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Decay Of The Game


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#21 Prototelis

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 08:50 PM

Cool, so you admit the respawn mechanic has nothing to do with the lack of dual rotations in FP.

GG.

#22 martian

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 11:53 PM

Gentlemen, you are in a wrong thread.

Your favorite nascaring thread is here:
https://mwomercs.com.../276060-nascar/

#23 LordNothing

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 02:53 PM

View PostPrototelis, on 17 February 2020 - 08:50 PM, said:

Cool, so you admit the respawn mechanic has nothing to do with the lack of dual rotations in FP.

GG.



if you only had one lance in fp nascar would exist. so having multiple spawns does change things.

Edited by LordNothing, 18 February 2020 - 02:53 PM.


#24 Prototelis

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 04:39 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 18 February 2020 - 02:53 PM, said:



if you only had one lance in fp nascar would exist. so having multiple spawns does change things.



Scouting has one lancer per team, no respawns, and no nascar.

The respawn mechanic in FP has nothing to do with the lack of dual rotations.

#25 LordNothing

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 05:46 PM

View PostPrototelis, on 18 February 2020 - 04:39 PM, said:

Scouting has one lancer per team, no respawns, and no nascar.

The respawn mechanic in FP has nothing to do with the lack of dual rotations.


in scouting you have 4 fast-ish mechs, there is no reason to nascar because the battle will never start if you did and you end up in a boring cap battle. so there is no reason not to do a direct attack.

Edited by LordNothing, 18 February 2020 - 05:46 PM.


#26 Prototelis

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 06:08 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 18 February 2020 - 05:46 PM, said:


in scouting you have 4 fast-ish mechs,


Cool, so dual rotations don't happen with only one lance.

GG.

#27 MW Waldorf Statler

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 09:55 PM

View Postmartian, on 17 February 2020 - 08:51 AM, said:

It has not degenerated into a pile of crap. It is the same zero-depth FPS shooter it always has been - right from the beginning.


Although waiting 20 minutes is a bit unusual, that ******** nascar stupidity has always been the defining trait of MWO - right from the beginning. Don't you remember that nascaring around the central caldera on the original Caustic? And on the original Forest Colony? And actually on all available maps?


I guess that all random players have realized that ignoring FP is better than being farmed a dozen times in a row. And it seems that not even usual group players are enjoying their *******-******* anymore.


Solaris is joke, just a stillborn.


Boy, you have a rose-tinted glasses on your nose.

The gameplay is exactly the same as it was in 2013. The only thing that has changed are more modern 'Mechs. The nascaring that I saw on Canyon two minutes ago is exactly the same as I remember from 2013. Right hand run forward and then turn towards the central rock and central plateau. People are just not running their Catapults, Cataphracts and LRM Stalkers anymore, they have bought Mad Cat Mk. IIs, Blood Asps and Orion IICs. They do not brawl in Shadow Hawks and Griffins, they have bought Vapor Eagles and Huntsmans.

That's the only difference.


is a little Difference ...2012 Nasacr and both Teams fights and shooting ...2019 one team runs ,and the other shooting in her backs

#28 Curccu

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 11:13 PM

View Postmartian, on 17 February 2020 - 09:24 AM, said:

Yeah, those players have needed 6-7 years to come to this conclusion, but they finally threw MWO over the board and left for other games.

Well more like Russ threw MWO over the board and by saying no more development for MWO.
At least for me that was final nail in the coffin.

#29 Karl Streiger

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 11:30 PM

View PostCurccu, on 20 February 2020 - 11:13 PM, said:

Well more like Russ threw MWO over the board and by saying no more development for MWO.
At least for me that was final nail in the coffin.

Well, lets look at this action in the retros perspective.
Russ said there will be some great announcement in April (or was it March) it will include the guys from NGNG. Then that podcast was delayed, postphoned and everytime it was announced how important (ok that was true) and big that announcement will be.
And finally after weeks of glorious anticipation - he said MWO is done. OK he said it different but considering the anticipation he could have said - "thank you for your money you dumasses - we didn't do a ******* real thing since 2013"

I mean I was total expecting nothing huge, glorious stuff but still Russ was able to undercut even that not even existent expectation.

