19 replies to this topic

[Cipher2012]

The current state of match making is a joke to say the least. I ran the over all numbers in my last match. While there is only a 40 ton difference the group complement is very uneven. Group A weighed in at 695 tons with 5 assaults,1 heavy, 1 medium, and 5 lights. Group B weighed in at 655 tons with 2 assault, 1 heavy, 6 mediums, and 3 lights. Now which group do you think won? GROUP A of course ,because half their team made up 3/4 of their armor. This has happened increasingly since the group que was merged with solo. Now we add PSR reset and new match score method to the mix = good player being drug down by bad team comp.

It would be supremely better to wait an extra minute or two, to get a more balanced match of similar comprised drops. Not one side having a clear armor/firepower advantage, due to PGI wanting games to kick off faster. You will never see an accurate rating on PSR due to this huge flaw in the current system.

PGI either needs to remove groups from the Que forcing them to play factions, adjust minimum tonnage requirements of 3 and 4 man groups, OR reduce group size to two man groups. Whatever the case may be the system as it stands is not allowing good gameplay 90% of the time for some people who are not pros. You can't force teams to communicate and the group ques have only made this worse with 4 mans doing their own thing 65% of the time and communicating in a 3rd party Voip system.

Another huge flaw is allowing groups to group drop by queing at the same time and allowing potential 6 mans to be on one team. IF they are in a group and NOT solo queing they should never be allowed to be paired with others of the same unit on the same team.

Something is going to have to be changed or this game will be virtually dead by Christmas.

[kapinga]

i totally agree. i want to take a break and let it settle a bit, but im afraid when i come back , there wont be much of a game unless they fix this.

[General Solo]

Matchmaking is about balance
Throw groups into a que with a bunch of soloes is not balance
No MM can fix this imo

[GreyTmbrWolf]

Holy smokes is matchmaker ever F***'n broke. Thanks for making me not want to play your ****** azz games. you have proved again that you do not know how to listen to the community and just try to do what you think is right.

just about every match I have played tonight has had 6 assualt, 1 light 2 med, and 3 hvys. That is very fair tonnage match.

Since I know you dont care, I will say goodbye and good job at forcing new players out!

[TheRealTommo]

I've never lost this many matches in the years I've been playing. It's totally unbalanced = No fun. Had some friends recently start playing. After this they basically quit. GG PGI.

Edited by TheRealTommo, 12 July 2020 - 11:18 PM.

[Biomechtric]

GreyTmbrWolf, on 11 July 2020 - 07:04 PM, said:

Holy smokes is matchmaker ever F***'n broke. Thanks for making me not want to play your ****** azz games. you have proved again that you do not know how to listen to the community and just try to do what you think is right.

just about every match I have played tonight has had 6 assualt, 1 light 2 med, and 3 hvys. That is very fair tonnage match.

Since I know you dont care, I will say goodbye and good job at forcing new players out!

I just want to throw this out there. Have you considered that there simply might not have been people playing the lights & mediums for the matchmaker to choose from? Lights are the least played class & assaults & heavy's the most played & this is the way it has been for years I'm afraid.
Now add to this that players are mistakenly thinking that PSR is something to grind & you have a recipe for a mini Lurmageddon & generally bad play.
Matches will be tough until the new PSR system has settled in, I've heard it's taking a very good player a minimum of 100 matches to get back to T1 so expect the same the other way too.
Your match quality should improve as(in theory) you will be up against those of the same skill level as yourself, this means more cbills & XP for you as well.
Is the new system going to work? Some say it will, some say it won't so the only thing to do is give it some time to see what happens & then work from there.

[QuePan]

people playing at the Higher tier levels would say "that tonnage matters not , number of assaults matters not, a good player can wreck a assaults in a heavy or a medium mech . in other words " GIT GUD" " but i say that there is a small percentage of players that this works for . outside of matching player skill the MM needs to also balance tonnage which it really hasn't for a while ,
In this game maneuverability is key and having armor is also key to staying in the fight longer , how hard can it be to have the matchmaker take mechs and balance out the teams for tonnage ? moving a assault or 2 to a team , moving a light or medium to take there place ECT , you shouldnt see a composition of 6 to 2 in either assault or light class mechs , there shouldnt be a medium mechs worth of tonnage discrepancy in matches 5 to 15 tons would be acceptable after that is like having a additional mech on the field with firepower and armor

[General Solo]

Think the saying "Tonnage matter not" apply s when you got a skill gap the size of your cod going for ya.
Like in soup queue with open valves and loose Tier gap settings.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 21 July 2020 - 03:03 PM.

