build
Posted Image

GRF-2N stealth build
Posted Image

Protector fire support build
Posted Image

ON1-K(C) brawler build
Posted Image

And kinda seems like this Solaris 7 feature is not the most popular thing. I've never seen more than two people on it at one time and it's hard for me to find matches for the only two divisions I have mechs built for so, have been using the trail mechs in the other divisions.....and they are not always ideal for the whole gladiator situation.

Edited by BLOODWOLF333, 04 January 2020 - 02:53 PM.


#9 Koniving

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 04:08 PM

Long-winded but constructive and hopefully helpful post incoming.

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 04 January 2020 - 11:52 AM, said:

Been playing for just a week now and had some questions/is this mechanic broken?

1. So you get almost 50k worth of GXP after your first 25 matches and completing all the tutorials but, with it costing 45k to use every 800 for a skill point....I don't find this resource very practical and would rather have c-bills which are the much harder to come-by resource. Gettin' gud is not an instantaneous process so, c-bills seem to be the rarest and most useful resource for me. I've read on a few other forum posts that others have 1M+ gxp they wish they could load into an AC and just fire off so, if the players cant effectively use a resource does that not indicate a broken mechanic?



Money isn't exactly hard to come by, however, the tricks to making money are the issues you're having. The game doesn't come right out and say "this is how you make money." Simply fighting and dying doesn't make money. But neither does thinking "I'm just gonna be support and not fight." Making money requires particular things from you.

Stay with the group (preferably your lance for a bigger payout), killing enemies that are killing your teamates pay out more than just killing enemies. Get at least a single shot on every single enemy if possible for a significant increase to your payout. Look for the text that comes up saying things like "staying in formation" "Protected Light" etc. Figure out what generates these, and your payouts will be much better.

Quote

2. Also after the first 25 matches the game and monetary progression seems to take a nose dive off a cliff and you begin the slow grind. Grinding to get XP for your mech makes sense and many other games do this as well for your character so that is not a problem. But, Im not happy with the monetary pay-out. Many times people are sitting in their heavy and assaults waiting for usually lights or mediums to round out the company so the match can begin so, your funneled into playing as lighter mechs and serving in the scout role if you want to participate. But, your not going to be getting the most kills or the team MVP so <150k per match. If players are not rewarded for playing roles that most players dont want to play as(from what I have observed rarely is a qp game waiting for heavy or assault players to join) then why should anyone ever play as a light or medium?

The injections of the first 25 are to help you buy your first mech. With it you'll have a much easier time earning money than with trial mechs. However, now your income is entirely based on what you do while playing rather than a fixed income per mission. The typical earnings range from 120k to 300k cbills for the winning side (you can definitely get higher). The losing side between 25k (did little to nothing) and 75k though I've seen earnings of over 200k on the losing side as well.

Heavies and assaults tend to be easily taken down by skilled lights, though unskilled lights tend to die pretty quickly. Mediums if you keep in the 50 to 55 ton category you should be pretty well off, lighter mediums tend to require certain player skill sets.

Quote

3. I dont think a team payout pool would be better, nobody likes sharing and people will resent freeloaders who died right off the bat so, idk maybe weight class payment multipliers to reward the player a little more for fielding lighter mechs? Or bump the payout across the board. IMO c-bills should be the more common and easy to generate resource with the high c-bill cost of everything in the game. GXP I would have no problem with it being a rare resource with it being able to be used on any mech and having to grind for it. Or maybe let us covert GXP to c-bills at 1GXP : 56.25 c-bills and that would make my life easier I think.

Given the payouts for your actions, lights and mediums tend to have quite a payout favoring them as it's much easier to achieve the things that pile on to give big payouts. First to target an enemy, for example, is only available 12 times in a quickplay match and typically the first guy that finds the enemies will also target them to rack up that meaty payout. Unfortunately these lights sometimes end up doing something stupid and dying first, but someone skilled would be able to do it, get the information out there, and wait until someone else engages them before trying to also rack up the assist kills by getting at least a single shot in on every target.

