Jump to content

I'm Playing Stock Configs


40 replies to this topic

#21 Dashen

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • 106 posts

Posted 16 January 2020 - 04:01 AM

View PostKodyn, on 16 January 2020 - 03:35 AM, said:

OP, I'm glad you're having fun. Your teammates probably aren't, but whatever, it's your money. If you can perform decently in those terrible loadouts, you'd be performing that much better in real builds.

That's what everyone's point is- any form of stock or intentionally not building intelligently is going to punish your teammates, so not many people are going to be all that excited by your findings. It's an online PvP game. Winning is the point. You can choose to play sub-optimally if that's what you enjoy most, just don't expect a whole lot of people to encourage or applaud you for it.

Good hunting either way.


You make a lot of assumptions, why don't you give it a try in QP.

#22 Kodyn

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • Shredder
  • 1,326 posts
  • LocationNY, USA

Posted 16 January 2020 - 04:16 AM

View PostDashen, on 16 January 2020 - 04:01 AM, said:


You make a lot of assumptions, why don't you give it a try in QP.


I'm not making any assumptions, I've been playing MWO for a very long time lol. I don't need to give it a try in QP, I already know I don't like builds similar to what you've described. I've spent a lot of hours min-maxing my builds- they're not pure meta(some are), but they're tweaked to my play style. I use certain weapon systems on certain mechs for certain reasons, all as a result of thousands of hours of testing and experimentation.

I'm not trying to trash your creativity or desire to have fun, I was simply pointing out the consequences on others from your choices, and stating the reasons your thread isn't getting the response you expected it to. Do you buddy, just expect some constructive(and less than constructive) criticism when you make a thread about your experiment, especially on these forums.

#23 Dashen

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • 106 posts

Posted 16 January 2020 - 04:38 AM

View PostKodyn, on 16 January 2020 - 04:16 AM, said:


I'm not making any assumptions, I've been playing MWO for a very long time lol. I don't need to give it a try in QP, I already know I don't like builds similar to what you've described. I've spent a lot of hours min-maxing my builds- they're not pure meta(some are), but they're tweaked to my play style. I use certain weapon systems on certain mechs for certain reasons, all as a result of thousands of hours of testing and experimentation.

I'm not trying to trash your creativity or desire to have fun, I was simply pointing out the consequences on others from your choices, and stating the reasons your thread isn't getting the response you expected it to. Do you buddy, just expect some constructive(and less than constructive) criticism when you make a thread about your experiment, especially on these forums.


How about we point out the consequences of meta building, on how they forced many devs decisions, on how people who wanted to win murdered this game for the people who just loved mech brawling.

There will always be two sides of the coin.

On top of that nobody, literally nobody gives a crap about what your loadout is in QP, they just care that you stick with your team and share your armor. Trust me, i've played this game probably as long as you(2012 i suppose) and NEVER i've seen someone complaining about someone running stock builds, in fact most complaints are about lrm boats with no backup weapons, or kodiaks with 4 micro lasers(i saw one in FP btw), down to the guy going solo with his assault on a personal mission around the map.

You can say "you do you" and that's fine, it's not fine putting the blame for other people enjoyment on my shoulders.


Constructive criticism would be to argue about the effectiveness of stock builds and how to improve them while keeping them "stock-ish" .

So if you want to discuss the point of the thread i'm down with it, otherwise this discussion has no point to exist in this thread.

#24 Bud Crue

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Rage
  • Rage
  • 9,188 posts
  • LocationOn the farm in central Minnesota

Posted 16 January 2020 - 04:48 AM

View PostDashen, on 16 January 2020 - 04:38 AM, said:


So if you want to discuss the point of the thread i'm down with it, otherwise this discussion has no point to exist in this thread.


Dashen,

I think you are getting grief here because the “point of the thread” is contradictory. You are asserting that you run stock mechs and that they are fun, etc. but your OP makes it clear that while you may not necessarily be running meta builds, you are certainly not running anything remotely like “stock” or even super stock builds. The modifications you describe in your OP are pretty much what all of us do to make a build superior to stock. Your thread title really ought to be “I run optimized builds that may or may not be meta, but they certainly aren’t stock.” That isn’t unusual, its kinda the norm for most of us, I suspect.

#25 Kodyn

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • Shredder
  • 1,326 posts
  • LocationNY, USA

Posted 16 January 2020 - 04:54 AM

It's literally in the T&C that you're expected to try to win, it's a PvP game, that's the point. Yes, you can enjoy just playing, that's great, but winning is still the end-goal. You're not responsible for other people's fun, that's true, however you not playing intelligently can and will impact your teammates. It's not meant to make you feel bad, it's just a fact. I hate seeing stock loadouts, or just bad ones in general, but I don't feel the need to trash talk the player bringing it in game. Just because no one has vocally told you that what you're doing isn't optimal doesn't mean we don't see it that way when we encounter you.

