18 replies to this topic

[Jag Hiroshi]

I'm comparatively new to this game, only started playing a couple of months back.

I really enjoyed it up until the last patch. Now I'm playing 10+ games straight without a win and finding it pretty depressing as I experience roflstomp after roflstomp.

I'm guessing this new MM arrangement is for the long term base, and new players be damned? That journey back down the ranks is the antithesis of fun gameplay - why would anyone hang around to experience it?

[VileFalcon]

Welcome to the MWO community!

The point you make is a fair observation.

For every player that rises up from the starting point of Tier 3, there will be another that is descending down. I wonder if starting everyone at Tier 5 would have been better, or would that have upset more players?

Edited by VileFalcon, 03 July 2020 - 01:59 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

If you're judging by your win ratio nothing has really changed. The match maker isn't putting you on a bad team more than last patch.

If you're talking about the quality of the game then that's a different story. You will have to wait until tiers balance out to see what we get.

If you're talking about your own person performance I see you run a lot of lights. Because you're playing with seasoned players for next few weeks, you will find they can killed lights very quickly compared to lower tiers.
If you like light game play look into fast mediums like the assassin.

Over all give it a month it will balance out.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 03 July 2020 - 03:22 AM.

[DarkFhoenix]

Sometimes we lose ten games in a row . Thats life .

[VonBruinwald]

VileFalcon, on 03 July 2020 - 01:58 AM, said:

I wonder if starting everyone at Tier 5 would have been better, or would that have upset more players?

A better option would have been to initially move T5 players up to T4 and T1 players down to T2. So they're distributed across T2>T4.

Same effect (condensed tiers for intial seeding) but the MM would have a chance of creating better balanced matches.

[Bud Crue]

Anybody reach T5 yet?

Lots of good players have already posted their T1 achievements in 50 games or whatever. But I don't think bad players are, or can, drop to T5 as fast. So, if the good players are all rising to T1 and the rest of us stay at T3 for an extended period, the result is that we will all still be playing against the top level players, just like we were when everybody was T1. I think for the new players, they either need to start in T5 or Paul needs to increase the extent ones PSR can drop in a bad loss so folks can get down there more quickly.

[UnofficialOperator]

VonBruinwald, on 03 July 2020 - 03:44 AM, said:

A better option would have been to initially move T5 players up to T4 and T1 players down to T2. So they're distributed across T2>T4.

Same effect (condensed tiers for intial seeding) but the MM would have a chance of creating better balanced matches.

Bud Crue, on 03 July 2020 - 04:04 AM, said:

Anybody reach T5 yet?

Lots of good players have already posted their T1 achievements in 50 games or whatever. But I don't think bad players are, or can, drop to T5 as fast. So, if the good players are all rising to T1 and the rest of us stay at T3 for an extended period, the result is that we will all still be playing against the top level players, just like we were when everybody was T1. I think for the new players, they either need to start in T5 or Paul needs to increase the extent ones PSR can drop in a bad loss so folks can get down there more quickly.

Yeah I think it would be better to all start from T5 though. Its easy enough to move up tiers for those who tryhard, around 40-50 games per tier at a leisurely pace. I think those who are supposed to be T5 would be punching bags for a while and that can't be fun.

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 03 July 2020 - 04:23 AM.

[OneTeamPlayer]

Bud Crue, on 03 July 2020 - 04:04 AM, said:

Anybody reach T5 yet?

Lots of good players have already posted their T1 achievements in 50 games or whatever.

Lots of people playing on teams in a queue designed for solo play are posting their T1 "achievements" in 50 games, yes.

I've seen a few people hit T1 legit solo, but most people who are at T1 with a low game count are playing in a group which, in my opinion, if you are in a group in this environment one has no excuse for not making T1 and quickly.

[Bud Crue]

OneTeamPlayer, on 03 July 2020 - 04:19 AM, said:

Lots of people playing on teams in a queue designed for solo play are posting their T1 "achievements" in 50 games, yes.

I've seen a few people hit T1 legit solo, but most people who are at T1 with a low game count are playing in a group which, in my opinion, if you are in a group in this environment one has no excuse for not making T1 and quickly.

Winning as a teams is a whole different issue than what I am trying to get at here.

New players (in a team or not) are still most likely going to suffer losses as they get familiar with the game. Because they are starting at T3, they are going to be going up against T1 players (regardless of how the T1 players got to T1). Worse, the system as it is, is giving people way to much PSR gain on a loss. So the new/bad players are going to be stuck playing against the T1 players, and everyone else, likely for a fairly extended period. Plus if it takes a long time to get T5 populated, even if folks do get down there, there will be no one for the MM to put them up against, so the valves will have to be opened up, and they will then be playing against far better players once again. I suspect that for most such players, this won't be a fun experience, and its going to drive them away from playing.

Unless the system is changed to allow bad players to drop PSR faster, and/or new players allowed to start in T5, I think this is going to be pretty un-fun time for a lot of folks.

[ShiverMeRivets]

Losing 10 games in a row should be very rare even if your WLR is below 1 (unless really really low which means you are poison to your team). The fact that it does happen more frequently than statistically expected means that there is a correlation between your last match and the next one.