[Kingdom Come]

I have been playing this game since beta. I mostly do solo play in quick que. Before the tier reset, I experienced just above 50:50 in the win/loss stats respectively. Now that the tier is reset and has had a chance to mature in August, I have noticed my win/loss percentage is now negative and sits at 0.8%. My first thought is my skills are declining. However, even though I lost my last 4 matches, my pilot rating went up each time. I am currently sitting in the middle of Tier 1 with a 0.8% win record for the month of August with over a 100 games played. Part of me thinks I liked it better when you received a negative skill rating with a loss. The games seemed more balanced. Maybe I am losing because Team play has been added to solo que. Maybe I have hit an unlucky streak, I don’t know. I could be complaining prematurely, but it is something I am going to watch more closely going forward.

[General Solo]

Its not just the reset of PSR
Its the merge which allowed 4 man groups into solo queue.
In case you did not know about it.

[tokumboh]

Kingdom Come, on 19 August 2020 - 11:47 AM, said:

I have been playing this game since beta. I mostly do solo play in quick que. Before the tier reset, I experienced just above 50:50 in the win/loss stats respectively. Now that the tier is reset and has had a chance to mature in August, I have noticed my win/loss percentage is now negative and sits at 0.8%. My first thought is my skills are declining. However, even though I lost my last 4 matches, my pilot rating went up each time. I am currently sitting in the middle of Tier 1 with a 0.8% win record for the month of August with over a 100 games played. Part of me thinks I liked it better when you received a negative skill rating with a loss. The games seemed more balanced. Maybe I am losing because Team play has been added to solo que. Maybe I have hit an unlucky streak, I don’t know. I could be complaining prematurely, but it is something I am going to watch more closely going forward.

OZHomerOZ, on 19 August 2020 - 04:37 PM, said:

Its not just the reset of PSR
Its the merge which allowed 4 man groups into solo queue.
In case you did not know about it.

A couple of things your skill rating should be largely independent of the W/L ratio indeed the PSR pretty much dictated by how well you do in each agme by march score compare to your team and compared to the match as a whole so you could play well and still lose and because you have either been skilful or lucky you could stil have your rating go up

I think that is a fair system

I think the whole group queue issue actually is because the player population is very low so it makes for ****** matches. it atter not much how good the match maker is if there is no one to play against. I have noticed that off peak hours the games are pretty shocking at times with multiple stomps I admit I am only coming back into the game after time off but I find in peak hours my score goes up in off peak hours I am pitched with very good players and my score goes down even if I win

That the game has not move much in te two years I've been away says a lot and that last season only 17K players played 10 games or moore in a month and interestingly only 1625 players played more than 10 games a day for the whole month (300 total games) the median is around 50 matches a month which basically equates to less than 2 matches a day

considering that I can get maybe 5 matches in an hours that means the median is spending just 10 hours a month playing the game basically less than which kind of is about 2.4 hours on a weekend and remember of the 17K players half play less than this so I bet that on a peak weekend period you get around 2000 players max and on a week night at best you get a 1000 players and I would think the numbers get as low as 100 players most non peak times

I don't think that is enough players for any sort of god match making if you ask me. No match making system can fix a lack of population, that is a game design and marketing issue

So I personally think whether there is a mix of groups in the QP queue or not makes little difference to the problem in the grand scheme of things. Would it make a difference? maybe but not as much as you would really notice in my humble opinion

Edited by tokumboh, 20 August 2020 - 11:21 AM.

[Kingdom Come]

Well, I played 10 more games today, lost all 10. I think at this point I have won 2 out of the last 25 or more games. My win percentage is now about 0.7 for the month of August. I have never been this low before. Regardless of the number of players and the quality of players, I have always experienced balanced game play for the most part. My win percentage is usually around 1.0 which seems fair for a solo player. Yes, in the past, I would have a losing streak, but it would be offset by a winning streak. This reset has a different feel to it. I don't know if it is just bad luck or the fact they added groups and solos together. I personally liked it better the other way. Obviously if the losing streak continues, I will be looking for something else to play.

Edited by Kingdom Come, 20 August 2020 - 04:22 PM.

[DANGEROUS]

I dont know... I have found the match quality to be quite good lately! I mean, I love being in the slowest lumbering mech and being totally ditched by the rest of my team, forced to fend for myself against 4+ lights/mediums within minutes of the map start.

its like a dream come true right? Watching as most of your team runs so fast as they almost loop back around just in time to watch the fireworks as your engine goes thermonuclear!

yay!

