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C.a.s.e Doesn't Prevent Hgr Explosion From Tearing Your St Off?


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#1 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 05:08 AM

Does it work only on ammo explosions?

#2 VonBruinwald

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 05:35 AM

It doesn't stop the HGR/Ammo exploding and doing damage to your ST, it stops excess damage transferring to the CT if that section is destroyed in the process.

#3 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 05:46 AM

Oh! So, it's a terrible waste then....

I was thinking that my Bounty Hunter could benefit from having a CASE beneath the HGR but I heard Betty complaining about the weapon explosion and then it ripped my ST off.

#4 martian

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 06:01 AM

View PostFRAGTAST1C, on 20 March 2020 - 05:08 AM, said:

Does it work only on ammo explosions?

CASE works for all internal explosions, no matter how big those explosions are. Specifically, it contains the internal explosion so that it does not propagate towards the Center Torso.

However, much depends on how many points of internal structure you have left.

Check this example:
FNR-5 Fafnir has HGR in its side torso and that side torso has 42 points of internal structure. Okay. HGR explosion means 25 points of internal damage.
Thus there are two possible scenarios (for simplicty we will talk only about the internal structure):
a) Your side torso (without armor) is hit with AC-20 round that does 20 points of damage and crits your HGR.
So the maths is 42 (pristine structure) - 20 (AC-20 damage applied to structure) - 25 (HGR internal explosion) = -3
You have lost all you side torso structure, the entire side torso AND the attached arm.

b ) Your side torso (without armor) is hit with AC-2 round that does 2 points of damage and crits your HGR.
So the maths is 42 (pristine structure) - 2 (AC-2 damage applied to structure) - 25 (HGR internal explosion) = +15
You still have 15 points of your side torso structure, the entire side torso AND the attached arm.

EDIT.
This is how it "should" work, but with MWO you can never be sure.

Edited by martian, 20 March 2020 - 06:05 AM.


#5 RickySpanish

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 06:04 AM

View PostFRAGTAST1C, on 20 March 2020 - 05:46 AM, said:

Oh! So, it's a terrible waste then....

I was thinking that my Bounty Hunter could benefit from having a CASE beneath the HGR but I heard Betty complaining about the weapon explosion and then it ripped my ST off.


Yeah it's a bit of a waste, I imagine it might be more useful with TT rules.

#6 Sniper09121986

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 06:08 AM

View PostFRAGTAST1C, on 20 March 2020 - 05:46 AM, said:

Oh! So, it's a terrible waste then....

I was thinking that my Bounty Hunter could benefit from having a CASE beneath the HGR but I heard Betty complaining about the weapon explosion and then it ripped my ST off.


CASE is pretty much a must in heavy cheese builds since they fit only in torsi. You have lost only one torso and an arm, but you could have easily been blasted all the way to main menu. I figure your MAD did not have much weaponry left in that case, but if it was a Fafnir, Mauler or Sleipnir with double heavy cheese, you would still stay combat capable.

#7 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 06:13 AM

The thing is, my Bounty Hunter runs a HGR with 5t of ammo and 6 MLs powered by a STD 280 engine. It has enough DHS to never even come close to overheating despite repeated use of the MLs and on top of that, most of my armour is intact. This CASE weighs 0.5t and if it's such a terrible waste, then I might as well see about optimizing this build by upping the engine some way or even use 7 MLs and eating the ghost heat.

#8 martian

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 06:16 AM

View PostFRAGTAST1C, on 20 March 2020 - 06:13 AM, said:

The thing is, my Bounty Hunter runs a HGR with 5t of ammo and 6 MLs powered by a STD 280 engine. It has enough DHS to never even come close to overheating despite repeated use of the MLs and on top of that, most of my armour is intact. This CASE weighs 0.5t and if it's such a terrible waste, then I might as well see about optimizing this build by upping the engine some way or even use 7 MLs and eating the ghost heat.


What you would need is CASE II.

Unfortunately, it is not implemented in MWO and probably it never will be.

#9 VonBruinwald

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 06:22 AM

View PostFRAGTAST1C, on 20 March 2020 - 05:46 AM, said:

Oh! So, it's a terrible waste then....

I was thinking that my Bounty Hunter could benefit from having a CASE beneath the HGR but I heard Betty complaining about the weapon explosion and then it ripped my ST off.


It has a few niche uses, depending on your build half a 'mech is still better than no 'mech. Heavy Gauss Hunchie and such.

#10 DrtyDshSoap

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 06:33 AM

I never use case. Waste of tonnage.

#11 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 07:55 AM

Yeah, I'll just remove it and see how 7 ML ghost heat feels in this cold mech. Else, I'll put a JJ or something.

