Jump to content

Dealing With The Inevitablity Of Being Killed


30 replies to this topic

#1 _Magno_

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 118 posts

Posted 20 January 2020 - 05:05 AM

I'm looking for advice on dealing with those situations where early game, before serious contact is made, the red pings start popping up, you see the mini map and you forsee that your mech is gonna get the **** end of the stick.

The situation:

You are in a slowish mech on a canyoned map; either Hibernal Rift, Canyon, Bog or even the frozen cities.
Your lance moves to meet up and form a murder ball. I feel compelled to stay close to the lance, as I've learned to never, ....never go off alone as slow mech, even if I'm max armor assault.

So you try to stay with your lance, watch the mini map, point your torso to keep eyes on the screen for those mech silouhettes that radar won't pick up.

Then you see movement. More than a few mechs and a light that is running around to come up behind you. You comms in the movement, your company just keeps on moving.

The enemy has a fire line formed and you can either;

1. Stop moving forward and fall back into cover and be cut off maybe double back around.
2. Chance corssing the open area and get shot up a bit, and then they keep moving forward and you will be forced to either show your back for a bit to get to group armor or spin around walk backwards and tank without armor for a few seconds

A few games, I took the route of staying in cover and its the same as waiting for the enemy to gang up on you.

This morning, two games in a row, I chose to just keep moving to stay with the company, soak up a **** load of damage, deal as much damage back and hope the enemy pilots back off.
Both games ended in in me going down 1st or 2nd and you just kind of feel like there is nothing to be done about it. Just go down swinging and deal maybe 300 damage.

#2 FRAGTAST1C

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Fighter
  • The Fighter
  • 2,869 posts
  • LocationIndia

Posted 20 January 2020 - 05:27 AM

View Post_Magno_, on 20 January 2020 - 05:05 AM, said:

I'm looking for advice on dealing with those situations where early game, before serious contact is made, the red pings start popping up, you see the mini map and you forsee that your mech is gonna get the **** end of the stick.

The situation:

You are in a slowish mech on a canyoned map; either Hibernal Rift, Canyon, Bog or even the frozen cities.
Your lance moves to meet up and form a murder ball. I feel compelled to stay close to the lance, as I've learned to never, ....never go off alone as slow mech, even if I'm max armor assault..............



True but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be at the front of the inevitable NASCAR.There are times when your team will start NASCAR before you can even get near them in spite holding W right from the start. But never stop moving until you're comfortable in your location.

For e.g., never go to B4 from the start of that horrible spawn in Frozen City Classic. Never do that. Take the long way around from A3. Many times, your team would've finished 1 lap by the time you get into position near C4 and you are good to go. Sometimes, your team will start fighting at B4 while you're taking the long way around. It's fine. Nobody can predict whether your team will do the correct thing or not. Also, never peek if you don't have the range. There's no point in losing armour while you do half damage per volley.

You can do a lot of damage, get kills and still lose the match. That's the way it goes. 2 days ago, on Canyon, I was in my brand new 6x AC2 Rifleman IIC with only 60% Radar Dep unlocked and nothing else. I did 1k damage and got 2 kills. But in the middle of the match, half of my team ran off to "save our base from 2 light mechs" who hadn't even captured 25% of it. We lost the game 12-5. Needless to say, the few of us who stayed and fought the reds made the rest of the team feel ashamed and think about what they did (I'm kidding; nothing registered and they went about their merry ways Posted Image ).

Faction Play is entirely different and you can count on team work. Just hit up Twitch and look for players who stream FW. There are quite a few who happily take in new players and give advice on builds and what-not.

#3 _Magno_

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 118 posts

Posted 20 January 2020 - 06:14 AM

Your references for C4, A3 on frozen city classic appear weird on general google search of map. B4 is top left corner as a spawn point. A3 is inaccessible. ???

I’m still relatively new to online gaming, but it feels confusing to read these forums.

“NASCAR sucks and ruins the game”
Yet often times it feels natural and folks default to it.
Other times it’s essential for non jumping 3D swarm movement.