What heavies and assaults have that lights and mediums don't is staying power. People hate dying. So they think the heaviest walking coffin of armor is gonna let them have the best chance they're going to get. Which may or may not be true. Nobody likes the rest of dying in a single shot as some lights have. A risk you can mitigate by reallocating your armor. If you plan on fighting a light, pump it forward. Running away a light? Pump it backward (unless Jenner/Raven or similar long-bodied light, in which case pump it forward anyway because their backs are tiny squares while the rest of their bodies count as front).

Quote

Just things I have been seeing and opinions, still playing everyday and trying to get gud reading everything and watching YT videos (learned about the bonuses recently and how staying with the group is beneficial).

Not just beneficial to the group either, it's beneficial to your income and your survival. There are times when it's better to go off on your own, a well-timed flank is the difference between an average match and a big payout. However, for any flank to work there needs to be a front line of entrenched mechs keeping the enemy's frontline busy. And every flank can be thwarted by one or more mechs hanging back just a little bit and keeping an eye out.

Welcome to MWO.

On side notes:
My playing environment prevents me from "getting gud" with fast mechs, as such my Light preferences are tanky, slow things with hefty firepower and good positioning, preferably close to an assault that isn't likely to push in too hard but also isn't one to hang back (that's the hard thing to find, however communicating with the team goes a long, LONG way to improving the quality of matches).

My biggest money maker (excluding hero mechs) is the Archer. Specifically the ARC 5W. Full armor, additional health quirks, full tree and this thing tanks better than many assault mechs. Plenty of armor to be on the front row when needed. Four LRM launchers in the STs allow me to chain fire LRMs to pepper enemies from the second row as the firing lines are drawn. From this slightly-behind-the-team position I can still get formation bonuses, be far enough back to see impending enemy efforts to flank us, as well as keep my doors open without fear of being obliterated (as the doors being shut [with launchers installed] give a 20% damage resistance to each body part that has a door]. Since I'm also quite skilled with arm-aiming, my SRMs are the standard variety and used for when lights come to harass me or when I'm out of LRMs, as by then the enemy is incredibly weakened and my armor is usually still strong enough to carry for the team. Typically from fighting like this, my allies are also still alive more often than not since I'm taking care of enemy flanks that would otherwise obliterate my team.

This said, I haven't played since like...last March, and I haven't saved any scores or anything since January 2018 with this Hunchback
Posted Image
(You can tell by the kills I spent most of my time going solo, being among the first to spot the enemies and target them and taking on 6 head to head, though 3 of them I did not get the final blows on as my team showed up finally). (I like to fight isolated enemies when I'm using mediums; more intense, more fun, and usually good pay due to the success). (Overall performance)

Another medium (Wolverine, AC, MGs, and SRMs, conservative play with plenty of time to carry a conversation in text. Overall performance)

Thunderbolt 5S (1 PPC, 3 ML, LRM, 2 LMGs. The evil bracket build... Overall performance. Lot of people weren't having a good day it seems. I myself remember I was away for part of the match because my 3-year-old daughter started a new bad habbit -- climbing the stairs on the OUTSIDE of the rails, all the way to the top. That habit still persists, but now she can make her own way back down and just scares the **** out of her mother.)

Anyway, Archer.
Most recent. Overall It could have been better, but I had taken the front line, and mind you this specific design while it could have better close-range offense, I take personal pride in being cocky enough to fight people with just 2 SRM-2s and dancing in front of enemies. So this was inevitable

Another exceptional Archer one. The match score racks up highly with the support payments, so exceptional match score means you cashed in on the little things. Overall. However, just the little things and damage won't get a high payout (as you'll see toward the end of my scores.) Successful kills are still needed. (Though in the 967 damage one I'm referring to further down, I also didn't spend any time on the front line or have a chance to actively hunt down enemies, and I wasn't the first spotter on anything at all so my pay really suffered for it.)

Another one the same day. (967 damage) Overall My fate. (After scaring off the flanks at least three times, they then flanked from two directions which caused the entire team to turn around and so chase after them, and the front line broke. Since there were more enemies in the flank than assaults at the enemy's front line, this behavior sorta made sense since the entire enemy front line pulled away so we thought the two-prong flank was the whole front line, but soon as it broke the assaults pushed through and I got blasted by one of them. And another one some days before without a full montage of images.