You can't control the discussion in your threads, either. You used a clickbait title that was sure to draw in all sorts of responses, this is what happens. There's no need to debate the merits of stock builds in 2020- we all know how bad they are.

I'm sorry the thread didn't go the way you wanted it to, but that's life. No use getting upset over mine or anyone else's opinions if you don't really care what we have to say or why we're saying it anyway.

EDIT: "How about we point out the consequences of meta building, on how they forced many devs decisions, on how people who wanted to win murdered this game for the people who just loved mech brawling."

I had to come back to address this statement, as it was ridiculous and was bothering me. First of all, the devs created the game, balanced the game a certain way. Any meta that's developed is as a direct result of players playing the game the way the devs gave it to us. They made balance choices without foreseeing the very obvious trajectory of the meta THEY created by balancing and designing things the way they did. Players use the tools they're given, and in a competitive game will obviously be trying to use those tools in the best and most efficient way possible. It's literally the entire point of a game like this. If you don't enjoy playing to the best of your abilities, that's fine, that's your choice, but it has nothing to do with players somehow messing up the game by playing intelligently and efficiently. It's absolutely absurd to even suggest. Also if you really really just want to mech brawl and don't care whatsoever about winning, then there's stuff like private matches, Solaris, etc, specifically for that. It's patently ridiculous to assume the game is designed around people who want to choose not to try to do their best. In any game it's possible to ignore any meta play and just do your own thing, if that's what gets you off- it's never going to be a popular choice though, for obvious reasons. I state again, do you, but you're wasting your energy getting defensive over your choices, which you had no need to broadcast to the forum community if you didn't want to hear other people's opinions.

Edited by Kodyn, 16 January 2020 - 06:07 AM.


#26 Prototelis

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • Shredder
  • 4,789 posts

Posted 16 January 2020 - 05:36 AM

lol, if only stock and luore builds were against TOS

#27 Ilfi

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 576 posts

Posted 16 January 2020 - 07:43 AM

Dude, imagine if we could ban people if they didn't use pre-approved Grim Mechs S-Tier, A-Tier and B-Tier builds.

No more LRM Supernovas. No more Locusts with light PPCs. No more Light Gauss King Crabs. It's the f***ing dream, lads. I'd pay for that.

#28 VonBruinwald

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Undisputed
  • The Undisputed
  • 2,400 posts
  • LocationRandis IV

Posted 16 January 2020 - 07:54 AM

View PostKodyn, on 16 January 2020 - 04:54 AM, said:

I hate seeing stock loadouts, or just bad ones in general, but I don't feel the need to trash talk the player bringing it in game. Just because no one has vocally told you that what you're doing isn't optimal doesn't mean we don't see it that way when we encounter you.


Pray you never see me play!

Pray!

Also; feel free to call me out on the battlefield, I'll call you a try-hard back in kind, it's all good banter!

#29 Dashen

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • 106 posts

Posted 16 January 2020 - 08:16 AM

View PostKodyn, on 16 January 2020 - 04:54 AM, said:

It's literally in the T&C that you're expected to try to win, it's a PvP game, that's the point. Yes, you can enjoy just playing, that's great, but winning is still the end-goal. You're not responsible for other people's fun, that's true, however you not playing intelligently can and will impact your teammates. It's not meant to make you feel bad, it's just a fact. I hate seeing stock loadouts, or just bad ones in general, but I don't feel the need to trash talk the player bringing it in game. Just because no one has vocally told you that what you're doing isn't optimal doesn't mean we don't see it that way when we encounter you.

You can't control the discussion in your threads, either. You used a clickbait title that was sure to draw in all sorts of responses, this is what happens. There's no need to debate the merits of stock builds in 2020- we all know how bad they are.

I'm sorry the thread didn't go the way you wanted it to, but that's life. No use getting upset over mine or anyone else's opinions if you don't really care what we have to say or why we're saying it anyway.

EDIT: "How about we point out the consequences of meta building, on how they forced many devs decisions, on how people who wanted to win murdered this game for the people who just loved mech brawling."