“Counter the NASCAR!”
Frequently find that you are alone and that’s always a bad day unless you’re in 150+ kph exam light.

“Getting singled out on the side? Move in to the center of your team!”

I think the general question is, how frequent is it amongst even good players to have a game within the early stages where you just know you’re going down early?



#4 Jman5

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Littlest Helper
  • Littlest Helper
  • 4,914 posts

Posted 20 January 2020 - 06:17 AM

The best advice is to not get yourself in that situation in the first place. Even a Direwolf is fast enough to group up and keep up with the team. If some joker in your lance is dawdling, don't feel compelled to match his pace. It's better for your teammates for them to lose one assault rather than two.

However, if you do find yourself in a situation where you're unable to group with the main squad, recognize that you're already dead. The goal then becomes to delay flanking opponents as long as possible. Every second you buy gives your team an extra second to outflank them. Do your best to pull enemies away from the fight. Set up in most defensive position you can find to restrict their numerical advantage. Try to trade one for one, but failing that try to at least leg one so they're out of the fight longer.

When you are out of position and about to be overrun, do not ever cry on comms or in chat for help. 9 times out of 10 it wont save you and you're just going to get more of your team killed for no gain. Accept that you're cut off and do your best to make the most of your mistake.

View Post_Magno_, on 20 January 2020 - 06:14 AM, said:

I think the general question is, how frequent is it amongst even good players to have a game within the early stages where you just know you’re going down early?


Putting aside freak 1-in-a-million situations like random headshot from across the map, If a good player goes down early it's because they made a mistake. Simple as that. If he's a good player and he can't see why it's because he's mad that he had a lousy game and isn't looking at the issue clearly (something we're all guilty of from time to time). If he's a casual player he may just lack the experience and awareness to understand what he should have done differently.

Too aggressive, poor positioning, bad map awareness, bad decisions, out-piloted. One or more of these is the culprit.

Edited by Jman5, 20 January 2020 - 06:34 AM.


#5 Aidan Crenshaw

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Mercenary
  • The Mercenary
  • 3,563 posts

Posted 20 January 2020 - 06:30 AM

View Post_Magno_, on 20 January 2020 - 06:14 AM, said:

Your references for C4, A3 on frozen city classic appear weird on general google search of map. B4 is top left corner as a spawn point. A3 is inaccessible. ???


Check out this practical little tool https://maps.mwocomp.com/MWO to avoid confusion. What Frag said does make a lot of sense. Charlie Spawn on B4/A4 is a very dangerous place for slow assaults. Especially if your team starts rotating over C3 immediately.

#6 Nightbird

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The God of Death
  • The God of Death
  • 7,518 posts

Posted 20 January 2020 - 07:01 AM

Slow mechs are not forgiving of mistakes in positioning, so you just need experience to not make those mistakes in the first place. Play a heavy mech built to go 65+ instead if you're new

#7 Verilligo

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 789 posts
  • LocationPodunk, U.S.A.

Posted 20 January 2020 - 07:24 AM

To help the OP describe the situation better, there are sometimes instances where the enemy team is so outstandingly aggressive that the shortest path from A to B can become not only unsafe, but potentially lethal. On Canyon, depending on where you spawn you can end up in a 48 kph non-JJ assault aiming to get to the center of the map and as you swing around the bend to pass through the big open area on the low ground, you will be fully exposed. If the enemy team is aggressive enough, they CAN pounce on you then and not only just damage you, but destroy you outright. You may or may not have much warning that this is about to happen. I believe the question in part is how one handles this sort of situation, particularly if you end up with at least some advance notice that swinging around the bend is going to be a death sentence, rare as that may be.

#8 martian

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 7,580 posts

Posted 20 January 2020 - 07:30 AM

View Post_Magno_, on 20 January 2020 - 05:05 AM, said:

I'm looking for advice on dealing with those situations where early game, before serious contact is made, the red pings start popping up, you see the mini map and you forsee that your mech is gonna get the **** end of the stick.

The situation:
...

What about taking a faster 'Mech the next time, or upgrading you current 'Mech to move faster?