[EyeMaster]

Kingdom Come, on 20 August 2020 - 04:22 PM, said:

Well, I played 10 more games today, lost all 10. I think at this point I have won 2 out of the last 25 or more games. My win percentage is now about 0.7 for the month of August. I have never been this low before. Regardless of the number of players and the quality of players, I have always experienced balanced game play for the most part. My win percentage is usually around 1.0 which seems fair for a solo player. Yes, in the past, I would have a losing streak, but it would be offset by a winning streak. This reset has a different feel to it. I don't know if it is just bad luck or the fact they added groups and solos together. I personally liked it better the other way. Obviously if the losing streak continues, I will be looking for something else to play.

Same feeling here. I'm losing 9 out of 10 matches and they are almost always lopsided now. losing 12-5 or 12-1 consistently is not a fun experience. I'm not a fan of this patch at all...

[justcallme A S H]

Kingdom Come, on 20 August 2020 - 04:22 PM, said:

Well, I played 10 more games today, lost all 10. I think at this point I have won 2 out of the last 25 or more games. My win percentage is now about 0.7 for the month of August. I have never been this low before. Regardless of the number of players and the quality of players, I have always experienced balanced game play for the most part. My win percentage is usually around 1.0 which seems fair for a solo player. Yes, in the past, I would have a losing streak, but it would be offset by a winning streak. This reset has a different feel to it. I don't know if it is just bad luck or the fact they added groups and solos together. I personally liked it better the other way. Obviously if the losing streak continues, I will be looking for something else to play.

On which account?

Currently the account you are posting with has less than 10 games played which does not line up with what you are saying.

[Tarl Cabot]

EyeMaster, on 20 April 2021 - 07:11 PM, said:

Same feeling here. I'm losing 9 out of 10 matches and they are almost always lopsided now. losing 12-5 or 12-1 consistently is not a fun experience. I'm not a fan of this patch at all...

Your leadership stats actually have you at 174 vs 171 in the W/L column... And several players have been posting about returning back to play, and if they had not played any games between the last 2 PSR reset/reseeding they would have been placed into Tier 5.

MWO have lost lots of players, some good, some bad, some avg for a variety of reasons, some due to PGI lack of endgame in MWO. CW/FP was supposed to be that but PGI dropped the ball so many times on it, it is a ghost of what it could have been.

[DANGEROUS]

I am returning here to update my previous post.

Since the 4/20 community driven weapons balance patch, I have noticed a lot less games devolving into Nascar!

I have also noticed a lot less 12/0 or 0/12 stomps!

MWO has been an absolute blast lately!

[Aedryel]

Cipher2012, on 04 July 2020 - 04:05 PM, said:

It would be supremely better to wait an extra minute or two, to get a more balanced match of similar comprised drops. Not one side having a clear armor/firepower advantage, due to PGI wanting games to kick off faster. You will never see an accurate rating on PSR due to this huge flaw in the current system.

Totally agreed. Winning a match for 12:2 does not bring satisfaction, losing it for 12:2 just makes me wonder why I play this game in the first place. Due to the still dwindling playerbase, groups should be flat forbidden from QP, because one way or an other one teams gets a disproportionate advantage over the other in terms of coordination or skills even.

One would assume Quick Play was meant to create teams entirely from random people in order to even out said differences as much as technically possible.

Winning or losing a match is more times determined by who gets into a premade team than not.

Just my subjective and very possibly biased opinion.

[The Basilisk]

Aedryel, on 15 June 2021 - 08:11 AM, said:

Totally agreed. Winning a match for 12:2 does not bring satisfaction, losing it for 12:2 just makes me wonder why I play this game in the first place. Due to the still dwindling playerbase, groups should be flat forbidden from QP, because one way or an other one teams gets a disproportionate advantage over the other in terms of coordination or skills even.

One would assume Quick Play was meant to create teams entirely from random people in order to even out said differences as much as technically possible.

Winning or losing a match is more times determined by who gets into a premade team than not.

Just my subjective and very possibly biased opinion.

Sorry mate, but since you come with probabilitys and who gets the premium team and stuff here are a bunch of absolutely cripling factors that no matchmaker can fix and that where never better or worse in this game because as diverse as this game is and as many possibilitys as it offers...they can not be accounted for.