#30 Captain Stiffy

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 01:03 AM

I have been here the whole time. (Member Since 04 Feb 2013) From the first days of open beta to now. I missed a few gaps but pretty regularly have played this game since the start. Here are my feelings, a post mortem.

I feel like this game was always what all miniatures games, especially Battletech and Warhammer, have always been: A rich kid's game. It didn't have to be that way. I was never really into the F2P model of this game and the way they abused the community by constantly nerfing mechs that they had already sold was really what tore it apart.
In these latter days, there is not really very much difference between mechs anymore. The homogenization of what was once a field full of unique mechs turned most paying customers off.

I could go on all day about better visions for this game than a F2P model, that would have made it a much much better game. I guess the devs are now discovering what all of us customers knew all along: if you abuse your customers long enough with shoddy products (i.e. mechs that become worthless in a few months, just like a crappy blender or flashlight) you will eventually be left with nothing.

I came back again in late 2019 because all I ever wanted was the Marauder II. So I bought that pack and played it. It sucks in this game, but it's my favorite so I kitted them out. I play the game some now because it's deepwinter and I am bored... but I definitely did not buy into the MC sale this year.

People say the game is already a "dead game". I am kinda glad they stopped with the constant nerfing, but there's nothing new to offer, because those new mechs are just going to be barely different from the old ones.

The great shame here is that the mech models, and license rights, and everything were all in place, but the ****** F2P model FORCED this game to be something ****** instead of something deep and involving or possibly even story driven, like if it had a regular subscription based MMO model.

I have still never played the Battletech game of my dreams, which admittedly would be some kind of WoW / MWO hybrid, but I probably never will. This could have done that, though. It could have been something so memorable and bright. Solaris was too little, too late and I am not sure who was asking for it. If they had just taken quick play and put arena style maps on it, like 3 groups going 4v4 and the winners fight the rest style, that would have been 100 times easier and better.

Instead, my memories of this game are like a war zone, nothing but lights and explosions. 7 years of lights and explosions - and nothing to really tie any of that together into anything bigger than blowing up stompy robots. The most memorable things are that I never managed to get an 8 kill match, or knowing that I had some really great kills or matches here and there, I guess. It's all so hollow.

The final word: An inch deep and ten thousand dollars wide, this game never lived up to any number of potentials that it had.

Oh yeah and cryengine sucks, that was the worst choice of all the poor choices made.

https://i.imgur.com/41dlZEm.png
https://steamcharts.com/app/342200

Edited by Captain Stiffy, 21 February 2020 - 02:18 AM.


#31 Spheroid

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 04:30 AM

View PostCaptain Stiffy, on 21 February 2020 - 01:03 AM, said:

I feel like this game was always what all miniatures games, especially Battletech and Warhammer, have always been: A rich kid's game.



Ludicrous statement. BattleTech can be played with two dice, a pencil and literally anything as a proxy. Nothing like Warhammer.

#32 martian

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 09:44 AM

View PostCaptain Stiffy, on 21 February 2020 - 01:03 AM, said:

I feel like this game was always what all miniatures games, especially Battletech and Warhammer, have always been: A rich kid's game.

I agree with many things that you wrote, but what you said about BattleTech is simply not true.

What you need:
  • 1 map - 8* A4 - 8* $0.10
  • paper stand-ins - 1* A4 - $0.10
  • record sheets for four 'Mechs - 4*A4 - 4* $0.10
  • a pair of dice - 2* $0.35
  • a pack of pencils - $1
TOTAL: $3


If you have access to a school or office printer, then you can essentially play BattleTech for free (assuming that you already own some common household items such as rubber, pencils, adhesive tape, dice and paperclips).

Warhammer 40.000, on the other hand, is a bit more expensive ...

Edited by martian, 21 February 2020 - 09:47 AM.


#33 Captain Stiffy

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 09:43 PM

View Postmartian, on 21 February 2020 - 09:44 AM, said:

I agree with many things that you wrote, but what you said about BattleTech is simply not true.

