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Expirementing, Anyone Wanna Help?

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#21 martian

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 10:29 PM

View PostDrtyDshSoap, on 17 March 2020 - 10:11 PM, said:

It's pretty sad that every game mode ends up being Skirmish.

That is my experience too. Exceptions happen pretty rarely.

View PostDrtyDshSoap, on 17 March 2020 - 10:11 PM, said:

If they had added something like a king of the hill ffa or capture the flag, I'm sure it would have broken up the monotony.

I think that the old MechWarrior 4 had these modes.

#22 Davegt27

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 11:49 PM

domination is king of the hill

just no hill
you drop and run to the center of the map

then you wonder why matches end so quickly
so you increase the rate of fire of the weapons

players start to rotate to try to pull the trigger more times
then people start calling nascar

then you wonder why the game dies

#23 Vellron2005

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 01:30 AM

Basically, if you play when all the tryhards come on, you're not gonna have a good time.

For me, that's around 22h EU time... that's when big groups (what's left of them) and troll groups like FAIT come on.. and then the games turn to excrement..

This is when it's better to just log off.

#24 RickySpanish

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 05:27 AM

View PostDrtyDshSoap, on 17 March 2020 - 10:11 PM, said:

It's pretty sad that every game mode ends up being Skirmish.

If they had added something like a king of the hill ffa or capture the flag, I'm sure it would have broken up the monotony.


They failed to recognize that without respawns, the most important resource in the game are your 'Mechs. Because of that, all other objectives become meaningless. CTF, KotH, neither of those modes would have changed anything - players would just try to kill each other like normal. The game needs to have at the very least, a shared pool of respawns (or reinforcements) that can be depleted both by killing the opposition and taking objectives. Oh well.

#25 Sniper09121986

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 07:16 AM

View PostRickySpanish, on 18 March 2020 - 05:27 AM, said:

They failed to recognize that without respawns, the most important resource in the game are your 'Mechs. Because of that, all other objectives become meaningless. CTF, KotH, neither of those modes would have changed anything - players would just try to kill each other like normal. The game needs to have at the very least, a shared pool of respawns (or reinforcements) that can be depleted both by killing the opposition and taking objectives. Oh well.


If people want deathmatch, then a deathmatch they shall have, one way or another. Yesterday I had a conquest match when we killed all the enemy team and still lost. Maybe a case could be made for more match types that can punish the team that ignores the objectives, but if people just want to slug it out, there is little to no way to force it upon them without causing butthurt and even more player drain. Although the remaining player-base is so hardcore it just would not give a damn either way Posted Image

#26 VonBruinwald

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 10:15 AM

View PostSniper09121986, on 18 March 2020 - 07:16 AM, said:

Maybe a case could be made for more match types that can punish the team that ignores the objectives, but if people just want to slug it out, there is little to no way to force it upon them without causing butthurt and even more player drain.


Just half the requirements for objectives goals. Suddenly assault/conquest becomes much more objective orientated, even a rogue light can't be wilfully ignored. Domination is still Nascar. Incursion bases become squishy and thus require protecting. Skirmish, well that's still skirmish.

Matches being shorter isn't a problem, if it anything it'll make people push/fight harder and poke less. Not every match needs to end with every mech destroyed.

#27 RickySpanish

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 10:37 AM

View PostSniper09121986, on 18 March 2020 - 07:16 AM, said:


If people want deathmatch, then a deathmatch they shall have, one way or another. Yesterday I had a conquest match when we killed all the enemy team and still lost. Maybe a case could be made for more match types that can punish the team that ignores the objectives, but if people just want to slug it out, there is little to no way to force it upon them without causing butthurt and even more player drain. Although the remaining player-base is so hardcore it just would not give a damn either way Posted Image


Sure people can still kill each other until resources are depleted, but completing objectives would be more efficient. For example, blowing up alpha or beta generators in domination could remove 5 reinforcements from the opposition, making them worth 5 enemy 'Mech kills.

#28 martian

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 10:38 AM

View PostVonBruinwald, on 18 March 2020 - 10:15 AM, said:


Just half the requirements for objectives goals. Suddenly assault/conquest becomes much more objective orientated, even a rogue light can't be wilfully ignored. Domination is still Nascar. Incursion bases become squishy and thus require protecting. Skirmish, well that's still skirmish.

Matches being shorter isn't a problem, if it anything it'll make people push/fight harder and poke less. Not every match needs to end with every mech destroyed.


Dunno.

Would not the players vote for objective-less game modes, i.e. Skirmish?

I remember when it was possible to select what game mode you wish to play - I believe it was Skirmish, Assault and Conquest.

The majority of players checked Skirmish and Assaults (that usually plays as Skirmish) and left Conquest unchecked.

Sad as it is, I think that the MWO players simply do not want the objective-based mode(s).

#29 VonBruinwald

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 11:05 AM

View Postmartian, on 18 March 2020 - 10:38 AM, said:

Sad as it is, I think that the MWO players simply do not want the objective-based mode(s).


Well obviously, if you play the objective you can't pad your K:D as efficiently.

#30 Sniper09121986

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 11:24 AM

View Postmartian, on 18 March 2020 - 10:38 AM, said:


Dunno.

Would not the players vote for objective-less game modes, i.e. Skirmish?

I remember when it was possible to select what game mode you wish to play - I believe it was Skirmish, Assault and Conquest.

The majority of players checked Skirmish and Assaults (that usually plays as Skirmish) and left Conquest unchecked.

Sad as it is, I think that the MWO players simply do not want the objective-based mode(s).