#9 RickySpanish

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 3,510 posts
  • LocationWubbing your comrades

Posted 20 January 2020 - 08:43 AM

This is where consumables win the day OP. An arty strike at the front line will cause enemy 'Mechs to point away from you, a UAV will paint the front line for LRM boats, and coolshot will let you go rambo and take someone with you.

Never leave home without consumables.

Edited by RickySpanish, 20 January 2020 - 08:43 AM.


#10 Khobai

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 23,969 posts

Posted 20 January 2020 - 10:40 AM

View Postmartian, on 20 January 2020 - 07:30 AM, said:

What about taking a faster 'Mech the next time, or upgrading you current 'Mech to move faster?


this. slow mechs simply have less options than faster mechs. speed gives you options and options are good. without speed youre often pigeonholed into taking certain routes or even taking longer routes to avoid enemy contacts. And you limit your options for survivability by not being able to keep up with your team or disengage when you need to.

its unfortunate that PGI never balanced the game properly for mechs that move less than 70kph. But it is what it is... all you can do is not fall into the trap of playing slow assaults in quickplay.

View PostVerilligo, on 20 January 2020 - 07:24 AM, said:

I believe the question in part is how one handles this sort of situation


by avoiding it in the first place. thats really all you can do. and you do that by giving yourself the most options for survivability which means not playing a slow mech.

yeah sometimes the situation is unavoidable but if its unavoidable you cant avoid it anyway so theres no point in worrying about how to avoid it. all you can do at that point is try to do as much damage as you can before you go down.

Edited by Khobai, 20 January 2020 - 10:53 AM.


#11 Jackal Noble

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,863 posts
  • LocationTerra

Posted 20 January 2020 - 11:31 AM

Don’t be that guy in a 32 kph assault.

#12 LordNothing

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 16,735 posts

Posted 20 January 2020 - 11:45 AM

assaults should never tank. an assault that tanks is a dead assault. its a total waste that negates any of the perceived benefits an assault gives you, which is massive damage output. you want to get that assault into a place where it can achieve maximum damage output for as long as possible. so turning to fight might get you a few alphas but you will be swarmed around the time you are overheating and die quickly. so stay low and avoid visual detection for as long as possible.

now if you are with other slow assaults with good gunnery skills (and the right loadouts), you may stand a chance at stopping the enemy from nascaring, but usually you end up with one or more assaults throwing one of the others under the bus to escape. teamwork is lostech in qp.

#13 CFC Conky

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Fire
  • Fire
  • 1,738 posts
  • LocationThe PSR basement.

Posted 20 January 2020 - 01:25 PM

If you can't keep up with the team, can you at least keep up with the rest of Charlie lance?

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

#14 DarkFhoenix

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Terror
  • The Terror
  • 401 posts

Posted 20 January 2020 - 01:32 PM

Sorry bro . That's the risk we all take when we pick a slow assault . Turning and facing the enemy although won't save you it might slow the enemy nascar so your nascar buddies can catch em in the rear . All games are different sometimes your 30 kph anni does make a difference . Any mech you choose to pilot might be helpful or useless regardless of speed .

#15 Prototelis

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • Shredder
  • 4,789 posts

Posted 20 January 2020 - 03:25 PM

If your mech is doing 30KPH you're doing it really wrong.

#16 VonBruinwald

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Undisputed
  • The Undisputed
  • 3,460 posts
  • LocationRandis IV

Posted 20 January 2020 - 03:56 PM

View Post_Magno_, on 20 January 2020 - 05:05 AM, said:

Then you see movement. More than a few mechs and a light that is running around to come up behind you. You comms in the movement,


Quote

Any receiving unit.

I have contact with main enemy force inside central courtyard.

I'll delay them here as long as I can...


Sounds to me like you're in the right place.

#17 RickySpanish

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 3,510 posts
  • LocationWubbing your comrades

Posted 20 January 2020 - 04:24 PM

View PostVonBruinwald, on 20 January 2020 - 03:56 PM, said:




Sounds to me like you're in the right place.


That intro is probably my joint favourite in a game ever, sharing its spot with the Half-Life tram intro. It sends shivers down my spine.