What you need:
  • 1 map - 8* A4 - 8* $0.10
  • paper stand-ins - 1* A4 - $0.10
  • record sheets for four 'Mechs - 4*A4 - 4* $0.10
  • a pair of dice - 2* $0.35
  • a pack of pencils - $1
TOTAL: $3




















If you have access to a school or office printer, then you can essentially play BattleTech for free (assuming that you already own some common household items such as rubber, pencils, adhesive tape, dice and paperclips).

Warhammer 40.000, on the other hand, is a bit more expensive ...


So when I was a lower middle class kid in the 1980's when Battletech was a pretty hot thing, the only miniatures were lead pewter and they cost 6-10 dollars each, which in 2020 money is 15-30 dollars per mech. I loved to paint them and although I wasn't very good at the game, being that I only really got to play it on game nights at the local store, and was about 7 or 8 years old at the time. The only thing I wanted back then was the 3050 book, which cost about 100 dollars in today's money.

Even though I didn't get to own very much Battletech I loved it dearly. I loved the pictures in the Citytech book that I had, and when I eventually got the 3050 book I poured over it for hours. I used to carry around the box set in middle school and relentlessly designed my own mechs, often to my own rules. My point is that it was something I really loved but was really too expensive for my parents as a hobby for me. I was super lucky and actually managed to make buddies with some of the guys at Ral Partha (I lived in Cincinnati) in the early days, and I got a few mini's for free and/or before release for cost, like the Imp. Super lucky for me. I think, in total, I probably ever owned around a dozen pewter mechs, which I made my own custom carrying case for our of my mom's craft supplies, and painted, because I could not afford the nice ones at the store. (to be clear, plastic mechs did NOT exist at this time)

So although Battletech has become more accessible over the years, when I was into it, it was not. MWO basically costs now what Battletech did in the early days.

I know there are kids out there that are just like I was, and they see this game and all the awesome mechs and want to play them, but they are priced terribly out of reach for a kid. I think that's a shame.

It is extremely unlikely that there will be another generation after this one that is at all interested in BT.

All the paint, the ruined carpet in the corner of my room in a house long demolished, the endless sheets of horribly designed mechs, the backpack with the worn out bottom from hauling thick books around, the tears over losing on BR night, the joy of actually getting friends to sit down and play it, all of those things are long, long gone.

When MWO dies, that will erase Battletech forever from my worldview. MWO in some way was cathartic for me, to finally be able to play the game I loved so much in a way that was accessible to me, but it was only ever bittersweet, due to the monetization of the game.

I guess I spent around 500 bucks on this game? I guess that's pretty good for the time that I played it, but the reality is that I would have ended up giving PGI about 1,260 bucks instead if they had just charged 15 a month for it and had a better game that wasn't such an online store. Something with story and purpose, where I'd have more memories of this game than just explosions, and something to come back to and enjoy, besides just more explosions.

In my keepsake box, rattling around in the bottom, are a few chunks of a desert camo painted Marauder II, which are all that remains from that Era, with a story nobody else could know or imagine, a boyhood dream locked in the past, behind a wall of money. Now thanks to MWO, I add to that a memory collage of robots exploding, and not much more.

Edited by Captain Stiffy, 21 February 2020 - 10:44 PM.


#34 martian

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 12:53 AM

View PostCaptain Stiffy, on 21 February 2020 - 09:43 PM, said:

So ..

Again, many things that you wrote are true. But my point is that while you can spend a lot of cash on BattleTech, it is not really necessary. It is like spending cash on Hero Mechs in MWO. You can do that, but you can play even without those.

View PostCaptain Stiffy, on 21 February 2020 - 09:43 PM, said:

When MWO dies, that will erase Battletech forever from my worldview. MWO in some way was cathartic for me, to finally be able to play the game I loved so much in a way that was accessible to me, but it was only ever bittersweet, due to the monetization of the game.

I guess I spent around 500 bucks on this game? I guess that's pretty good for the time that I played it, but the reality is that I would have ended up giving PGI about 1,260 bucks instead if they had just charged 15 a month for it and had a better game that wasn't such an online store. Something with story and purpose, where I'd have more memories of this game than just explosions, and something to come back to and enjoy, besides just more explosions.