#12 AncientRaig

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 10:40 AM

CASE is a lot more useful on tabletop where the crit chances are higher, and it's absolutely mandatory if you're playing an extended campaign game because it means that an ammo explosion won't destroy your mech and potentially kill your character. In MWO they lowered the crit chances for everything to the point where it's nearly impossible to have happen, and they changed how ammo explosions work so you have to first get a crit on the ammo, and then roll rng dice to see if the ammo cooks off or is simply unusable. I'm not sure what the numbers are, but the .5 ton will probably be better spent elsewhere in the majority of the matches you play.

#13 Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 11:01 AM

in MWO: the HGR is maybe the cornercase (ha!) where CASE might, and I stress that,
might be useful. even there, it's questionable at best.

IMO, it's best used when -not- used.
on the BountyHunter, I'd rather go for a AMS or TC instead, if you got everything else where you want it.
(have to look it up, but I think mine runs 6ML, HGR and TC, and a flamer for LOLs).
a fun ride in QP, can't really take it to FW, though.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 20 March 2020 - 11:02 AM.


#14 martian

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 12:04 PM

View PostAncientRaig, on 20 March 2020 - 10:40 AM, said:

CASE is a lot more useful on tabletop where the crit chances are higher, and it's absolutely mandatory if you're playing an extended campaign game because it means that an ammo explosion won't destroy your mech and potentially kill your character.

I agree with the first part of your post.

View PostAncientRaig, on 20 March 2020 - 10:40 AM, said:

In MWO they lowered the crit chances for everything to the point where it's nearly impossible to have happen, and they changed how ammo explosions work so you have to first get a crit on the ammo, and then roll rng dice to see if the ammo cooks off or is simply unusable. I'm not sure what the numbers are, but the .5 ton will probably be better spent elsewhere in the majority of the matches you play.


Personally I use C.A.S.E. on one or two of my 'Mechs - on Orion, for example. My typical Orion builds need a lot of ammo. After succumbing to ammo explosions a few times, I decided to use C.A.S.E. in combination with standard engine. Now it is much better: I can lose the right torso with Autocannon, but fight with missiles and lasers, or I can lose the left torso with missiles and fight with Autocannon and lasers.

I prefer keeping 2/3 of my 'Mech alive and kicking before being dead.

Even with a damaged 'Mech I can still fight, spot, launch UAV or use Artillery Strike.

Some people might disagree with my design choice, but I am okay with it.

#15 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 12:26 PM

View PostFRAGTAST1C, on 20 March 2020 - 06:13 AM, said:

This CASE weighs 0.5t and if it's such a terrible waste ...

Its a waste on your Marauder because 'whatcha gonna do with those 4 medium lasers' when you lose that HGR torso. However, on a mech like a Fafnir/Annihilator, not taking damage into the CT when your side goes pop might be crucial. Because even half an Annihilator is about as much firepower as your entire Marauder.

Case is for the most part indeed a waste, because for starters it does nothing for LFE/XL builds and those are a vast majority. Downgrading to a STD engine for the sake of more survivability with Case is also pointless as any potential benefit is far outweighted by losses of speed/firepower/cooling. But it does have its uses on a STD engine dedicated builds, mostly HGR mechs or some sort of Stealth Gauss shenenegans.

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 20 March 2020 - 12:27 PM.


#16 DrtyDshSoap

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 05:30 PM

View PostFRAGTAST1C, on 20 March 2020 - 07:55 AM, said:

Yeah, I'll just remove it and see how 7 ML ghost heat feels in this cold mech. Else, I'll put a JJ or something.
i mean you could or just use two heat sinks.

What's the build?

#17 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 07:10 PM

I've removed the CASE and this is what it looks like

BOUNTY HUNTER II

#18 DrtyDshSoap

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 07:14 PM

View PostFRAGTAST1C, on 20 March 2020 - 07:10 PM, said:

I've removed the CASE and this is what it looks like

BOUNTY HUNTER II

Im on my phone but i think i can give you a build that's a little better if you want to experiment. I have a similar marauder

Give me an hour or two, I'll be home from work

Edited by DrtyDshSoap, 20 March 2020 - 07:14 PM.


#19 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 07:16 PM

Cheers.

#20 justcallme A S H

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 07:47 PM

View PostFRAGTAST1C, on 20 March 2020 - 05:46 AM, said:

Oh! So, it's a terrible waste then....

I was thinking that my Bounty Hunter could benefit from having a CASE beneath the HGR but I heard Betty complaining about the weapon explosion and then it ripped my ST off.



It is a waste in EVERY situation.

NEVER use CASE.





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