#18 FRAGTAST1C

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Fighter
  • The Fighter
  • 2,869 posts
  • LocationIndia

Posted 20 January 2020 - 08:01 PM

View Post_Magno_, on 20 January 2020 - 06:14 AM, said:

Your references for C4, A3 on frozen city classic appear weird on general google search of map. B4 is top left corner as a spawn point. A3 is inaccessible. ???

I’m still relatively new to online gaming, but it feels confusing to read these forums.

“NASCAR sucks and ruins the game”
Yet often times it feels natural and folks default to it.
Other times it’s essential for non jumping 3D swarm movement.

“Counter the NASCAR!”
Frequently find that you are alone and that’s always a bad day unless you’re in 150+ kph exam light.

“Getting singled out on the side? Move in to the center of your team!”

I think the general question is, how frequent is it amongst even good players to have a game within the early stages where you just know you’re going down early?


I rarely looked at the maps with a bird's eye view. I've just learnt it by walking it. So, I'm pretty sure someone will correct me. What I'm saying is, as a Charlie lance when you spawn closer to B4, there's a big incline and it gets narrower at the top. If you take it, you'll slow yourself down even more 'cause it's so steep. On top of that, as a slow mech, by the time you reach the top and start looking for cover, the enemies will be on you. Your best bet is to use a mound right in front and defend yourself, which almost doesn't work 'cause your teammates won't help you. Hence, if you ignore that path, stay on the low ground and circle toward the spawn point of Bravo lance, you'll be near A3 where there another path that similarly steep but it is safe 'cause it is far away from danger.

NASCAR is the stupid cousin of Flanking. In every game, you always look to flank the enemy so that you can fire at them more without taking too much damage. In MWO, since the movement is slow, especially given the fact that some mechs are traveling at twice the speed of others, Flanking doesn't really work when the team gets split up. The other team, if they stick together, will be able to destroy your slow teammates. The problem gets compounded 'cause Mini-Map is LosTech in this game. There are a lot of people who can't use the mini-map simply by glancing at it. If they did, they'd immediately know where the enemies were and they could start shooting them. Instead, they'll keep moving away and never help their teammates.

You'll find yourself alone 'cause of the above.

"Move to the centre of the team" works when you can take shortcuts. For e.g., on Grim Plexus, the fighting takes place usually around the hill near G8 and G7. You can counter NASCAR if you hold and form a firing-line at this spot, you can basically kill them one-by-one. But that rarely happens. Everyone moves to the otherside on the low ground and then take the long way around to come back to where they were. The solution as a slow mech is to take the high-ground in the centre just as the NASCAR starts, move to the far end while shooting through the gaps and concentrating fire on the enemy slow mechs. Just make sure you don't take the shortcut close to the enemies. As your teammates circle around the low ground, you stay close to them but on the high ground, don't peek alone and open fire.

#19 Kotzi

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,356 posts

Posted 21 January 2020 - 12:20 AM

Well i guess thats what it has come to. Do not play something you like. Do as the others do. GQ was kinda the solution back in the days for that, but GQ is kinda dead nowadays.

Next time you get left behind, back your mech into some concealed place, power off and if you are lucky you can bumrush the enemy.

#20 PhoenixFire55

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 5,725 posts
  • LocationSt.Petersburg / Outreach

Posted 21 January 2020 - 02:48 AM

View Post_Magno_, on 20 January 2020 - 05:05 AM, said:

So you try to stay with your lance ...

I'll stop you right there, because this is a big misconception that leads to often failure.

If you want to be an effective assault pilot you absolutely have to dictate the terms of engagement to the enemy. That means you have to be agressive and press that W button a lot, forcing the fight upon the enemy where and when it is advantageous to you. Not wait till they do the same to you, because when they do, your team, that you try to "stay with" will run away. And you won't, because you are slower than they are.

So, do not wait around your team. Go forward, be agressive, shoot stuff. If anything that shows your team that you aren't one of those backrow useless assaults who hangs back and dies to the first Locust that comes by. They will be more likely to support you, and an agressive push by an assault supported by others is more often than not swings the game in your favor.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users