I had to come back to address this statement, as it was ridiculous and was bothering me. First of all, the devs created the game, balanced the game a certain way. Any meta that's developed is as a direct result of players playing the game the way the devs gave it to us. They made balance choices without foreseeing the very obvious trajectory of the meta THEY created by balancing and designing things the way they did. Players use the tools they're given, and in a competitive game will obviously be trying to use those tools in the best and most efficient way possible. It's literally the entire point of a game like this. If you don't enjoy playing to the best of your abilities, that's fine, that's your choice, but it has nothing to do with players somehow messing up the game by playing intelligently and efficiently. It's absolutely absurd to even suggest. Also if you really really just want to mech brawl and don't care whatsoever about winning, then there's stuff like private matches, Solaris, etc, specifically for that. It's patently ridiculous to assume the game is designed around people who want to choose not to try to do their best. In any game it's possible to ignore any meta play and just do your own thing, if that's what gets you off- it's never going to be a popular choice though, for obvious reasons. I state again, do you, but you're wasting your energy getting defensive over your choices, which you had no need to broadcast to the forum community if you didn't want to hear other people's opinions.


I'm conceding only because you're the first one that used the "didn't go the way you wanted it to, but that's life" line and thus won the convo. i'm done here,i've played this game long enough to know how to play, so i will keep having fun playing actually DIFFERENT mechs, until mw5 will be on sale.

Peace.

#30 Horseman

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • CS 2019 Top 8 Qualifier
  • CS 2019 Top 8 Qualifier
  • 3,006 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted 16 January 2020 - 09:02 AM

View PostDashen, on 15 January 2020 - 02:02 PM, said:

And they are surprisingly effective. The only thing that i change is the following:
-Max armor
-Switching from std to lfe or xl, but same engine capacity.
-Compacting weapons in 3 groups
*srm and lrm if both are present become 1 mrm
*machine guns are utterly useless unless boated so they get removed(anti infantry and vehicles, which are not present in the game)
*If more than 3 types of weapon i'll try to compact them by switching med with ermeds to group with large lasers. It's fun and effective, i am actually surprised

That isn't stock. "Superstock" would be adding some upgrades but broadly leaving the weapons alone (other than possibly upgrading their type), which is not what you are doing.
You're just playing your own builds broadly inspired by the stock configurations

View PostDashen, on 16 January 2020 - 04:38 AM, said:

How about we point out the consequences of meta building,
Opposable thumbs broken, please live without them?
Building and optimizing your mechs is part of the game.
If devs haven't expected players to minmax that, it's a problem with the devs and not the players.

Quote

on how they forced many devs decisions,
Unrealistic assumptions on part of the devs forced many dev decisions, sorry.

Quote

on how people who wanted to win murdered this game for the people who just loved mech brawling.
On the contrary, there's a large overlap between the two.
If you're not playing to win, you don't have confidence in your ability and you're being insulting to your opponents.
It doesn't matter if you care about the end result, it just matters that you do your best. A good match is one where everyone has pushed themselves to their limit and you can hardly complain if a nearly defeated opfor managed to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat by the skin of their teeth - if it's not tense, it isn't really fun.

#31 Kodyn

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • Shredder
  • 1,326 posts
  • LocationNY, USA

Posted 16 January 2020 - 09:04 AM

View PostDashen, on 16 January 2020 - 08:16 AM, said:


I'm conceding only because you're the first one that used the "didn't go the way you wanted it to, but that's life" line and thus won the convo. i'm done here,i've played this game long enough to know how to play, so i will keep having fun playing actually DIFFERENT mechs, until mw5 will be on sale.

Peace.


Never at any point was I attempting to change the way you play. You made a thread, I commented on the thread, as did others. You didn't like our opinions, became defensive and it turned into a bit of a debate. While I may not enjoy having players like yourself on my team, you have every right to play how you want, and I wouldn't want to take that away from you even if I could. Would I rather you use your years of experience to play better builds, in the case that you're on my team? Sure. Am I upset you don't play that way? Not at all. Your arguments were just flawed, so that's what I was reacting to most. I don't by any means play all meta all the time, I'm always experimenting. In the end I generally stick with whatever works best however, because I enjoy doing well more than not.

Everything else aside, it's a game, play how you want to play, and no one needs to tell you that. Just also keep in mind that everyone else is also playing the way they want, and may not agree with your choices.

#32 VonBruinwald

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Undisputed
  • The Undisputed
  • 2,400 posts
  • LocationRandis IV

Posted 16 January 2020 - 09:58 AM

View PostHorseman, on 16 January 2020 - 09:02 AM, said:

On the contrary, there's a large overlap between the two.
If you're not playing to win, you don't have confidence in your ability and you're being insulting to your opponents.


Sometimes, it's not about winning, it's about honour.