Point being, once you find a money maker you'll have an easier time with things. Even if you take out the 1.5* earnings, still looking at 260 or higher earnings for most of them (except the 967 one, despite the high match score I didn't get any protective bonuses, didn't spend any time on the front line, didn't kill anyone that almost killed a teammate, etc.. basically none of the good-paying stuff).

Be sure to check any event pages frequently for additional rewards; chances are you've been performing in an event and not getting anything due to not checking and claiming rewards.

Also take any advice with a grain of salt, what works for one player won't necessarily work for you. For example
Spoiler


Play to your strengths once you find them, and be aware of what you are not good with.

Another quick tip.
Every once in a while when things are going slow, hit B and take a look at the map and how things are going. I find the matches I do best in are the ones where I take a little time to plan ahead rather than rush in. Though it's hard to say MWO lives up to the motto, it used to call itself the "thinking person's shooter." Whether it's staying calm and planning your moves while under fire or predicting what the enemy is going to do and surprising them, thinking is something that makes this game easier in the long run. It's the days where I don't want to think that I absolutely bomb in performance.

Hope this helps. Good luck out there.

View PostGrumpy Old Man, on 04 January 2020 - 01:47 PM, said:

Also, you can only get 500K+ per match when you use a Hero Mech, which gives you a 30% CBill boost, as well as Premium Time and actually win the game.


(Faction play can provide that too, though I have an example above in which I've got 500+k without a hero mech. Though I was using premium time and won.)
So a hero mech isn't required, but it makes achieving the task much easier due to the additional income boost.

#10 thievingmagpi

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 04:11 PM

Ok, lots to unpack here but these are things that are good to point out early:

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 04 January 2020 - 02:52 PM, said:

And I am used to classic battletech in regards to customizing so, had to learn PGI's modifcations to all this and made some mistakes. But, if its not a brawler variant then I set the mech to 75-80% armor, maybe JJs if it can equip them,



Max armour. Always. Now there may be times in the future once you get comfortable where mechs get some armour shaving here and there, but for now, always max armour. Always (Legs you can usually afford to shave considerably).

More armour = more survivability = more damage = more win. There should pretty much never be a time where you have 10 torso armour to spare.

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 04 January 2020 - 02:52 PM, said:

and had to make a whole spreadsheet to figure out the damage-per-minute including duration and cooldown times to prioritize what weapons I want. I wish there was a viewable stat for the mech's total heat capacity, that is new from classic BT and Im unsure on that so, I just assume its at 30 when calculating how many heatsinks to equip.

Every weapon's heat - (any cooling bonuses) x 2 (alpha strikes) - 30 (capacity) / (longest weapon recycle time) * 10/2(convert into # of double heatsinks I need). And I havent had any heat problems since using this formula.



Yeah some of the heat stats are a bit wonky, but you'll get a good feel for what is playable. What is important in game is making sure you're using every bit of your heat. If you're not operating at like 50% and higher of your heat bar, either you're not shooting enough or you can drop some heat sinks for more ammo/weapons/bigger engine etc. You should more or less be operating at the very hottest you can. High damage games you'll notice you're redlining pretty much the entire time. Getting heatcapped sucks, but it means (as long as your shots are landing) you're putting out lots of damage and damage = wins.


I'll try to address these each as best I can.

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 04 January 2020 - 02:52 PM, said:

WLF-2 Scout build
Posted Image



MPLs are pretty much the "top tier" wolfhound build. If you want a slightly more ranged pokey type build, you can do an ERML build.


https://mech.nav-alp...#19de3398_WLF-2

The combination you've built of erml/erll is just not very efficient when it comes to range, heat and cycle time.

When it comes to lights, there's pretty much no reason to ever run a standard engine. It sounds a little scary at first because its nice to have the survivability of a standard, but it just ain't worth it.

You generally want to build to a mech's strengths. Lights' strengths? Speed. Agility. You want to work to those strengths. In the above build you're faster, all weapons cycle at the same time and hit the same range, you'll get WAY more armour in the front and for lights even a few pts of armour matters a lot.


Your "ideal" wlf-2 is something like this:

https://mech.nav-alp...#a1edb90e_WLF-2

https://mech.nav-alp...#e354e567_WLF-2

It looks a bit daunting, stripping back armour, plopping an xl in there etc- but those are "vulnerabilities" that can be made up with playstyle.