You may dislike Russ Bullock's strategy of selling a minimally-viable product, from his side it was a real success. Minimum costs - maximum earnings. Why bother with some story and such things? MWO players have been giving him money even with no story in sight.

View PostCaptain Stiffy, on 21 February 2020 - 09:43 PM, said:

In my keepsake box, rattling around in the bottom, are a few chunks of a desert camo painted Marauder II, which are all that remains from that Era, with a story nobody else could know or imagine, a boyhood dream locked in the past, behind a wall of money. Now thanks to MWO, I add to that a memory collage of robots exploding, and not much more.


Try MegaMek.

Posted Image

It is a free offline/online simulator of BattleTech. The best thing is that it easily handles some things practically impossible in tabletop BattleTech, such as double-blind games and a lot of units that would be a chore to track and mage on tabletop.

It has many units that you are not going to find in MWO...


First Free Worlds Guards vs. Alpha Galaxy of Clan Wolf
(click to enlarge)
Posted Image


First Davion Guards vs. First Bolan Jägers
(click to enlarge)
Posted Image


Thirteenth Principes Guards vs. Fifth McCarron's Armored Cavalry
(click to enlarge)
Posted Image

Edited by martian, 23 February 2020 - 09:39 AM.


#35 Captain Stiffy

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Posted 04 March 2020 - 01:52 PM

View Postmartian, on 23 February 2020 - 12:53 AM, said:

You may dislike Russ Bullock's strategy of selling a minimally-viable product, from his side it was a real success. Minimum costs - maximum earnings. Why bother with some story and such things? MWO players have been giving him money even with no story in sight.


Right well it's almost impossible not to make money if you have a Battletech license and a bunch of capital.

It's kinda like having a license for Star Wars, and we see how that's turning out in the hands of the highest bidder.

#36 VonBruinwald

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Posted 04 March 2020 - 01:56 PM

View PostCaptain Stiffy, on 04 March 2020 - 01:52 PM, said:

It's kinda like having a license for Star Wars, and we see how that's turning out in the hands of the highest bidder.


What's worse, milking a dead cow or drinking that milk.

#37 Prototelis

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Posted 04 March 2020 - 01:58 PM

View PostCaptain Stiffy, on 04 March 2020 - 01:52 PM, said:


Right well it's almost impossible not to make money if you have a Battletech license and a bunch of capital.



Because license holders and licensees have made so much money with the wide appeal of battletech and it attracts so many developers.

Quote

It's kinda like having a license for Star Wars, and we see how that's turning out in the hands of the highest bidder.


Uhhh, churning out billions of dollars?

#38 Captain Stiffy

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Posted 04 March 2020 - 02:02 PM

View PostPrototelis, on 04 March 2020 - 01:58 PM, said:

Because license holders and licensees have made so much money with the wide appeal of battletech and it attracts so many developers.



Uhhh, churning out billions of dollars?


That's entirely my point. From my perspective, and the perspective of everyone but the staff and investors, (excepting Ayn Rand) the amount of money the game makes is totally irrelevant. There are way better games than this that don't cost anywhere near what it costs. The only reason this game demands the prices it does is because of the license.

View PostVonBruinwald, on 04 March 2020 - 01:56 PM, said:


What's worse, milking a dead cow or drinking that milk.


Probably milking. My advice is not to do what you love, do something that is similar to that so you don't ruin what you love by knowing way too much about it or worse, having to work against it.

#39 Prototelis

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Posted 04 March 2020 - 02:02 PM

So you point is a bad IP attracts a modicum of income, an amount so small nearly no one wants it, and this relates to the billions of dollars starwars generates how?

#40 Captain Stiffy

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Posted 04 March 2020 - 02:47 PM

View PostPrototelis, on 04 March 2020 - 02:02 PM, said:

So you point is a bad IP attracts a modicum of income, an amount so small nearly no one wants it, and this relates to the billions of dollars starwars generates how?

Posted Image

This could easily be a game about giant people fighting each other. Nobody would want to play that game even if it had all the same mechanics. Or they could all be various forms of massive toilets with potty weapons. Or they could be voltron. Actually probably more people would play the voltron game.

Edited by Captain Stiffy, 04 March 2020 - 02:52 PM.






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