When you play a terribad build it's not about winning, it's about pushing yourself to the limit and in the process making the enemy do the same. It takes confidence to call out an enemy and challenge them to a 1v1 knowing you're going to be out-tonned, out-gunned and purposely disadvantaged. Playing to win is a fool's confidence. Expecting to lose but knowing you're going to make the enemy hurt for it is real confidence.

View PostHorseman, on 16 January 2020 - 09:02 AM, said:

It doesn't matter if you care about the end result, it just matters that you do your best. - if it's not tense, it isn't really fun.


Nailed it!

#33 RickySpanish

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 2,318 posts
  • LocationWubbing your comrades

Posted 16 January 2020 - 10:00 AM

Yo OP if you want to try something off the beaten path, give the gauss stealth armour Ghillie a go =)

#34 VonBruinwald

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Undisputed
  • The Undisputed
  • 2,400 posts
  • LocationRandis IV

Posted 16 January 2020 - 10:32 AM

View PostRickySpanish, on 16 January 2020 - 10:00 AM, said:

Yo OP if you want to try something off the beaten path, give the gauss stealth armour Ghillie a go =)


Alternatively:

Noisy-Cricket!

#35 Horseman

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • CS 2019 Top 8 Qualifier
  • CS 2019 Top 8 Qualifier
  • 3,006 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted 16 January 2020 - 11:55 AM

View PostVonBruinwald, on 16 January 2020 - 09:58 AM, said:

Playing to win is a fool's confidence. Expecting to lose but knowing you're going to make the enemy hurt for it is real confidence.
I'm not talking about expecting to win- just believing there is a way (usually is) and going for it.
The way I see it, expecting defeat undermines your own morale and motivation compared to a conviction there is a chance for success, no matter how small.

Edited by Horseman, 16 January 2020 - 11:55 AM.


#36 Kodyn

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • Shredder
  • 1,326 posts
  • LocationNY, USA

Posted 16 January 2020 - 12:08 PM

View PostVonBruinwald, on 16 January 2020 - 09:58 AM, said:


Sometimes, it's not about winning, it's about honour.



What if you have no honor though? I've always been the out-gunned skinny guy who had to fight dirty in order to not get beaten to a pulp by meatheads, so that translates into every aspect of my life. I play to win by any means necessary, as long as it doesn't compromise my own fun and obviously short of cheating or something. Whenever I see people try to do a 1 on 1 fight in the middle of a match and they ask both teams to back off, I along with pretty much everyone else- nuke them into oblivion as they stand there facing off to satisfy their honor(*Them being the opponent, not the ally). They can 1v1 on their own time in a private match or Solaris, but they chose to do so in the middle of a 24-man team game mode. Fair game, no question. If you want to RP and play a certain way, be my guest, but don't expect me to play along Posted Image

Edited by Kodyn, 16 January 2020 - 12:09 PM.


#37 Johny Rocket

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The People's Hero
  • The People
  • 1,128 posts

Posted 22 January 2020 - 01:05 PM

So I have found an amazingly effective stock build but not running it on the mech its on. I have the Orion IIC A and I am running the stock build from the Orion IIC A (C). The only difference is shifting 4 points of armor from the rear to the front on all three torsos, so Im going to call this bone stock.

Edited by Johny Rocket, 22 January 2020 - 01:05 PM.


#38 Aidan Crenshaw

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Mercenary
  • The Mercenary
  • 1,602 posts

Posted 22 January 2020 - 01:16 PM

It's a champion variant, thus it was designed by the community to be streamlined. It's not the stock ON1-IIC-A build.

#39 RickySpanish

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 2,318 posts
  • LocationWubbing your comrades

Posted 22 January 2020 - 06:43 PM

View PostJohny Rocket, on 22 January 2020 - 01:05 PM, said:

So I have found an amazingly effective stock build but not running it on the mech its on. I have the Orion IIC A and I am running the stock build from the Orion IIC A (C). The only difference is shifting 4 points of armor from the rear to the front on all three torsos, so Im going to call this bone stock.


The give away should have been that it's a build that isn't completely useless... Alas, as pointed out, C variants were designed by the community.

#40 Mawai

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 3,495 posts

Posted 22 January 2020 - 08:31 PM

It seems to me that the main issue with the thread is vocabulary :)

The OP is saying that it can be a lot of fun to run semi-decent non-meta not especially optimized but not bad builds and still do ok, contribute to the team and have fun. All of which I think is certainly true.

However, in the Battletech and Mechwarrior universe, "Stock", as far as I know has a particular and quite restrictive meaning that refers to the base build (weapons, engine etc) and base technology incorporated into the mech when introduced. This means in many cases standard engines, single heat sinks, no endo or ferro etc and any change from these loadouts and technology isn't "stock".





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users