To break this correlation and reduce probability of losing streaks you should:
1. If you died early, quit the match early and queue again with a different mech. If you waited till the end of the match, wait before queueing again.
2. Queue with a mech from a different weight class than the one you lost with in the previous match.

The purpose is to prevent the match maker from teaming you with the same people as in the previous losing game - something that the MM tends to do when you immediately queue again with the same mech at the end of a losing match.

[Daddy Grogg]

I have been playing less then a month and pre-reset, it was very fun. Still lost more than I won but not by much and was moving up slowly. So while I enjoyed the game I am not invested, other than the steam sale (still pissed about the timing on that one). As players climb to the top, will players drop naturally? If a comp group takes fifty matches to get to tier 1 will it take me fifty stomps to reach tier 5? No, it will take far more. If I draw a team with outstanding players/team I will win, which slows my negative progress. Being on either side of a uneven match is not fun. More than that If I walk away and let the system settle I will return to find myself tier 3. Nothing has been solved. From my limited experience, this is was an outstanding game with a great community but it is not worth losing hundred plus match (weeks of pain) to return some semblance of fun. The reset needs to speed placement or I firmly believe most new or low skill players will walk away.

Edited by Daddy Grogg, 03 July 2020 - 05:30 AM.

[Nightbird]

Things will get better after you losing 50 games in a row. Unfortunately, there is no other way, it's how the new PSR is designed. Since you start in Tier 3 as a newbie, you will get matched against Tier 1 players for all matches until you drop to T4. This is only during high queue times. In mid queue times, you have to drop to T5. In low queue times, all tiers play all tiers.

Edited by Nightbird, 03 July 2020 - 05:58 AM.

[Jman5]

It's just a rough time right now until things get sorted. It would probably be better for you if you held off a week until a lot of those competitive types move into tier 1.

Edited by Jman5, 03 July 2020 - 05:35 AM.

[Daddy Grogg]

Nightbird, on 03 July 2020 - 05:30 AM, said:

Things will get better after you losing 50 games in a row. Unfortunately, there is no other way, it's how the new PSR is designed.

That's the problem, weeks of pain not going to happen. I struggled down to tier 4 and still getting stomped. Its not the loss that bothers me. Its the nature of it. If I lost before I could at least feel that I contributed now just defeat, nothing added.

Jman5, on 03 July 2020 - 05:35 AM, said:

It's just a rough time right now until things get sorted. It would probably be better for you if you held off a week until a lot of those competitive types move into tier 1.

Again, great community and great game but I am truly a tier 5 player and I'm ok with that (potato army and all). Progress downward need to be easier of at least quicker, this is truly painful.

Edited by Daddy Grogg, 03 July 2020 - 05:44 AM.

[RJF Volkodav]

The biggest mistake PGI made with this was not seeding people by their performance at the beginning. Or at least send everyone at T5. Its seems easier to climb up than to fall down tiers. I would recommend PGI to do that but they would probably not listen as usual until angry wave appear here. So, feel free to bomb support with the suggestions .

[Knight Captain Morgan]

Monkey Lover, on 03 July 2020 - 03:15 AM, said:

If you're talking about the quality of the game then that's a different story. You will have to wait until tiers balance out to see what we get.

only *IF* the matchmaker will actually separate the tiers, but that's a big if since It doesn't even separate by weight classes anymore. It might even keep all valves open all the time when the competitive premade farm teams start B**&hing about having to face each other again, like they did when they drove all the solos out of faction play.

Edited by Knight Captain Morgan, 03 July 2020 - 06:45 AM.

[Grus]

"WHAT'S IN THIS MM FOR NEW PLAYERS"

You wont have to worry about your salt intake for a while...

They really should have put everyone to t5.

[RickySpanish]

Usually you would not see your tier until after you have played a series of placement matches which have a great impact on your ranking. That way you would not see yourself "drop" ranks if your current skill indicates that t4 or t5 is where you belong for now, you'd also not suffer as many defeats as your rank would change more quickly. However even with that in place, are there enough players in the game to sort them into matches where everyone is at a compareable skill level? I don't know about that, I've not had time to play for a while. As for why everyone sees their rank immediately, I don't think the developers have much time budget to work on MWO anymore.

[Tarl Cabot]

Nightbird, on 03 July 2020 - 05:30 AM, said:

Things will get better after you losing 50 games in a row. Unfortunately, there is no other way, it's how the new PSR is designed. Since you start in Tier 3 as a newbie, you will get matched against Tier 1 players for all matches until you drop to T4. This is only during high queue times. In mid queue times, you have to drop to T5. In low queue times, all tiers play all tiers.

I had to double check that. Here we thought PGI ignorance in filtering all current Tier 5 players into Tier 3, but damn it, new accounts also start in Tier 3. That is extremely F-U. I remember when Tier/PSR system went live with Steam, and initially new players started out in Tier 4 then PGI changed it to Tier 5 a few days later.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 03 July 2020 - 11:48 AM.