View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 04 January 2020 - 02:52 PM, said:


Sparky(H) brawler build
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Ehhhh, unfortunately Sparky just isn't a great mech, and definitely not in this role. With a brawler you want to spit out damage, not plink away and either some armour or agility quirks. I don't really have any opinions on the Sparky tbh, anything it can do there are a number of other mechs that can do it better. 1 LL and 2MPls just don't sync up well, both in range and cooldown/burn time. Mixing lasers like that doesn't really pay off. You want to maximize damage output at a given range. I'd also avoid putting 5 JJs in. You don't really need more than 2.

What it does bring is a heat a quirk, decent mounts and JJs. If I were forced to build it I'd probably go 6MPLs or 2 ERPPC/2HPPC.



View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 04 January 2020 - 02:52 PM, said:

GRF-1S(C) Scout/fire support build
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1S is just weird. Nothing special about it. You've built one that's a bit too mixed, too many JJs and too little armour.

If I were forced to, I'd probably built it with 2XMRM30 LFE280 and 2jjs. Strip the arm armour to zero- but that might be a bit ammo limited. Can do MRM30, MRM20 and an XL engine to get more speed and ammo.


View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 04 January 2020 - 02:52 PM, said:

GRF-2N stealth build
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Used to be one of the best mechs in the game, has kinda fallen by the wayside. You don't need to bother with stealth on this badboy, you give up a bit too much. ECM is good though.

The other issue is the weapons- no reason for the MPL. You're sacrificing a bit too much to get those in. 2 Tons is also not nearly enough srm ammo and with the griffin you'll absolutely want to make use of its JJs.



Have a look at something like this:

https://mech.nav-alp...9a736e48_GRF-2N

Faster, punchier. Just learn to protect any damaged STs and you'll be fine.


View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 04 January 2020 - 02:52 PM, said:

Protector fire support build
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Unfortunately, the Orion hero just isn't great either- but let's see if we can improve your build a bit.

Right off the bat there's a lot of range overlap. LRM, Gauss and LPPC is just inefficient. That's only going to do small amounts of damage. Also, this is a heavy mech! You should never be leaving that much armour out on the table.

Not many options for this tbh, you could probably do LB10X + 2MRM30


View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 04 January 2020 - 02:52 PM, said:

ON1-K(C) brawler build
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Again, a few too many different weapons doing different things. 2 ML is nothing and a single SRM6 is nothing.

If you bought the Orion pack and want to brawl, have a look at the classic Onion brawler:

https://mech.nav-alp...e6379d78_ON1-VA


What you'll notice is big boom alpha strike. Fire the ac20 and missiles all together and anything you're looking at will hurt.

Also they've frontloaded the armour as usual, since enemies tend to be at your front.


View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 04 January 2020 - 02:52 PM, said:

And kinda seems like this Solaris 7 feature is not the most popular thing. I've never seen more than two people on it at one time and it's hard for me to find matches for the only two divisions I have mechs built for so, have been using the trail mechs in the other divisions.....and they are not always ideal for the whole gladiator situation.


Yeah, S7 was basically dead on launch. It was a huge (among many) misplays by PGI.


So, in sum: some common mistakes that are easily fixable. Find that range/playstyle you like and build on it. You really shouldn't have a variety of different systems on one mech, you always want to be doing optimal damage. Having a "backup weapon" is rarely effective at anything other than scratching paint.

also, don't listen to Koniving.

Edited by thievingmagpi, 04 January 2020 - 04:18 PM.


#11 Nightbird

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 04:12 PM

Lots of bad advice in this thread, best to do some trial and error yourself or take everything with a grain of salt.

#12 Koniving

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 04:21 PM

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 04 January 2020 - 02:52 PM, said:

I need to look up some videos on the arty and air strikes idk how they are used. Like do they get placed where your crosshair is located or a certain distance away?

They get placed where the "o" crosshair is pointed. If you learn to move them separately, remember that as people tend to get confused easily. With armlock off, left CTRL can allow you take direct control over the "o" crosshair.