I also was around for those tickboxes where we now have server selection. I think it is not much of a stretch to call Assault and Conquest Assault and Light instead, because there was (and is, to an extent) not much incentive to bring any other weight classes to them. I still avoid Conquest. Now that I thought of it, I came to a conclusion that I like either objective-heavy modes (Siege and Incursion) or no objectives at all (Skirmish). I have no idea what a game designer can make out of this.

View PostVonBruinwald, on 18 March 2020 - 11:05 AM, said:


Well obviously, if you play the objective you can't pad your K:D as efficiently.


That and match payout. A fistful of frags gives you hundreds of thousands of CBills while a victory by cap with no shots fired gives what, 15K? Pittance. I know that players accumulate wealth in the absence of big ways to spend it, but come on.

#31 martian

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 11:58 AM

View PostVonBruinwald, on 18 March 2020 - 11:05 AM, said:

Well obviously, if you play the objective you can't pad your K:D as efficiently.

View PostSniper09121986, on 18 March 2020 - 11:24 AM, said:

...
That and match payout. A fistful of frags gives you hundreds of thousands of CBills while a victory by cap with no shots fired gives what, 15K? Pittance. I know that players accumulate wealth in the absence of big ways to spend it, but come on.

You are both right.

It is perfectly clear when you are playing Conquest on Alpine Peaks. It does not matter what weight class you are in (although it is more obvious if you go cap in Assault class 'Mech) - if you cap that remote valley base, your payout is going to be a few thousand C-Bills just for capping because you are too far away to do anything else. And since you are are so far away, you team is actually in disadvantage and there is a higher possibility that you team will be defeated and your cap rendered futile.

If you ignore caps and play it as pure Skirmish, you can farm kills, Assists, damage, etc., thus helping your team to victory. So it is no surprise that the majority of players like to play Conquest this way.

I would even say that there can be situations when it is actually preferable to lose Conquest in battle (with all those aforementioned rewards earned) than to win it on cap.

#32 Sniper09121986

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 12:44 PM

View Postmartian, on 18 March 2020 - 11:58 AM, said:

I would even say that there can be situations when it is actually preferable to lose Conquest in battle (with all those aforementioned rewards earned) than to win it on cap.


Yeah, straight BS second only to Escort when attackers used to ask defenders to put the Fatlass out of its misery and get on with their lives. Maybe if the victory payout was comparable to that of a good match performance (frags, damage and whatnot), it would effectively double the payout for the winners, all else being equal. That might be a good incentive to play to objective without much harm to slugging it out.

#33 Kodyn

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 07:08 PM

My goals every match are usually split. I want to enjoy the match and have a good fight, and I want to have a decent MS/earnings. Conquest for me has always led to the most dynamic, fun battles, and has the best rewards, win or loss, hands-down. I tend to not enjoy matches that aren't Conquest or Skirmish, because of the aforementioned Assault trolling(like capping on maps where there's obviously no way a team can make it back, thus eliminating a chance of a fight at all), Incursion is pointless, it's just Assault where instead of damage/kill-less matches you have to wait for a base to be killed after the actual match is over and we all want to move on. I'm not sure why Domination really exists, since on the maps it's on, it either encourages a fight in the same spot we always fight on, or on the worst place in the whole map, ie Frozen.

I don't know how you make a tiny community who have all always wanted different things happy really. I'd be good with less modes and more maps, or even less maps, but only the better ones. I see people heavily voting for the maps I despise and I see the better maps lose horribly, to wind up in a match where nearly every player is wondering how they got there. The voting system is pretty stupid. I can save up all day and force people to play Canyon/HPG/FoCo Conquests eventually, and I can sit there and watch people force me to play Solaris and Mining Dom/Assault over, and over, and over, and over, and over.

If I wanted 2-3 min matches in a small arena-like space, I'd be playing that other mode we don't talk about, or another game entirely, like Crossout or basically any COD-type shooter. Longer, slower matches would be great, FP being the core of the game would be great. But that's me. I think it may be as hard to find players who agree on what they want out of MWO as it is to figure out exactly what PGI thought would come from all their choices over the years.

#34 justcallme A S H

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Posted 19 March 2020 - 05:18 AM

Coming into EU Prime and EU Prime has always been, IMO, the worst quality match period bar none.

That is around 1-3am for me if I'm up late and it's extremely obvious the decline that happens.

#35 Kubernetes

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Posted 19 March 2020 - 10:25 AM

It's a weird mix to be sure. I'm now seeing 4, 5, or more quality pilots in my matches, but on the flip side I'm seeing a lot of mind-blowing T5-type play as well.

When I die and click to spectate it's like I'm flipping a coin to see whether I'm going to witness an exciting end to the match or a comedic clownshow parody of the game.

Two nights ago I saw a guy in a perfectly reasonable Shadowhawk build (AC10, 3x SRM4s, some MLs), but he had all his weapon groups on chainfire and seemingly couldn't hit more than one button at a time. He was chasing a Hunchback around the map literally firing in sequence, like AC10, ML, SRM4, ML, SRM4, SRM4, AC10. Everyone was yelling at him to fire everything, but I don't think he had voip.

Another guy I saw was in a Supernova with 4 ERLLs and some big LRM racks. In all my time playing the game, this may have been the first that I told a guy to stop firing his lasers and just use his missiles because he was wasting heat. I dunno if he thought lasers functioned like lightsabers or if his mouse control was simply that terrible, but he was swiping across mechs as if he was in a swordfight.

Edited by Kubernetes, 19 March 2020 - 10:25 AM.






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