-- Player skill (and I do not mean that kind of skill that makes you successfull in repetitively playing the ruling meta superbly together with ppl that too drive meta and against ppl that drive meta in scenarios that utilize pathways on maps that are meta with strategies that are meta...you get my meaning?) I mean ppl that casualy see, analyze adapt and have fun with it
-- praising the map RNGesus right (and the right PC to do so)
-- getting the better build combo in ones team (all hail the RNGesus), there are a couple of extremely toxic build combos and player strats out there that will insta doom your match
-- beeing online when your crowd of players play a playstyle that is your thing
-- hitting the oposite team of some twitch streamer and his crownys
-- getting a bad combo of players with good or bad pings
-- getting haunted by a couple of disconected players at once
-- meeting a bad hitreg oponent
-- getting a bad combination of ppl arguing over ingame voice chat or text chat

The list goes on

Edit: I do not buy the premade argument...you get as many premades that do not or not meaningfully communicate as you get mute or "just chatty only" random players.
I also do not get the 12:2 matches are no fun argument. Several ppl that realy got some experience with gamedesign and some serious ingame skills showed in the past that especially strong skilled ppls matches tend to go that way due to cascading disadvantage one team gets after losing the first member. So...actually the 12:2 matches should be the good ones and drawn out (phyrric Victory?)12:9 matches should be the bad ones.

Edited by The Basilisk, 16 June 2021 - 03:09 AM.

[Aedryel]

The Basilisk, on 16 June 2021 - 02:01 AM, said:

Sorry mate, but since you come with probabilitys and who gets the premium team and stuff here are a bunch of absolutely cripling factors that no matchmaker can fix and that where never better or worse in this game because as diverse as this game is and as many possibilitys as it offers...they can not be accounted for.

-- Player skill (and I do not mean that kind of skill that makes you successfull in repetitively playing the ruling meta superbly together with ppl that too drive meta and against ppl that drive meta in scenarios that utilize pathways on maps that are meta with strategies that are meta...you get my meaning?) I mean ppl that casualy see, analyze adapt and have fun with it
-- praising the map RNGesus right (and the right PC to do so)
-- getting the better build combo in ones team (all hail the RNGesus), there are a couple of extremely toxic build combos and player strats out there that will insta doom your match
-- beeing online when your crowd of players play a playstyle that is your thing
-- hitting the oposite team of some twitch streamer and his crownys
-- getting a bad combo of players with good or bad pings
-- getting haunted by a couple of disconected players at once
-- meeting a bad hitreg oponent
-- getting a bad combination of ppl arguing over ingame voice chat or text chat

The list goes on

Edit: I do not buy the premade argument...you get as many premades that do not or not meaningfully communicate as you get mute or "just chatty only" random players.
I also do not get the 12:2 matches are no fun argument. Several ppl that realy got some experience with gamedesign and some serious ingame skills showed in the past that especially strong skilled ppls matches tend to go that way due to cascading disadvantage one team gets after losing the first member. So...actually the 12:2 matches should be the good ones and drawn out (phyrric Victory?)12:9 matches should be the bad ones.

While your reasoning is not without merit, most factors you've mentioned works both ways over a large enough sample AKA matches, meaning let's say my W/L ratio should be around 1:1 over 100 matches, regardless whether I suck or on a hot streak in a specific match, due to we're talking about averages.

Allowing tight-knit groups in QP is detrimental to this balance (it removes randomness in one aspect, or substitutes a variable with a constant, if you will), as in if it's one-sided (and mostly it is), it's gonna be seal clubbing instead of an evened-out battle, and also there's no way I'll be ever convinced a practically rigged 12:2 or 12:0 match taking less than 5 minutes is more enjoyable than a near-tie where literally the last 2 mechs standing decide the outcome, while all spectating peeps are rooting for them.

Definition of fair play is
"in sport, the fact of playing according to the rules and not having an unfair advantage",
and while I do agree there are many-many factors that can't be helped in MWO due to the exorbitant amount of variables at play and the nearly non-existent playerbase (guess what made many ppl leave MWO, if at it), I'm pretty sure if team "A" has 4-6 regular well-coordinated pilots with pre-defined roles and an agreed upon tactic with specific variants and builds prepared, while team "B" is entirely or mostly random, the former will have a substantial advantage over the latter and that's flat opposing the principle of the patches as of late in the first place.

Yes, map placement, pilot/mech/variant/build roster, DCs, stuff like that can't really be accounted for (for one specific match, although if we're talking about average and we do, that's evened out by a turn of luck), but I'm fairly sure if coordinated groups go toe to toe vs solo peeps, that's by definition unfair.
If a solo player is not keen on grouping up, statistically speaking his odds will be reduced on the long run for the simple fact he will be less often in a coordinated team.

If one's W/L ratio is consistently around or below 0.7 while he DOES contribute to the matches (otherwise would play in a lower Tier), there's something fundamentally f.u.c.k.e.d up, and it's not on them for underperforming.