Quote

And I am used to classic battletech in regards to customizing so, had to learn PGI's modifcations to all this and made some mistakes. But, if its not a brawler variant then I set the mech to 75-80% armor, maybe JJs if it can equip them, and had to make a whole spreadsheet to figure out the damage-per-minute including duration and cooldown times to prioritize what weapons I want. I wish there was a viewable stat for the mech's total heat capacity, that is new from classic BT and Im unsure on that so, I just assume its at 30 when calculating how many heatsinks to equip.

Every weapon's heat - (any cooling bonuses) x 2 (alpha strikes) - 30 (capacity) / (longest weapon recycle time) * 10/2(convert into # of double heatsinks I need). And I havent had any heat problems since using this formula.


Mech's total capacity is easy enough to figure out, since you're already used to using some math.
Rather than 30 threshold and X heatsinks cooling power for 10 seconds, PGI's model is tabletop illiterate and is 30+20 (2 for each of your first ten heatsinks) + any additional heatsinks (at strange values) which makes your threshold and THEN cooling power of those heatsinks, allowing for rapid front loaded firepower

Base threshold is still thirty, but from there it changes depending on your heatsinks (remember that heatsinks include those that come with the engine).
There's a base 2 added per heatsink for the first ten, giving you a bare minimum of 50. From there..
Standard is +0.75 threshold per heatsink and + 0.14 cooling per second (1.4 cooling/10seconds). So the threshold with 20 STD heatsinks is 57.5 threshold (used to be 50 with 20 SHS).
Double is +0.5 threshold per heatsink and +0.22 cooling per second (2.2 cooling/10 seconds). So the minimum with 20 DHS is 55 threshold (used to be 64 with 20 DHS, assuming the additional 10 were outside of the engine but we won't get into that). Source; Smurfy's info automatically taken from the game's latest patches (Plus Vx's reminder about that patch)

It no longer matters if the heatsink is in the engine or floating loose in the mech.

Heatsinks added to the legs double in cooling power under the following conditions. Up to the knee is submerged = bottom slot. Up to some part of the hip is submerged = top slot. Clan DHS only benefits from water if up to the partial hip is submerged.

Beware, extra punishment heat comes from certain combinations of weapons if they are fired within 0.5 seconds of each other. The game will warn you with a notification icon (click on it) when your mech meets the criteria for being punished. It's only in the past two years that PGI finally did away with the 70 to 120+ thresholds they once had going, and the average threshold is around 60, so basically around what Mw4 was pumping out. However the ghost heat mechanic still remains as it was a means to try and discourage abusing the insane heat thresholds.

If you want a shortcut, I suggest assuming 45 threshold OR just taking the cooling efficiency rating and making sure it's above 47% if you want to not worry about heat issues too much.

Side note, (in regards to someone's comment that clearly didn't even read anything I wrote) I've never been able to live down sharing old information about the LBX that got patched out, and so basically that makes anything I say not worth listening to for a select group of people. I mean, it's not like I knew what I was talking about in terms of the old firing patterns and just outdated or anything. Also saying anything positive about LBX and its double crit damage is a cardinal sin.

Edited by Koniving, 05 January 2020 - 03:25 AM.


#13 BLOODWOLF333

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 05:08 PM

Quote

[color=#959595]Base threshold is still thirty, but from there it changes depending on your heatsinks (remember that heatsinks include those that come with the engine).[/color]
[color=#959595]Standard is +0.75 threshold per heatsink and + 0.14 cooling per second (1.4 cooling/10seconds). So the [/color]minimum threshold with STD heatsinks is 37.5 threshold (used to be 40)[color=#959595].[/color]
[color=#959595]Double is +0.5 threshold per heatsink and +0.22 cooling per second (2.2 cooling/10 seconds). So the [/color]minimum with DHS is 35 threshold (used to be 50)[color=#959595].[/color]


Ok yeah I just needed a concrete answer on the capacity because the wiki is kind of contradictory say they all start out with a base of 30 but then later saying the first 10 heatsinks provide a base of 20.....what?
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Edited by BLOODWOLF333, 04 January 2020 - 05:10 PM.


#14 Vxheous

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 09:41 PM

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 04 January 2020 - 05:08 PM, said:


Ok yeah I just needed a concrete answer on the capacity because the wiki is kind of contradictory say they all start out with a base of 30 but then later saying the first 10 heatsinks provide a base of 20.....what?
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This is how it works.....every mech has 50 heat capacity, before any additional heatsinks beyond 10 (which is the minimum required that allows you to launch your mech). Base heat is 30, + 20 (from the mandatory 10 heatsinks).

#15 BLOODWOLF333

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 10:20 PM

.....um. conflicting information guess I could just test this in game and do the math knowing each weapon's heat value / either a 35 or a 50 base heat capacity with 10 DHS and see if it matches the % on the heatscale in-game.

#16 Vxheous

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 10:22 PM

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 04 January 2020 - 10:20 PM, said:

.....um. conflicting information guess I could just test this in game and do the math knowing each weapon's heat value / either a 35 or a 50 base heat capacity with 10 DHS and see if it matches the % on the heatscale in-game.


It's 50, it's not conflicting information, it's just poorly worded information. What you're highlighting is two separate things. The first comment is that ALL MECHs (stripped) has a base heat capacity of 30. The second comment has to do with how much heat capacity heatsinks add, where the first 10 heatsinks placed in a mech (internal or external) gives 2 heat capacity for a total of 20 additional heat capacity (on top of the base mech heat capacity of 30). Every heatsink after the initial 10 heatsinks will given 0.75 heat capacity/heatsink, or 0.5 heat capacity/double heatsink (clan or IS)

This is because in the past, only internal engine heatsinks gave a full +2 heat capacity, so any mech that was running an engine smaller than 250 size had a lower base heat capacity than those that had engines greater than 250. This meant in the past, you had situations of 30 base heat + 9x2 (18) internal heatsinks, + 1x1.5 external heatsinks (in case of doubles, or 1x1.3 in case of singles) for engines smaller than 250, or even more external heatsinks required as your engine gets smaller and smaller.

Edited by Vxheous, 04 January 2020 - 10:31 PM.


#17 BLOODWOLF333

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 11:14 PM

I meant you and Koniving were telling me two different things.

I tested it and your right it's 50 so, I have been under armed and equipping too many heatsinks this whole time. But, now I can do:

total weapon heat x 2.5 (want to be able to do 2.5 alpha strikes without overheating) - (50 + (# of DHS/2) x skill modifiers) / longest weapon recycle time / 0.22 heat dissipation

WLF-2BW this is pretty mean now but, that "I change my mind" and installing a XL engine was expensive
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Edited by BLOODWOLF333, 04 January 2020 - 11:14 PM.


#18 Grumpy Old Man

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 11:19 PM

You still have way too much armour in the back and free armour to allocate.4-6 back armour is enough. I know some high end people run Light Mechs with 2 back armour, but I tend to get nervous doing that. I use 4-5 most of the time. If you are constantly shot in the back in a light, you are doing something wrong. ;-)

Also, I would still pick up even more armour. Shave the Head to 10 and get more on CT and Side Torso's.

***EDIT: As I am potentially unclear, the armour you free up by stripping down the back, put into the front. ;-) ***

Edited by Grumpy Old Man, 04 January 2020 - 11:21 PM.


#19 Vxheous

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 11:28 PM

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 04 January 2020 - 11:14 PM, said:

I meant you and Koniving were telling me two different things.

I tested it and your right it's 50 so, I have been under armed and equipping too many heatsinks this whole time.

View Postthievingmagpi, on 04 January 2020 - 04:11 PM, said:

also, don't listen to Koniving.


You were warned not to listen to Koniving Posted Image

Now, here is the "meta" wolfhound-2 build. It will vastly out-perform your current build.
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If you're uncomfortable with fighting at the 250-300m with the wolfhound, you can always load up 6 ERML + additional heatsinks instead and poke from 450m.

Edited by Vxheous, 04 January 2020 - 11:47 PM.


#20 justcallme A S H

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 12:18 AM

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 04 January 2020 - 11:14 PM, said:

I meant you and Koniving were telling me two different things.


One player knows/plays the game at the highest level.

One does not and often misleads users with bad information. In fact I've had to constantly disprove the misinformation for some 3 years now.



Trust what Vx says. He knows what is up.





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